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Thread: Dems: Let illegals work, or they'll break even more laws

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  1. #1
    Administrator Jean's Avatar
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    Dems: Let illegals work, or they'll break even more laws

    By Pete Kasperowicz 12/5/15 12:01 AM

    Democrats argued in a Friday brief to the Supreme Court that not allowing illegal immigrants to work in the United States is a bad idea, because those immigrants could be forced to break other laws as they look for ways to make a living "in the shadows."

    Obama's executive action from a year ago was aimed at sparing millions of illegal immigrants from deportation and allowing them to work. Two federal courts have put the action on hold, which prompted the Obama administration to push the case to the Supreme Court.

    Republicans have said illegal immigrants are lawbreakers by definition, and say even if some are low priority for deportation, they shouldn't be given extra incentive to stay by being given work permits.

    But on Friday, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said denying illegals work permits would only make them become even bigger lawbreakers.

    "If individuals deemed to present low-priority cases for enforcement... were denied the ability to work lawfully, many would have no means of survival other than illegal activity," they wrote.

    The "friend of the court" brief from Democrats also argued that not letting illegal immigrants work would give them even less incentive to report to authorities, although Republicans say most are flouting this responsibility anyway.

    "The secretary could properly determine that such a situation would undermine the incentive for unauthorized immigrants to report themselves to the Department of Homeland Security, impair the government's ability to keep track of such individuals, and perpetuate a situation in which millions of individuals live 'in the shadows," they wrote.

    More broadly, the Democratic brief rejected the lower court rulings, and said Obama's executive action on immigration was a "permissible exercise of the discretion that Congress" gave to the Executive Branch. The brief said limited resources means the White House must have the discretion to focus on deporting only high-priority illegal immigrants, not all of them.

    "The court of appeals has overturned, as contrary to the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), a practical judgment by the Secretary of Homeland Security about how to channel the government's limited immigration enforcement resources toward categories of individuals likely to pose a danger to the public interest rather than the millions of individuals who do not," they wrote.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/de...rticle/2577694
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Oh my God, is this real? Do the Democrats not understand that by giving illegal aliens American Workers' jobs, they put Americans "in the shadows" of poverty, unemployment, underemployment and force many of them into crimes to survive?

    Where is the black community on this? WHERE ARE YOU??!! You need to stand up with all Americans and stop this insanity. The black community more than any other individual race group can protest against the highest unemployment rates, the highest poverty rates, and the highest crime rates to drive this issue home! We need to deport illegal aliens, not because of their race or ethnicity but because they're in our country in violation of US immigration law, the US Constitution and the will of the American People. PLEASE STAND WITH ALIPAC and TRUMP to stop this disaster.
    southBronx and Mayday like this.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Captainron's Avatar
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    Probably the feminist Supreme Court justices will support their crony Obama, and hopefully the rest will rule against him. Of course, Roberts, trying to be the good guy collegial type might support Obama.
    "Men of low degree are vanity, Men of high degree are a lie. " David
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  4. #4
    Senior Member ReformUSA2012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Oh my God, is this real?
    Sadly not so hard to believe this is what they think and say. The exact same argument they have used for poor minorities and welfare for years. *If we take away welfare they will turn even more to crime to survive*, *If we ban or even limit abortions they will just be more welfare babies costing us more welfare money*.

    Each time instead of supporting a fix for the core of the problem that could potentially solve a huge part of the problem they instead want to avoid a real fix and offer a bogus patch to keep the problem going but make that problem and bogus fix dependent on Dem policies. They know full well a real fix for many of these issues would utterly destroy the DNC. Pass a bill (when Dems had full control) stating gays are protected under *Equal Rights* and thus allowed to marry, enforce the law fully against illegal aliens, few other basic bills that a fair number of Reps would have easily supported and all of a sudden 90% of the talking points of Dems are no longer issues. Dem party falls apart as they have no positive agenda that Americans would follow if not using the mostly bogus nonsense they spew.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReformUSA2012 View Post
    Sadly not so hard to believe this is what they think and say. The exact same argument they have used for poor minorities and welfare for years. *If we take away welfare they will turn even more to crime to survive*, *If we ban or even limit abortions they will just be more welfare babies costing us more welfare money*.

