Thread: FTAA : U.S Agriculture would ruin Colombia flaming Conflicts

FTAA : Free Trade Agreement of the Americas

American Agriculture would ruin Colombia
And Flame Agrarian Conflicts in the whole of Latin America





Dear American Friends :




Nothing equals the power of American Agriculture : Efficiency, Technology, Science, Automation, Computers, Transgenics, Discipline, Organization, Satellites, Robots, Subsidies of US $ 100 per ton of agricultural products, etc ...

And there is a Free Trade Agreement soon to be signed between the USA and the Andean Countries. Probably in September or October of 2005.



The AFTA : Andean Free Trade Agreement. This leads to the FTAA.


Today this pact is 100% skewed and biased against Colombia.

AGRICULTURE : Colombia gave everything. The USA gives nothing. ( As it stands today )

And the pact says that Colombia will have to receive ALMOST ALL AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS from the USA almost immediately and without quotas.

Whereas ALMOST ALL Colombian Agricultural Products are going to be subjected to U. S. Customs duties and long periods of time to reduce import taxes.

And there are a lot of artifical barriers and obstacles against Colombian Agriculture. U. S. Inspections are very whimsical and full of fancy caprices ( as we have seen in the past ) .... A little worm in a guava and all Colombian guavas are forbidden forever. This has no reciprocity, U. S. agricultural products can not be discussed or rejected here.

This is very grave for Colombia as it stands today.

Millions of poor peasants will become beggars in the City Streets and that would add to the Agrarian conflict.

And lots of Ruined and Poor Colombians would like to enter the USA Legally or Illegally. Expect a Tsunami of Economic Refugees.

America would destroy her best ally in South America. The only one that always approves what the USA does.





Is this good ??
( As it stands today on August 22 of 2002 )



Is this good for American Power and American Foreign Policy. Is this a good example of the Virtues of America ??? ... Is this a good neighbor ???

These are not matters of Nationalism, Chauvinism, Jingoism, Supremacism or Xenophobia. These are matters of COMMON SENSE.


Thanks for your kindness and sharing of your ideas.



Vicente Duque

vicente,
I don’t really understand your point. We don’t want more illegals here as we have enough problems dealing with those that are already here.

The FTAA like CAFTA and any other TRADE AGREEMENT after NAFTA has been bad for the US. We told you that CAFTA was a stepping Stone to the FTAA and had it failed the FTAA would not pass. But because CAFTA passed, the FTAA now has hope of passing this year. We told you how CAFTA would exploit any nation that signs onto, but you kept praising it. So tell me what is your point of going against the FTAA? Why not embrace it like you did the FTAA?

Those of us who love our country and our nation’s sovereignty opposed CAFTA as we oppose the FTAA.

Dear JP :

Human Beings have a right to change opinions as developments unfold and the mind is presented with new evidence, new knowledge and new facts.

Yes, I have changed my opinion on FTAs and in particular the one that is going to destroy my country.

The USA is presenting Colombia with a Trade Agreement that is a terrible mistake for the Andean Nation. Because Colombian Agriculture would be ruined by American Agriculture.

In the short term it benefits the USA by selling lots of extra agriculture but in the long range it will cause Agrarian Revolts, Violence, etc ... and that is not going to be good for American Foreign Policy.

I still think that CAFTA is not such a bad deal for the USA, but the FTA with Colombia is going to discredit U. S. Foreign Policy and give more reasons to Castro, Chavez and other Governments that are unfriendly to the USA.

And be assured that by ruining Colombia, the U. S. would be confronted with more Economic Refugees. Many Colombians may spill over to Central America and Mexico, causing trouble to the American plans to stop Illegal or Legal Immigration.


Vicente Duque

Is this good for American Power and American Foreign Policy. Is this a good example of the Virtues of America ??? ... Is this a good neighbor ???

"we the people" were not in favor of CAFTA . . . these "so called" foreign trade agreements are BAD for the States and the people . . . members of this forum lobbied during the night calling Congress to prevent CAFTA -- but OUR Representatives failed to listen to the voice of the people and 'we the people' were sold out to Corporate America.

The "so called" Senate for the United States did not vote on behalf of the States -- they auctioned off the States to the highest bidder . . .

I still think that CAFTA is not such a bad deal for the USA, but the FTA with Colombia is going to discredit U. S. Foreign Policy and give more reasons to Castro, Chavez and other Governments that are unfriendly to the USA.

while we were against CAFTA you were in favor of it "... Is this a good neighbor ???"

p.s. we are not in favor of ANY 'free traitors' that sell out our country

Mamie :



Thanks for your post. You said :

while we were against CAFTA you were in favor of it "... Is this a good neighbor ???"

Yes .... I am starting to change because I have read with astonishment what is being discussed between the USA and Colombia about Agricultural Products. What a disaster for Colombia !!!


I have been sincere in my belief that CAFTA was not going to wreak havoc in the USA. Although you are in Alabama and the Sock Industry may suffer somo job losses.

