Thread: Real IDiocy

http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/0603/mossback.php

[b]Real IDiocy
A national identity card issued by the state Department of Licensing? Yes, it's the lawâ€â€

REPEAL THE REALID!!

This I support.

Yeah, and the Iraq war was supposed to cost a few billion in pocket change. (Cost estimate last week by a Nobel economist: $2 trillion.)

Lou had someone on the other night and there is a NEWER STUDY that says THREE TRILLION DOLLARS. I THINK it was a Harvard study. I'll try to find that.

As for the REAL ID, I think y'all have finally convinced me that I don't want it either!! At first, I really thought it was a good idea but, in light of all of the NSA spying stuff, I realize NOW that this administration is HELL-BENT on being able to play BIG BROTHER to ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS.

I STAND CORRECTED. The TWO TRILLION DOLLAR AMOUNT WAS CORRECT. Below is that transcript from Lou Dobbs' show--January 16th:
The war is also costing taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars. Congressional researchers predict the war could eventually cost as much as $500 billion.

Two of the country's most distinguished economists and budget experts say the war could actually cost two trillion dollars. Joining me now, the authors of the study, Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, professor of economics at Columbia University and Linda Bilmes, lecturer at Harvard University, former Chief Financial Officer at the Department of Commerce.

Thank you both for being here. Professor Stiglitz, let me start. Two trillion dollars is a far cry from the initial statements as to what this war was going to cost.

JOSEPH STIGLITZ, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: They Originally talked about $50 to $60 billion. Larry Lindsey, who I'm sure you know, had come up with numbers of $100 to $200 billion.

DOBBS: And he was sent away.

STIGLITZ: He was basically fired. They distanced themselves -- the administration distanced themselves from that number and said no, it was going to be $50 to $60 billion.

DOBBS: Linda, you are a budget expert. How could this administration, this Congress get it so wrong and tolerate such wrong headed estimates?

LINDA BILMES, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Well, it's very hard to understand the estimates that are coming out of the administration, but basically there are there four types of costs that they don't include.

The first they don't include costs for taking care of our veterans, both medical care and disability when they come home. Second, they haven't included the cost of replenishing the military, bringing it back to its pre-Iraq levels. Third, there are other --

DOBBS: Linda, if I may interject.

BILMES: Yes.

DOBBS: Certain geniuses are in fact talking about cutting the size of our National Guard because they have such budget constraints, they're actually talking about reducing the level of our preparedness militarily. Go ahead.

BILMES: The National Guard and the Reserves right now make up 40 percent of the fighting force. We of course in our study have not looked, have not even included the cost of not having them here on the ground in order to take care of the homeland in the event of an attack.

DOBBS: You project out to 2010 Professor Stiglitz, these numbers, this is crushing. I'm going to ask you, as the great economist you are, to give us a sense of how in the world can the United States, admittedly the world super power, extraordinarily rich but also with trillions of dollars in debt, deficits, trade and budget that are crushing us. How much of this can we stand before it -- it actually puts so much pressure on us that we have to yield to it?

STIGLITZ: Well, we are lucky they we are as rich a country as we are. Cause otherwise this would really truly be crushing. But to put a perspective on this. We had a debate earlier this year, last year about what was described as our crushing Social Security problem.

DOBBS: Right.

STIGLITZ: That problem could have been fixed for the next 75 years with just a half a trillion. So in other words, we're spending four times the amount of money that would have completely fixed that Social Security problem for the next 75 years.

DOBBS: It's extraordinary, and by the way talking about $13 trillion in unfunded liabilities for Social Security, just about twice that for Medicare and Medicaid in this country. So the problems are enormous. Unfortunately they're not limited to Medicare -- I mean to Social Security. You could argue it is the simplest of the problem to solve.

STIGLITZ: Exactly.

DOBBS: Linda, let me ask you both this. I know you're coming in as budget experts and economists. And people hear economists and budget, their eyes glaze over. Let's put it in these terms, how can a democracy function when politicians of both parties, Congress and both houses and the executive branch are either ignorant and incompetent in discussing the cost of public policy decisions or, worse, lying.

STIGLITZ: that is why we did the study because we felt very strongly that the American people ought to know what this venture is costing. This was a war of choice. This was not like World War II where we attacked. We made a decision. We made the decision about when to go to war as well as whether to go to war.

How we made that decision had an effect on those costs. One of the things I find so upsetting is that we aren't including the long run costs of health care and disability payments. You mentioned the over 2,000 people have died already.

DOBBS: Right, governors are declaring states of emergency in terms of health care costs. The new Medicare program is a disaster in terms of the prescription. This administration, governors appealing to insurance companies to try to deal with it because they can't run a government correctly.

STIGLITZ: To put perspective on this, 16,000 have already -- 16,000 have already had some serious injury. Twenty percent of that 16,000 have serious brain injuries. They're going to require lifetime care. We know from the Gulf War that lasted just 30 days that we are paying today two billion dollars a year for those people. Can you imagine what we're going to be paying for the veterans that come back from this venture?

DOBBS: There are costs, there are consequences, there is tragic loss of life in any war. But the fact that we, nor our public policy elite on both parties have focused on the reality, of its cost, and only now becoming clear the cost on human lives and suffering, American lives and suffering along with everyone else.

Linda Bilmes, the idea that we could miss a budget this far, when we are looking at so many important decisions here in terms of the economic health and well-being of this country. How do you react to it? I will give you the last word. Your concluding thoughts.

BILMES: I think it is very, very important we should look at this war and decide whether the benefits, if any, outweigh the amount of money that we are spending. We are spending nearly $2 trillion or more on this war. And we would need to find a great deal of benefits to come anywhere near that amount of money, given the other needs of the people in this country.