    Each time instead of supporting a fix for the core of the problem that could potentially solve a huge part of the problem they instead want to avoid a real fix and offer a bogus patch to keep the problem going but make that problem and bogus fix dependent on Dem policies. They know full well a real fix for many of these issues would utterly destroy the DNC. Pass a bill (when Dems had full control) stating gays are protected under *Equal Rights* and thus allowed to marry, enforce the law fully against illegal aliens, few other basic bills that a fair number of Reps would have easily supported and all of a sudden 90% of the talking points of Dems are no longer issues. Dem party falls apart as they have no positive agenda that Americans would follow if not using the mostly bogus nonsense they spew.
    Well, on gay marriage and girls and womens rights to abortion procedures to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, these issues are very different. These are basic rights of Americans to control their personal lives without undue in the case of abortion or unfair in the case of gay marriage rights interference by the government. People disagree on this for various reasons, I support gay marriage and abortion rights, and I'm a Republican from a family of Republicans who have been Republicans since there were Republicans, so on these two issues I believe Republicans today are on the wrong side of them. Others don't, but whether you do or not, the question is regardless of your personal opinion, why involve the government to invoke your opinion on someone else? I'm Pro-choice which means I support the decision of the girl or woman involved, if she wants to have her baby, I support her, if she doesn't, then I also support her choice to terminate the pregnancy. This doesn't force anyone to do or not do anything they don't feel is best for them. To me, that's the Republican view, to me, that's the correct view. The Pro-Life position is fine right up until they want government to exploit laws and the power of government to force girls and women into childbirth against their will. To this day, 40 plus years after Roe V Wade, I still do not understand people who would want to do this to any girl or woman of the United States. That doesn't mean that as individuals you can believe whatever you want, it's when you want to exploit government power to rule over someone else who doesn't think the same way that is the problem. Same with gay marriage. There's nothing wrong with gay marriage. Gay people are entitled to relationships they can be happy in, have a spouse, arrange their personal legal and financial affairs, and yes, even have families if they want. They are people, individuals, entitled to the same basic human rights as everyone else.

    But for illegal immigration, oh my God, this is a matter of common sense, rule of law, upholding the Constitution and States Rights, protecting the economic security of American citizens and businesses, protecting welfare benefits, our education and health care systems, and yes by all means the US Treasury. I mean there is just no social, legal, economic or moral reason for this to be allowed at all. These are trespassers of the most arrogant, demanding, selfish, self-centered group of criminals in the world. This notion that they're chasing some "dream" is bull crap, they're chasing drugs, money and us. This isn't about a "better life", this is about stealing our lives and country, and it must be stopped, illegal aliens deported without excuse or mercy, and this disaster brought to an end, once and for all.

    I hold no confidence in the US Supreme Court on the issue of government power. They've never ruled against it unless it was some Catholic anti-woman thing like the Holly Lobby case. And to my knowledge, the US Supreme Court has never ruled against any aspect of immigration, not once in its entire history. Not slavery, not citizenship of children of immigrants, not AZ SB 1070, not States Rights to stop immigration, not displaced workers whose jobs were stolen by illegal aliens or immigrants, never, not once, to m knowledge has the US Supreme Court ever ruled in favor of the United States, American Citizens or American Workers.

    And I do not expect a change in that this time. So the Texas suit that Congress chose to hang its hat on rather than man up and defund this program in DHS when it could and should have, will probably show they passed the buck and America lost again at the hands of those in all 3 branches of the federal government, Executive through Obama's Executive Amnesty, Legislative through Congressional inaction, and Judicial through the US Supreme Court that will probably support the Executive Branch action.

    Ironically, under the US Constitution, none of these 3 federal branches have any authority or power over immigration of any kind at all, except to prohibit it after the year 1808.

    Our country didn't get in this mess on its own. Oh no, it's had the full support of all 3 branches of government, filled with traitors, socialists, communists, aliens and idiots who are sadly largely funded by the foreign interests they have all three chosen to support, instead of the nation, people and Constitution they swore to uphold.
    Last edited by Judy; 12-06-2015 at 12:48 PM.
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  6. #6
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    The PEOPLE should enter a brief stating all the harm illegal and over-immigration numbers causes the citizens of the USA - would needa lawyer draw up and present.
    I'm sure many would sign a petition and raise funds for a lawyer.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Captainron's Avatar
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    "Turning to crime.."
    Yep. I heard the exact same thing at our county budget hearing (Our county is 800,000 pop. the immigrant population in the east county area is exploding---they even get public art works projects recognizing them.) The illegal parents show up, demanding services or "our children will become gang members." The advocacy groups show up demanding money for their program, or continuation, for illegal aliens or their children "will become gang members."

    In both of these cases it seems like extortion of public officials----pay up or you get a crime ring (or a hundred). And if the county officials had not gone out of their way to hold their first budget hearing at an office for 'refugees and immigrants' where they were certain to get demands like this, why would they even have been extorted this way. Of course all over this county there are advocacy groups for illegals and their children---wanting to get funding, wanting to get appointed to boards, threatening lawsuits.

