Thread: BORDER-SHOOTING FUROR UNABATED 2 YEARS LATER

Border News

Border-shooting furor unabated 2 years later (poll inside)

By Pauline Arrillaga

The Associated Press

Tucson, Arizona | Published: 02.17.2007

FABENS, Texas —

The prairie where it all happened is quiet now. A sign rests near a muddy ditch, "Stop Illegal Immigration," left behind by protesters who have visited in homage to two former Border Patrol agents, imprisoned for shooting a drug smuggler in the backside as he sprinted toward Mexico.
It seems almost unimaginable that one moment in this lonely place ignited the furor that rages two years later.

A jury convicted the agents of assault, obstruction of justice and civil-rights violations. A federal judge meted out punishment: 12 years for Jose Alonso Compean; 11 for Ignacio "Nacho" Ramos. As the two men surrendered last month, demonstrators took to the streets shrieking: "What kind of America do we have?"

There have been hateful phone calls to prosecutors, warnings to President Bush from some fellow Republicans in Congress about taking sides with "the American people or … our enemies" — demands for an independent probe and a pardon.

"Commended illegal immigration heroes," one Web site christened the convicted officers, whose supporters are disgusted that the so-called victim — "a doper" — went free, while the agents sit behind bars for "doing their job."

But what happened that February day in 2005 isn't as black and white as the us vs. them spin on the airwaves and the Internet, where facts are fleeting in the ever emotional debate over the nation's borders.

Consider one fact missing from the cyberspace chatter: In the El Paso Border Patrol sector, where Compean and Ramos were assigned, agents have fired their weapons 14 times in the line of duty since 2001. Each of those shootings, except one, was ruled a justifiable use of force, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office in San Antonio — a "good shoot," in Border Patrol parlance.

The exception was the Compean-Ramos case. "They knew it was a bad shoot," a federal prosecutor told jurors at their trial.

This case is different not simply because of the debate it inflamed but, as an Associated Press review of court documents, transcripts and exhibits shows, because of what transpired in a few life-changing moments out on that lonely prairie.

Drug transaction suspected

"Did you guys copy? There's a blue van leaving at 76. Going pretty quick."

It was 1:11 p.m. on Feb. 17, 2005, 30 miles east of El Paso in a hamlet of cotton fields called Fabens.

Agent Compean, a Border Patrol officer for five years, was on the radio calling in some tripped sensors. He alerted his fellow officers that he suspected some sort of drug transaction was under way, and the agents of the Fabens Border Patrol station quickly responded.

Oscar Juarez was in his vehicle not far from the Rio Grande, holding the line against a group of illegal immigrants waiting for just the right moment to cross over from Mexico, he would testify at trial.

Nacho Ramos, a 10-year veteran, was having lunch at the station when he heard the call.

They, and five other agents, responded. Holding the line against illegal immigrants might be their primary job description, agents would testify, but taking down a drug load is an event every officer wants credit for.
Juarez followed the van north into Fabens. He hit his overhead lights, but the van sped up and headed back south toward the border. Ramos joined in the pursuit.

"We got this baby," Juarez radioed at 1:19 p.m.

The van came to a stop at the edge of a steep sewage ditch. Beyond it, facing south, was a slight incline, then a levee road and an open vega, or prairie, about half a football field in length. Beyond the vega: the Rio Grande, then Mexico.

Ramos pulled up behind the van, followed by Juarez. Compean parked his truck on the levee road.

The van driver, Osvaldo Aldrete Davila, got out and ran for the canal, Mexico in his sights.

"Parate! Parate!" Compean shouted, Spanish for "stop."

Compean pointed his shotgun at Aldrete. The driver raised his hands; they were empty, Compean, Juarez and Aldrete would all agree in statements to investigators and in court testimony. At least two men — Aldrete and Compean — reported hearing another agent say, "Hit him." Compean swung his weapon, Juarez testified, but lost his balance and fell into the ditch, dropping his shotgun. Aldrete took off, headed for Mexico.
The stories diverge from there.

Juarez testified that he was walking toward the van when he heard shooting, turned and saw Compean firing his handgun. Compean reloaded, he testified, fired a few more shots and then dashed into the vega.

Contradicting that, Compean insisted he recovered from his fall and managed to tackle Aldrete, who threw dirt in his face and took off running again. Compean said he started shooting because he thought he saw something "black, shiny" in the suspect's hand. Testimony revealed that Compean fired about 14 times.

Ramos testified that he heard gunfire, ran into the vega and saw Compean on the ground. He fired once, he said, because "I believed I saw a gun."

Compean and Ramos walked back toward the drainage ditch. Some 743 pounds of marijuana were discovered inside the van.

Aldrete testified that he never had any gun or anything "shiny" in his hands. More striking were the agents' own conflicting stories and actions — and the trial testimony of other Border Patrol officers.

In a written statement, Compean said Ramos was "standing next to me" when Ramos took the final shot. At trial, Compean testified that he was on one knee and getting to his feet when Ramos ran by him and fired, but he said he didn't see Ramos shoot.