Some people here in the ALIPAC Forum are from North Carolina and the Textile and Garment Industry may lose a few thousand jobs.

But your country ( the United States of America ) is extremely rich and powerful and you are going to recover the job losses with new businesses that are going to create much more High Tech and High Pay jobs ( inside the U. S. )




Mamie :



I have a great respect and admiration for the USA and when I said that CAFTA was not such a bad deal for the U. S. I was sincere. I was not unfriendly and I did not want to insult or offend you.

The Powerful USA is not going to be ruined by little tropical countries that are poor and backward and you can always control the Illegal Immigration.




The Case of Colombia :


The case of Colombia is one thousand graver than any harm that the USA, Mexico or CAFTA countries can suffer.

I am astonished at the harsh treatment of the U. S. Negotiators against a Colombia that has given permission for Almost all American Agricultural Products from the start. The U. S. has not ceded in any point.

This will ruin Colombian Agriculture and will throw a lot of gasoline to an Agrarian or Rural conflict that is 50 years old.

The cities will be flooded with beggars.

And sooner or later there will be Colombian economic refugees, perhaps not in the USA that has such advanced technologies of computers and satellites to control illegal aliens, but Mexico and Central America will be invaded by displaced Colombian Campesinos.

And their lands will be bought at very cheap prices by the Paramilitary Narcos that provide drugs to American Customers.

In the Short Term American Agriculture is going to have a good deal and earn good dollars. But later there will be a lot of political problems of Foreign Policy and Immigration.

Latin America has been moving towards the left : Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay.




North Carolina, Alabama, California, Colorado :


Mamie :

I understand the suffering of Textile Garment jobless people in Alabama or the Carolinas. Perhaps you and JP have talked to jobless workers of that industry and have seen their dispair. But your country is very rich and can help them now and in the future.

I understand that Rose Growers and other Floriculture Workers are now jobless because of the competition from Colombia and Ecuador. ( In California and Colorado ). But your suffering is nothing compared to those that are going to be murdered in a Civil War that is going to be flamed by the gasoline of AFTA : Andean Free Trade Agreement.


Vicente Duque

But your country ( the United States of America ) is extremely rich and powerful and you are going to recover the job losses with new businesses that are going to create much more High Tech and High Pay jobs ( inside the U. S. )

vicente,
Our country is not very rich as you so think. Yes there are many wealthy people in this country but they are the exception, not the rule. We are not recovering from the lost textile jobs with high tech, because those displaced workers who were retrained in higher technology soon learned that their jobs had been outsourced. Our government through these trade agreements is making a few corporations richer, while making us all poor in every country.

Most Americans are thousands of dollars in debt and will never get out of it. Our economy is not doing as well as you think vicente. When our countries unite as the FTAA will have us to do then we will all be equally poor. The middle class which has made our country so great is quickly eroding and we are moving towards a two class system, with the very rich and the very poor. We as Americans don’t want this to happen, but that is what our elected representatives are doing.

Keep reading about any trade deals before you think it to be a good idea. None of them have and none of them now have America’s best interests at heart. I hope that you will learn this and learn it soon before it is too late.

When I get to congress, I will work to have the US out of the WTO, the UN and to rescind these trade deals.

JP you said :

Most Americans are thousands of dollars in debt and will never get out of it. Our economy is not doing as well as you think vicente. When our countries unite as the FTAA will have us to do then we will all be equally poor. The middle class which has made our country so great is quickly eroding and we are moving towards a two class system, with the very rich and the very poor.

I am very worried by reading this paragraph of yours. We gain nothing in Latin America if the United States gets into trouble : Domestic Trouble or International Trouble like Iraq.

We have nothing to gain and everything to lose if an American loses his/her job and does not find another one.

The prosperity of any human being in any country in this planet is good for all of us. The ruin of a person of a family anywhere makes us all poorer.

I know that you JP and Judy are moved by Noble Ideals of Democracy, Freedom, Prosperity for all, etc ...

I wish that one day you might come here to Colombia in full security and enjoy the trip.

I am very egoistic ( as a human being ) and now I am very worried because I see a big threat in this Trade Agreement. The little that Colombia may win in industry will be offset by loses in Agriculture and Human Starvation or Deprivation.

Thanks

Vicente Duque

[/quote]

Originally Posted by vicente

But your country ( the United States of America ) is extremely rich and powerful and you are going to recover the job losses with new businesses that are going to create much more High Tech and High Pay jobs ( inside the U. S. )

"we the people" on the average are neither rich nor powerful . . . and many citizens will never recover from "job losses" because many lose not only their jobs, but their homes, their retirements and their healthcare benefits . . .