    I would say this is extortionate crime. And elected officials should not go out of their way to encourage it either. Extorting public officials is a serious crime. As I have pointed out, with crimes of moral turpitude, assisting, aiding abetting and colluding can also be prosecuted. If these kinds of activity rose to be considered extortion it carries a lot of weight.
    Last edited by Captainron; 12-06-2015 at 05:48 PM. Reason: correct misspelling, punctuation
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captainron View Post
    "Turning to crime.."
    Yep. I heard the exact same thing at our county budget hearing (Our county is 800,000 pop. the immigrant population in the east county area is exploding---they even get public art works projects recognizing them.) The illegal parents show up, demanding services or "our children will become gang members." The advocacy groups show up demanding money for their program, or continuation, for illegal aliens or their children "will become gang members."

    In both of these cases it seems like extortion of public officials----pay up or you get a crime ring (or a hundred). And if the county officials had not gone out of their way to hold their first budget hearing at an office for 'refugees and immigrants' where they were certain to get demands like this, why would they even have been extorted this way. Of course all over this county there are advocacy groups for illegals and their children---wanting to get funding, wanting to get appointed to boards, threatening lawsuits.

    I would say this is extortionate crime. And elected officials should not go out of their way to encourage it either. Extorting public officials is a serious crime. As I have pointed out, with crimes of moral turpitude, assisting, aiding abetting and colluding can also be prosecuted. If these kinds of activity rose to be considered extortion it carries a lot of weight.
    This is just a ploy. They all work for the gangs, it's why they're here. The cartels send them, the cartels financed their trip here, and they're still financing them. This is just gravy to bribe the politicians into handing over more money to them. It's the biggest ruse ever pulled off in the United States. And of course it is a form of extortion, "pay us or our kids will kill your kids".

    DEPORT, DEPORT, DEPORT ... no excuses, no mercy.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Captainron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artist View Post
    The PEOPLE should enter a brief stating all the harm illegal and over-immigration numbers causes the citizens of the USA - would needa lawyer draw up and present.
    I'm sure many would sign a petition and raise funds for a lawyer.
    Been wondering that myself. I am in the remodeling business and jobs that used to be plentiful are now occupied with illegals. So anyone employing an illegal alien is taking business away from me. Plus, we have had official statements from the US Government (for example, Clinton as Secty. of State issued a statement that illegal Chinese were a "danger." So, when builders in my neighborhood employ illegals they are exposing me to a clear danger, validated by official US government statements. This is pretty clear.

    However, it can be tough to find a conservative lawyer to take up this issue. It seems like most of them stick to property issues and now child education issues (like charter schools for instance) and don't delve into immigration or national security issues. So how do you influence the political process? On the left side there are well organized political advocacy groups like ACLU that sue governments all the time. But there is not much of that for conservatives. I have suggested multiple small claims cases-----I would put out the 100 bucks to file a $10,000 claim. But one small claims suit would get stopped---but maybe not 20-30 of them. So I think public policy could actually be affected.
    "Men of low degree are vanity, Men of high degree are a lie. " David
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Captainron's Avatar
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    "And I do not expect a change in that this time. So the Texas suit that Congress chose to hang its hat on rather than man up and defund this program in DHS when it could and should have, will probably show they passed the buck and America lost again at the hands of those in all 3 branches of the federal government, Executive through Obama's Executive Amnesty, Legislative through Congressional inaction, and Judicial through the US Supreme Court that will probably support the Executive Branch action."

    Assuming that the US Supreme Court decides to take this case, the next important tactic as far as I know would be for illegal immigration opponents to submit amicus curiae briefs. While I think the 26 states have already raised the appropriate issues, given the stubborn character of certain Supreme Court justices there are some extra questions that should be dealt with.

    1. This issue is about illegal immigrants. If Obama wanted to give an Executive Order modifying something concerning legal immigrants that would be one thing, but a massive sweeping order concerning 5 million illegals is VASTLY DIFFERENT.
    2. Clearly, illegal immigrants are deliberately gaming these orders. If this was an order concerning illegal immigrants who were just a small, chance population---let's say 100,000---again that's vastly different than several million, and every indication is that such an Ex. Order would lead to even more gaming of the system.
    3. The OVERALL policy has been very haphazard (and began before Obama) so fueling more haphazard policy is intrinsically wrong. Illegal immigrants are only one group where haphazard enforcement has been taking place. Even within the system of legal immigrants there is chaotic administrative policy. So two wrongs don't make a right.
    4. The Priority Enforcement Program is wrong. If you measured how people are affected, there is a lot more chaos being caused, not just by the somewhat small group that the administration is considering a priority, because they are overtly dangerous, but other crimes, too, that they don't consider a priority. Courts need to also take into account 'sinister' activity, like fraud, etc.

    I know the states are approximating these arguments, but I think a lot of their dispute centers on the state's rights, too. THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT JUNCTURE!!! People should do as much as they can to influence this. Might have to be only through groups that can communicate these amicus briefs to the SCOTUS, I'm not sure if citizens can, on their own.
    "Men of low degree are vanity, Men of high degree are a lie. " David
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