In his statement, Compean said he and Ramos saw Aldrete climbing out of the Rio Grande into Mexico and he "looked like he was limping." He also acknowledged, "I think Nacho might have hit him." At trial Ramos testified, "I didn't see him limping."

Border Patrol policy requires that all weapon discharges be reported verbally to a supervisor within an hour. Once an agent-involved shooting is reported, a sector evidence team is sent to investigate to allow supervisors to determine whether the shooting was justified. The FBI is called. The fired weapon is held for examination.

None of this occurred that day.

Neither Compean nor Ramos reported the shooting. Instead, Compean admitted that he picked up and disposed of his spent bullet casings. Compean also failed to mention the gunfire in his drug seizure report, stating only: "The driver was able to abscond back to Mexico."

Compean did tell at least two other agents that he fired at the driver. One was Art Vasquez, who testified that he found, at Compean's request, five other shell casings — and threw them into the drainage ditch.
"So you destroyed the scene for someone that you worked with?" prosecutor Debra Kanof asked him at trial.

"Yes, ma'am."
Vasquez and the other agents and supervisors on the scene all testified that neither Compean nor Ramos ever told them that the suspect had something that looked like a gun.

Border Patrol brass in El Paso and investigators at the Department of Homeland Security's Office of Inspector General learned of the shooting two weeks later from an agent in Arizona. His mother-in-law had received a call from her childhood friend, Aldrete's mother, whose son was claiming he'd been shot by the Border Patrol.
Both mothers wondered: Could it be true?

Appeals planned

Retired Border Patrol agent David Ham, a former assistant chief in El Paso, trekked out to the shooting scene not long ago. He wanted to see it for himself as the national outrage grew. "They're picking the wrong guys to make heroes," he said.

The public's image of the border — a stereotype framed by "insecurities and anxiety" — partly explains support for the agents, said Howard Campbell, a cultural anthropologist at the University of Texas at El Paso.
"They think this is just one emblematic case of the border being out of control," he said. "That's the imagery. … That overrides the facts."
Ramos' lawyer said the case, instead, represents a contradiction between "the reality on the riverbank and the bureaucracy of regulations."

"They're out there in life-and-death situations, and then when something happens — just to hell with them?" said attorney Mary Stillinger.

Appeals are planned, and calls for a presidential pardon have intensified after reports that Ramos was beaten in prison. A primary source of contention is the 10-year statutory sentence the agents received on one charge.

Two jurors also signed affidavits on behalf of the defense, saying they did not think Ramos and Compean were guilty of some counts on which they were convicted.

Another juror, who asked to be identified only as Bob G., told the AP he stands by his decision at trial.

"They were clearly guilty," he said. "This thing, 'They were just doing their job.' Well, what kind of job were they doing?"

It's true, that until that day, the agents had been productive employees, said Luis Barker, retired chief of the El Paso Border Patrol sector and the agents' former boss.

It's also true that the smuggler, whose urethra was severed in the shooting, was given immunity for his actions that day in exchange for his testimony. He has filed a $5 million claim with the government.

Barker understands how some might see that as a cruel twist of fate.
"But the rule of law still applies," he said. "If this guy's running away and he's shot in the butt, then he's obviously not a threat. OK, 'Well, I thought he had something in his hand.' Then why didn't you tell that supervisor?
"The long and short of it is, the system worked," Barker said, "as it should have."

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/border/169670

Johnny Sutton

Is a traitor and a criminal
A hit man workin for Mexican thieves
He'll target any man
He'll make any citizens family grieve

He is a kidnapper and legal weasel
He has openly chosen the enemy's side
He is that dirt bag combination of
Filthy manipulation and brazen pride

He needs to be targeted for
The good men he's put in his sights
He needs to be taken out
For going against what's good and right

He uses words as weapons
He is a betrayer a liar and a hack
He by his persecution prosecutions
Stabs individuals and this nation

In the back



Neils
9:30 am
02/17/2007
*
nothing of any
negative intent
is meant toward any
real............weasels
*
transcribed this time
9:34 am
02/17/2007


N......again

Look at the last name of the person writing this article, enuf said!

Behind the debate: What really happened in border shooting and agents' convictions?

By: PAULINE ARRILLAGA - Staff Writer ??????

FABENS, Texas ---- The prairie where it all happened is quiet now, but for the occasional U.S. Border Patrol vehicle passing by. A sign rests near a muddy ditch, "Stop Illegal Immigration," left behind by protesters who have visited in homage to two ex-agents, imprisoned for shooting a drug smuggler in the backside as he sprinted toward Mexico.

It seems almost unimaginable that one moment in this lonely place ignited the furor that rages still ---- from the blogosphere to Congress ---- two years later.

Add Your Comments or Letter to the Editor

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/02 ... ogcomments

Originally Posted by nittygritty

Look at the last name of the person writing this article, enuf said!