The Powerful USA is not going to be ruined by little tropical countries that are poor and backward and you can always control the Illegal Immigration. . . .But your country is very rich and can help them now and in the future.

that's like saying the western states are "not going to be ruined by little tropical" hurricane while the coastal states can be devastated by hurricane damage. Have you seen how many people in the coastal areas still don't have homes to live in? these citizens went through another hurricane season with blue tarps on the roofs

and OUR country IS NOT controlling "Illegal Immigration" -- IF it was, we would not be here!!

we are a country of laws with a Constitution to protect the citizens, but just this week a "so called" judge in Texas awarded two "ILLEGAL ALIENS" that invaded the private property of a Texas citizen the ranch of the victimized citizen -- this "judgement" was in violation of the Constitution and the laws of the United States

ALIENS are not citizens entitled to the rights and privileges of citizenship -- one of those rights is the right to sue. ALIENS are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States -- they are under the law of nations . . .

but in the NEW AMERICA "illegal aliens" are entitled to immunity, privileges state citizens are not entitled to and more government programs than the citizens even though there is no article of the Constitution that gives Congress the right to bestow upon illegals, the tax monies of the citizens

lastly, why should our citizens have to live in a welfare state to accomodate the rest of the world?

I am astonished at the harsh treatment of the U. S. Negotiators against a Colombia that has given permission for Almost all American Agricultural Products from the start. The U. S. has not ceded in any point

we're astonished at the harsh treatment of the citizens and states of the United States by OUR government . . . OUR representatives did not "represent" the citizens or states -- they sold out to the "extremely rich and powerful"

Mamie :

Thanks for your post and explanations :





I thought that the U. S. Government helped to rebuild houses torn down by tornados or hurricanes.

I also believed that people kicked out of Textile or Garment Industries had good Government benefits so that they could move to another High Tech Job, perhaps with better pay.

If I was wrong in my beliefs then there is an accelerated pace of events that harms many U. S. Citizens. Now I see why some people call Mr Bush the nickname of Mr Rush.





Ominous and Sinister



This Time what is going to happen is more ominous and sinister than NAFTA or CAFTA.

American Agriculture is one billion times better than the Colombian one, the soils are better and the U. S. climate is better for Cereals, Add Technology, Science, etc ... And subsidies of US $ 100 per ton of cereal.

Thousands of peasants are going to lose their little farms unable to make a living. The cities will be filled with beggars.

This will put pressure on emigration anywhere, probably to Central America and Mexico and perhaps further North. ( What you don't like )

Colombia has been in Agrarian Revolt for 50 years.

Can it be quelled with an FTA ???

American Foreign Policy is going to be discredited before the eyes of the world if this law passes in the two congresses. The short term windfall to American Agriculture will be offset by very ominous events.

Bad Auspices !!

Thanks Again !

Vicente Duque

Originally Posted by vicente

Mamie :

Thanks for your post and explanations :


I thought that the U. S. Government helped to rebuild houses torn down by tornados or hurricanes.

I also believed that people kicked out of Textile or Garment Industries had good Government benefits so that they could move to another High Tech Job, perhaps with better pay.

If I was wrong in my beliefs then there is an accelerated pace of events that harms many U. S. Citizens. Now I see why some people call Mr Bush the nickname of Mr Rush.


Ominous and Sinister



This Time what is going to happen is more ominous and sinister than NAFTA or CAFTA.

American Agriculture is one billion times better than the Colombian one, the soils are better and the U. S. climate is better for Cereals, Add Technology, Science, etc ... And subsidies of US $ 100 per ton of cereal.

Thousands of peasants are going to lose their little farms unable to make a living. The cities will be filled with beggars.

This will put pressure on emigration anywhere, probably to Central America and Mexico and perhaps further North. ( What you don't like )

Colombia has been in Agrarian Revolt for 50 years.

Can it be quelled with an FTA ???

American Foreign Policy is going to be discredited before the eyes of the world if this law passes in the two congresses. The short term windfall to American Agriculture will be offset by very ominous events.

Bad Auspices !!

Thanks Again !

Vicente Duque

not everyone qualifies for FEMA assistance -- many of these hardworking citizens PAID homeowners insurance, but the insurance companies refuse to pay their claims ... many have had to resort to filing suits in court -- it takes a long time to have a suit heard . . .

I'm sure there were companies that assisted with insurance, but under COBRA, the insurance is very expensive -- when a family lives from paycheck to paycheck as most Americans do, it's hard to live on nocheck to nocheck .... and many cannot afford COBRA insurance


Thousands of American citizens lost their "little farms unable to make a living" because most of these farms were passed down through the generations --- the POWERFUL federal government confiscated many because the heirs could not afford to pay the INHERITANCE TAXES . . .

in this country, the Citizens that own property are punished . . . the elderly that own their homes do not qualify for many programs --- to get assistance they have to turn over ALL their property to the POWERFUL government . . .

on the other hand, OUR government rewards those that enter this country "illegally" -- they are given healthcare, housing, foodstamps, education and utilities . . . monies from the very CITIZENS that they refuse to help ...

our courts of the lawless award the property of the CITIZENS to "illegal invaders" -- punishing the property owner for trying to protect THEIR private property because the POWERFUL government refused to do its job to "repel invasions" . . .

we too are like "peasants" in our own country --- we too are losing our culture and our heritage to the millions of aliens that are in this country illegally . . .