Racial Justice Fellows, 2005-2006

Pauline Arrillaga
National Writer
Associated Press

Pauline Arrillaga is a national writer for The Associated Press. Since joining the AP in 1992, she has covered politics, the space program and Texas' death row, later focusing her attention on border-related issues such as immigration, drug trafficking and the growing influence of Hispanic migrants in America. As a national writer, Arrillaga parachutes in to major news events to find the human stories behind the news, and also works to develop long-term narrative pieces. In 2002, Arrillaga was awarded the Associated Press Managing Editors' feature writing prize for a three-part narrative about a Phoenix police officer whose face was severely burned and his quest to recover. In 2005, she won the Livingston Award for Young Journalists in local reporting for a serial narrative examining the widespread smuggling of humans into the country. Arrillaga, 34, graduated with honors from The University of North Texas with a bachelor's degree in journalism.

http://www.justicejournalism.org/fellow ... llaga.html

Comments On This Story

Note: Comments reflect the views of readers and not necessarily those of the North County Times or its staff.

Suzette wrote on February 18, 2007 12:12 AM:"I think those two agents are right where they belong..behind bars. They are not above the law. They lied, and disposed of evidence those are not the actions of innocent men! I love what the lead prosecuter said in her closing argument "We're not going to throw away the United States Constitution," We're not going to wad it up and put it in the trash can because Osvaldo was transporting marijuana that day. Because if we do that, then we have no expectation of living in a free society." AWESOME!!! She is so right on because the rule of law must apply to all of us. I hope that they make it through their sentences and after they have paid their debt to society will come out of prison and be productive good citizens. The justice system did work in this case. "

Jay wrote on February 18, 2007 12:55 AM:"Corrupt cops in America? Say it ain't so! The Border Patrol has had serious personel problems ever since they went on an "affirmative action" type hiring spree some years ago that emphasized the hiring of often underqualified Hispanic-Americans. Be that as it is, cops will ALWAYS lie about shooting and even killing under the cloak of aurhority. That what cops do."

L in C wrote on February 18, 2007 2:05 AM:""Because if we do that, then we have no expectation of living in a free society." Well people we do not live in a free society anymore. Look around and you will see everywhere the selling out of America by politicians and others in favorable positions. Everyone who testified lied, perjured themselves in this case and most were fired. Washington now caters to Mexico. Banks cater to illegals more then they do to the citizens of this country. Evrything is going backwards in this country in regards to how it once was. War has changed. Now you are to be courteous to the enemy even as he does his best to destroy you. God is omitted now in many aspects of life including school. We are dying a slow death and government is so out of it they cant see what their actions are doing. They are ignorant to their ignorance. Proud to be an American? Me? Yes!!! Proud of who runs this country and those who are suposed to be for the people........NOT AT ALL!!! "

Beckyal wrote on February 18, 2007 4:19 AM:"The government has these men in a position where nothing could be done except for a presidential pardon. These men don't need a pardon. The verdict needs to be overturned completely and they need to be freed. Sutton, Bush and other members within the DOJ need to be in jail for working with the Mexican government. Bush will go down as the president who destroyed America and sold out Americans. Rove needs to rethink the president's historical value. Also in this case, Bush does not deserve a Presidential library, we the people need the money to pay for all the Mexican friends of Bush's/"

Skip wrote on February 18, 2007 4:20 AM:"The government prosecuted Ramos and Compean criminally for acts that called only for an administrative reprimand, based the case on the testimony of an admitted drug smuggler brought back from Mexico and induced to testify by a grant of immunity, withheld crucial evidence from the jury, used the wrong law (that carries a mandatory additional 10-year sentence) and now won't release the transcript of the trial without which the border guards cannot appeal. The smuggler's reward for his testimony was immunity, U.S. medical treatment and a government-issued border pass."

Skip wrote on February 18, 2007 4:21 AM:"The prosecutor, U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, claims Ramos shot an unarmed drug smuggler in the rear end as he was running away. But the ballistics report failed to prove the bullet came from Ramos' gun, and the medical report showed that the bullet entered the smuggler's buttock on his side at an angle consistent with Ramos' contention that the smuggler was turning around with what looked like a weapon in his hand. Ramos and Compean didn't believe they wounded the smuggler because he kept running and escaped across the border into a waiting vehicle. The doctor's description of the trajectory of the bullet he removed from the smuggler's body casts doubt on the whole assumption that his wound came from shots fired by the border guards."

nittygritty wrote on February 18, 2007 5:10 AM:"A fence and physical barrier would have prevented this entire incident, and would increase public safety on both sides of the border."

Eclipse wrote on February 18, 2007 5:49 AM:"Border Patrol needs Amnesty : Bush has argued repeatedly that we need a Guest worker program to reduce the pressure on our border. This guest worker program would involve an amnesty for the illegal immigrants already here and a large increase in the number of people who can come into the country with work visa's. He calls them guest worker's but since almost none of them will ever leave they are not really guests. This completely caves in on enforcing the nations immigration laws. It not only rewards criminals who have already broken these laws it also throws open the gates so that no one has to climb over the new fence and break them in the future. Bush is the reason the Border Patrol cannot control the border. He has repeatedly cut funds earmarked to increase the number of border agents. He is intentionally leaving the border undermanned then telling the public it cannot be defended."

Beckyal wrote on February 18, 2007 5:50 AM:"The border patrol has had their hands tied for the last 20 years due to our Presidents and politicans. It is time that we let them do their job without worrying that the US attorneys are going to put them in jail."

Neese wrote on February 18, 2007 6:02 AM:"Something is seriously wrong with our country when things like this are allowed to happen. I completetly understand those old western movies now, where somebody breaks the good guys out of jail. Where is Clint Eastwood when we need him? I'd love for him to make our day!"

Kate wrote on February 18, 2007 6:03 AM:"Border patrol-gate. Plame-CIA-gate. Iraq-gate. NAU-gate. Mexican illegal invasion-gate. The list is unending."

nittygritty wrote on February 18, 2007 6:05 AM:"I heard Lou say tonight the Justice dept was making a move to prevent the agents from getting out on bond to wait for their appeal! This is getting more and more insane, I tell you, it goes all the way to the top, georgie boy himself is involved in these shennagians, just hide and watch! I said it before and I will say it again, I think before this is all over it will bring down the house, the white house that is! "

Larry wrote on February 18, 2007 6:06 AM:"Constitutional rights for an illegal trespassing drug smuggler? Give us all a break. A BIG Break. I live on the Arizona border and have a pretty good insight in to what Agents encounter daily. They do a great job while being assaulted, shot at, having rocks thrown at them across the border, are victims of smugglers trying to drown them in the Colorado River, and on and on. Had this smuggler been apprehended he would have had his hands slapped and sent home to Mexico, not given twelve years in the slammer. And what about the 743 pounds of pot found in the illegal's van? Where was it going, and how many of our kids are "victims" of the drug culture that Mexico promotes in our Country? So, Mr. President, have the cajones to pardon the Agents and stop pandering to the Mexican government that does not afford any US citizen a break, even in the most simple of offenses. "

Sam wrote on February 18, 2007 6:37 AM:"What happened? Mexico is being allowed to invade the US and no BP is going to stop it. There is your answer."

Warner: wrote on February 18, 2007 6:50 AM:" In most human endeavor there will be mistakes - and there are penalties for mistakes that are crimes. A jury found the two men guilty and they must pay the price for their crimes as those that committed crimes in Iraq are paying. During my twenty years in the military a well founded sense of right and wrong and knowledge of the law kept me on the streight and narrow as in the case of most. It is a shame that some people can't follow the rules and simply do their job, but, when they get carried away there is a price to pay. A jury found the two men guilty and I can not fight that. "

Sandy wrote on February 18, 2007 6:54 AM:"The Conviction of the two Border Patrol Agents is the one event of this decade that is causing more and more Americans to distrust our government. Attorney Johnny Sutton is perceived as a Bush Buddy and they seem to have an agenda. The more I review this case the more I feel the verdicts should be overturned, and the agents exonerated."

Justice was served wrote on February 18, 2007 7:10 AM:"I think these men are just where they belong behind bars. Maybe they just had a bad night but with every action there is a consequence. Their actions were lawlessness and the consequence is prison time. You know the old saying from the Baretta day's "don't do the crime if you can't do the time." I feel for the wife but unfortunately her husband broke the law and just because he has a badge he is not above the law. I hope that the powers that be will not grant them a pardon and they spend the rest of their ordered sentence in prison paying their debt to society. From reading the newspaper and watching the news I think justice was served in this case. I think this will send out a much needed message to other law enforcement officers that they are not above the law. NO AMNESTY THE CRIMINALS COMPEAN AND RAMOS. "

Adam wrote on February 18, 2007 7:21 AM:"It's not just the number of people coming into the U.S. that is a concern for the Department of Homeland Security, but it's from which countries they are coming. Border Patrol agents in San Diego stop nearly 400 illegal border crossers each day. The Border patrol never know what they're here for or what their intentions are. 85% of the illegal Crossers are from mexico while, the remaining 15% could be from anywhere. They try to pass themselves off as being from Mexico. Last year, OTMs (other then Mexico) came from 148 of the 193 countries in the world. These numbers are just for the San Diego region! "

THE BORDER PATROL IS HIRING wrote on February 18, 2007 7:22 AM:"Border Patrol is hiring across the U.S., making a push to find 6,000 new recruits in the next two years."

This Must be Bush's Definition wrote on February 18, 2007 7:25 AM:"The priority mission of the Border Patrol is preventing terrorists and terrorists weapons, including weapons of mass destruction, from entering the United States. Border Patrol Agents patrol nearly 6,000 miles of international land border with Canada and Mexico and nearly 2,000 miles of coastal border. Undaunted by scorching desert heat or freezing northern winters, they work tirelessly as vigilant protectors of our Nation's borders. http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/border_secur ... er_patrol/ "

OFFICIAL BORDER PATROL WEBPAGE wrote on February 18, 2007 7:44 AM:"What is missing from the Home Page of the Border Patrol? Not one mention of the word "Illegal Aliens" or Illegal Immigrants crossing the Borders, that's what. It is almost like they (Illegal Aliens) don't exist. The main purpose of the Border Patrol is to prevent terrorists and terrorists weapons, including weapons of mass destruction, from entering the United States. http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/border_secur ... er_patrol/ It is no wonder that aor Agents Ramos and Compean are being hung out to hang."

What The Jury Never Heard wrote on February 18, 2007 8:14 AM:"A few days before the Ramos-Compean trial began on Oct. 17, 2005, the same drug smuggler was caught bringing in a second van loaded with nearly 1,000 pounds of illegal drugs, but he was not arrested so as not to interfere with his role as star witness against the border guards. The judge also kept from the jury the smuggler's confession that he and his friends had considered a “hunting party” to go shoot some U.S. Border Patrol agents. "

Ask wrote on February 18, 2007 8:19 AM:"What a crappy story. Reads like a 8 year olds crime novel. "

Add Your Comments or Letter to the Editor

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/02 ... ogcomments

Comments On This Story

Syl wrote on February 18, 2007 8:37 AM:"Americans all over the country want to aid in the defense of these two Border Patrol Agents, and what is ironic is that they are Hispanic of mexican decent."

Illegal have more rights wrote on February 18, 2007 8:38 AM:"The US Govt. keep infringing on Americans and their rights and you can bet theres going to be one hell of a backlash. American's and their sovernty is in great danger. Ramos, Compean and Hernandez are a great example of corruption going on and the Mexican governments involvement in US policy. Build a fence and demand secure borders! Americans need to demand their country back, now!"

To Skip wrote on February 18, 2007 8:53 AM:"Remember this same Drug Smuggler was appreneded a second time bringing Illegal Drugs into the United States. The big question is why didn't the government prosecute the drug smuggler and give immunity to the border guards (who had good service records), instead of vice versa? The smuggler admitted his illegal drug project to an Immigration Control agent before Sutton gave him immunity, and the prosecutor did not bother to investigate this drug smuggling by checking the cell phone left in the smuggler's van, or by ordering a fingerprint search of the van until a month after it entered the United States, and even then didn't have it done by the FBI."

dyehard39 wrote on February 18, 2007 9:16 AM:"Bush scares me. Every time I hear Bush say “I” it scare the hell out of me. This is not his country that he alone can do anything he want with it. It is not “his way or the highway,” but tell that to anyone that has opposed him. They resigned. I thought our government was “for the people, by the people” and not a "dictatorship." He do not have the sole right to make decisions concerning other people's children. He is not the lone “decider.” He is going to stop arms from coming over from Iraq to protect the troops any way he can,(and that is good and I hope he does) but he will do nothing to stop terrorist, illegal aliens, and drugs from coming over our border and that is doing American citizens harm. We need to take our government back. Every time I hear him say “I’, I say “Oh, S#$@%T.”"

Syl wrote on February 18, 2007 9:18 AM:"Meanwhile, the Department of Homeland Security now admits its official lied to congressmen in claiming that Ramos and Compean had confessed, lied, destroyed evidence and said they did not believe the smuggler was a threat. No evidence ever existed for those damaging accusations. "

Facts? wrote on February 18, 2007 9:19 AM:"A recently released Department of Homeland Security memo dated May 15, 2005, shows that the two border guards did give a prompt and complete oral report to supervisors, who actually were present at the Feb. 17, 2005, event. The supervisors decided not to make a written report. Failing to make a written report isn't a crime anyway. It is merely a violation of a departmental memo stating that the penalty is merely internal disciplinary action, which is not criminal prosecution. "

PULP FICTION wrote on February 18, 2007 9:21 AM:"I can't wait for the Movie to come out chronicling the government's case against Border patrol Agents Ramos and Compean."

Chicken or the Egg? wrote on February 18, 2007 10:00 AM:"If the drug smuggler wouldn't have been illegally crossing the border with an illegal cargo, he wouldn't have been shot. Secure our borders NOW! Maybe this shooting sent a message to the Mexican drug cartel -the wrong one! You illegally cross the border carrying a load of drugs and the border patrol will find itself on trial, the agents convicted and you are free to make millions selling drugs on the American streets!"

To Suzette wrote on February 18, 2007 10:38 AM:"Who's justice system worked, the U.S. or Mexico's? Yeah, that makes sense. Our border patrol agents are behind bars and the illegal that brought drugs into our country is suing the U.S. for millions. I bet you are for open borders too. "

Suzette wrote on February 18, 2007 11:19 AM:"If you break the law you pay the price. I thank God that our government is not corrupt like the government in Mexico. So I would never compare these great United States to a Country like Mexico or any other. These men are behind bars where they belong because America is great and out justice system does work. If they were doing their jobs right and with in the confines of the law they would not have put our Country in this situation. They made it possible for this guy to have a case against us. Again they are where they put themselves and where they belong. "

Skip wrote on February 18, 2007 12:16 PM:"The failure to release a transcript of the trial one year after the trial took place is an outrage that prevents Ramos and Compean from starting their appeal. Nor has any hearing been scheduled on the assertion by three jurors that they were coerced by the jury foreman to vote for a guilty verdict. "

MVet wrote on February 18, 2007 12:16 PM:"The longer President George W. Bush waits to remedy this injustice perpetrated by his two appointees, Sutton and Cardone, the more he convinces the public that the answer to our bafflement about this prosecution is that the Bush administration policy is to intimidate the Border Patrol from stopping the entry of illegal immigrants and illegal drugs."

The Solution is Simple wrote on February 18, 2007 12:19 PM:"After the Bush Administration completely demoralizes the border patrol and makes them ineffective, we will then have to rely on the National Guard to protect our Borders. LOL Yeah Right!"

Syl wrote on February 18, 2007 12:25 PM:"RE : PAULINE ARRILLAGA - Staff Writer >>> Since when is she a staff writter. This story has been carried by AP Press all over the United States. The Internet lists her as someone deeply concerned over Hispanic Rights, and immigrants."

anotherview wrote on February 18, 2007 12:26 PM:"Upfront, let us agree that the criminal illegal alien drug smuggler would never have set foot in America with his drug cargo unless the demand for his cargo existed here. Thus, a rational separation exists between the illegal drug trade activity and illegal immigration. This separation becomes clear by definition of the object of each behavior. The illegal drug trade activity serves drug users. Illegal immigration primarily serves employers wanting a low-cost, docile labor pool. Each behavior requires a different solution. Ending illegal drug demand will end illegal drug trade activity. Stopping employers from hiring illegal aliens will dramatically curb illegal immigration. Yet, both national problems have proved intractable over the years. Changing the drug-use habit of Americans may require a decade or two of intensive education starting with the youngest citizens, as they enter pre-school or kindergarten. On the other hand, the law must change in order to stop employers from hiring illegal aliens. Bringing about this change in the law, however, requires a national political will committed to do so. This fact means that the U. S. Congress and the President must agree to the passage of laws, with teeth, instituting every effective method for stopping employers from hiring illegal aliens. The politicians must also say no to amnesty for illegal aliens. Without the prospect of either a job or an amnesty, the illegal aliens will tend to self-deport (at their own expense), and the foreign nationals will tend not to migrate illegally to America. Every other modern country, including Mexico, controls who lives and works in the country. America must follow suit, to free itself of illegal aliens. In turn, the host of negative social, political, and economic impacts fostered by the presence of illegal aliens will moderate. America can get along fine without illegal aliens, and will prosper all the more."

Robert wrote on February 18, 2007 12:27 PM:"You all know that the smuggler was rewarded with a GREEN CARD, and that is just for starters. He is now suing the United States for 5 Million Dollars. Way to go Johnny! (That is Taxpayer Dollars if you did not realize it)"

Add Your Comments or Letter to the Editor

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/02 ... _17_07.txt

Originally Posted by Skip

Behind the debate: What really happened in border shooting and agents' convictions?

By: PAULINE ARRILLAGA - Staff Writer ??????

FABENS, Texas ---- The prairie where it all happened is quiet now, but for the occasional U.S. Border Patrol vehicle passing by. A sign rests near a muddy ditch, "Stop Illegal Immigration," left behind by protesters who have visited in homage to two ex-agents, imprisoned for shooting a drug smuggler in the backside as he sprinted toward Mexico.

It seems almost unimaginable that one moment in this lonely place ignited the furor that rages still ---- from the blogosphere to Congress ---- two years later.

Add Your Comments or Letter to the Editor

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/02 ... ogcomments

---------------------------------------------

Syl wrote on February 18, 2007 12:25 PM:"RE : PAULINE ARRILLAGA - Staff Writer >>> Since when is she a staff writter. This story has been carried by AP Press all over the United States. The Internet lists her as someone deeply concerned over Hispanic Rights, and immigrants."

-----------------------------------------------

THEY CHANGED STAFF WRITTER TO AP PRESS




Behind the debate: What really happened in border shooting and agents' convictions?

By: PAULINE ARRILLAGA - Associated Press

Thank you for this link!!!











Neils
9:12 am
02/20/2007

Sad wrote on February 18, 2007 12:46 PM:"Now our Border Patrol Agents are going to be afraid of doing there job, for fear that the criminal will be rewarded for spinning lies. We should be praising the BP for their efforts at keeping our country safe, instead they are getting put in prison to be at the hands of illegal criminals in there too. Did you know the illegals have even sued agents??? What a joke the justice systems is for our law enforcers."

ront wrote on February 18, 2007 12:49 PM:"same old crap. just like iraq. do your job go to jail. someone needs to wake up!!!!!!!!"

Support Our Oops wrote on February 18, 2007 4:07 PM:"Gee, what did these two agents do wrong? Shoot some guy in the back while he was trying to run back into Mexico, then cover up the crime by collecting all the spent shells and failing to report the incident? Gee, they should be national heros! Maybe they should run for President and Vice President in 2008, and continue the glorious tradition of the dweeb who put the mess in Messopotamia."

Reardon wrote on February 18, 2007 4:50 PM:"In a just society, the two agents would have been fired for failure to follow procedure, and the drug runner would have received NOTHING and been arrested the next time he smuggled. There is no forensic evidence that proves an agent struck the smuggler with a round...no blood in the sand, no ballistics, and the bullet fragment could have come (according to testimony) from any of four types of weapons. There is nothing to point to the exact weapon an agent was carrying. This whole thing is a travesty. The justice system is upside down...but we have certainly known that since O.J. continues to walk the streets. No one comes out looking good in this saga, except the smuggler. Go figure! Even harder to figure is that an activist was hired to write the story...but this is the North County Times..."

El Jefe wrote on February 18, 2007 4:57 PM:"These border patrol agents names sound very Hispanic to me & I'm convinced that if they were not Hispanic Americans we might have had a slightly different verdict in this case. All these many sanctimonious sounding arguments to the contrary from the prosecutor and others who want to wrap themselves up in the American Flag & Constitution while demonstrating more concern for the "poor" illegal alien drug traffiker over any potential error on the part of officers who daily risk their lives on our behalf & under the most difficult circumstances. You bet I'm biased in favor of the Border Patrol!!"

To : Support Our Oops wrote on February 18, 2007 5:14 PM:" The doctor's evidence supports that the suspect was shot is the side of the butt. It cannot be proved conclusively from which gun the bullet fragment originated from. There were at least 6 Border patrolmen in attendance, including the supervisors. The suspect ran all the way to Mexico as if he was OK, and then later got caught smuggling drugs again(some people never learn). The government has no eye witness who actually saw the suspect get shot. Yes I really do wonder what these two agents did wrong. Shootings happen every day on the border and the past mentality is if no one is hit them why be bothered with the paperwork."

Harry wrote on February 18, 2007 5:37 PM:"Our Border Patrol, our military servicemen abd women, all those that have joined the frontline struggle to protect our country seems to be punished more and more for acts in defense of themselves and the line they are ordered to defend. The border is also a war, and in war bad things happen. Instead of understanding we just want to take our protectors out and shoot them - even if they do make a mistake. How easy it is for the suits that make the rules to drop the hammer on those that defend us. Spend two or three years in Iraq or two or three years on the border and you might just understand that the same rules of our civilized way don't always apply in a war zone. Shame on us..."

chris wrote on February 18, 2007 7:26 PM:"this story really brings out all kinds , the war freaks and yahoos alike . if these guys did nothing wrong then why the coverup ? if they felt obligated to shoot they should of just let the evidence speak for itself and go from there . they obviuosly knew they weren't in compliance as their actions indicated . "

Dan (Temecula) wrote on February 18, 2007 8:03 PM:" Shoot 1st ask questions later should be are stance. BP agents facing drug cartels daily for low wages is unfair. Not being shot in the butt for smuggling 100,000's dollars worth of drugs. Which this same character has been convicted and deported once before, and once since this incident for drug smuggling. Not to mention the poor drug running illegal has a civil lawsuit for 5 million that he will probably win that comes right out of are tax payer money. All the while he is back in are prison system again because getting shot in the butt has been nothing but profitable why not go for it again. I'm sick of you non American illegal loving #!@$#%^^$#@ showing your support so you can one day have this country turn into poop. Get a life, and get it figured out or just move the #@$% away!!!! My prayers go out to the families of these bp agents, and to them themselves which are already having problems in prison with illegals beating them up. What a messed up system we have. Punish someone for doing there job wrong, and rewarding the criminal. No wonder why we have illegal immigration problems. We reward those that break are laws instead of punishing them!!!!!"

Dear Congressman wrote on February 18, 2007 8:49 PM:"Even though we have spoken previously on your stance on Illegal aliens in our country of which I agree with you 100%, there is another issue going on in our country which I feel is completely integrated with our view on Illegal aliens. That is the unjust prosecution and conviction of the two border patrol agents, Ramos and Compean, for doing their jobs based on lies from the jury forman, telling the other jurists the judge would not accept a hung jury, and The Department of Homeland Security admitting they had lied to Congress concerning this case. A shocking turn in the case of the two former Border Patrol agents: An official from the Department of Homeland Security says his department lied to Congress about the agents admitting guilt in the case. Inspector General Richard Skinner admitted his department lied to Congress. These men who have been outstanding Mexican Americans citizens have been denied bail until an Appeal can be heard and jailed with the general prison population. One has already been beaten intensely by angry illegal aliens also in prison. My question is this. If the Democratic party wants to function as a Bi partisan branch of congress. Why haven't any democrats, including yourself, who feel the way you do toward's Illegal aliens, join the 70 plus Republicans who are fighting to get these men pardoned? Most or all of these Republicans feel as you do towards illegal aliens. Why can't members of both parties who believe the same join together and fight these injustices together. Someone had better tell the democrats who join Bush in his "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" incentive, they will be joining their leader out the door in Jan. 09. Approx. 80% of America feels the way we do. Please take this letter sincerely and do not answer with a form letter if you expect my continued support. "

Suzette wrote on February 19, 2007 8:22 AM:"Oh Dan you have such a potty mouth today. These border patrol agents are not above the law. They are not allowed to go around shooting people in the back. The evidence speaks for itself and these two lawbreakers are exactly where they belong. I say bravo to the jury of their peers who put them where they belong and the District Attorney who brought them to justice. Long live the American Justice System. "

A Hispanic Border patrol? wrote on February 19, 2007 2:43 PM:"Now, another agent has quit to avoid termination over the same incident, and two more are fighting termination. The three agents -- Oscar Juárez, Art Vasquez and David Jacquez -- testified for the prosecution in the case of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean, in exchange for immunity. This is too funny. It is starting to look like all of the agents involved in this incident have hispanic Surnames."

A New Twist! wrote on February 19, 2007 2:46 PM:"The Arizona State Board of the "League of United Latin American Citizens" (LULAC) last week created a resolution supporting a pardon for the agents because the group felt the prison terms were too harsh."

Andrea wrote on February 19, 2007 4:22 PM:"There is so much about this case that is fishey. There needs to be a full blown Congressional investigation. The surprising this is that even our Democratic State Senators, Boxer and Feinstein are in favor of an investigation."

Skip wrote on February 19, 2007 5:02 PM:"And now the other three Border Patrol Agents involved in this story are being fired for lieing about the case. The plot thickens."

American Vet wrote on February 19, 2007 6:18 PM:"TUCSON, Ariz. -- The U.S. Border Patrol's Tucson sector is planning to add 500 additional agents by September 2008 to reach its target of 3,100 agents along the segment of the Arizona-Mexico border that it oversees. "

Ramos attorney calls for mistrial wrote on February 20, 2007 12:20 AM:"The prosecutor in the high-profile case that sent border agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean to prison never showed the defense a potentially exculpatory Department of Homeland Security memo. The government's failure to disclose the document to the defense denied her client his right to a fair trial and establishes the basis for declaring a mistrial. "

Ingrid wrote on February 20, 2007 12:30 AM:"Investigation disclosed that the following BP agents were at the location of the shooting incident, assisted in destroying evidence of the shooting, and/or knew/heard about the shooting: Oscar Juarez; Arturo Vasquez; Jose Mendoza; David Jaquez; Lance Medrano; Lorenzo Yrigoyen; Rene Mendez; Robert Arnold; and Jonathan Richards. Of the nine listed agents, two were supervisors."

Beckyal wrote on February 20, 2007 6:53 AM:"This should be a mistrial. I have seen mistrials on much less. The whole case smells. From the ruling of the judge to what sutton did. First this should never have gone to trial, next do we even know that drug smuggler was shot by the BP, the medical people could not determine if the bullet came from the BP gun. The defendents are suppose to be given the benefit of a doubt and are innocent until proven guilty. In this case, the defendents were not really proven guilty. The word of drug smuggler is not sufficient to prove guilt in my mind."

Rockfish wrote on February 20, 2007 6:55 AM:"This smells just like a rotting carcass (notice I didn't use the word 'fish'). I hope heads will roll. These guys had to have been acting under orders..question is.. will they be the fall guys for a conspiracy or will they cry fowl..and if they cry fowl, I don't think that the jerks like Sutton, Gonzolas, Chertoff and Bush are going to get away with this, IF indeed they are behind this."

Mexican Consulate? wrote on February 20, 2007 7:35 AM:"A memo signed by DHS special agent Christopher Sanchez March 14, 2005, about one month after the incident states that Border Patrol Agent Rene Sanchez (assigned to Arizona) said that his mother-in-law Gregoria Toquinto went to Mexico to help her friend Marcadia take her son Osbaldo to the Mexican consulate to report the shooting incident. However, Osbaldo declined to go. Marcadia advised Toquinto that Osbaldo did not want to report the incident because he had actually been transporting a load of marijuana and was afraid the Mexican and/or U.S. authorities would put him in jail. The Mexican Consulate would be in the US (probably El Paso). My questions: 1) Why would Osbaldo need to return to the US to report the shooting? 2) Did his mother contact the Mexican Consulate? 3) If a complaint was made, did the consulate directly petition the US Attorney, or was the State Department involved?"

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