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  1. #1
    Administrator Jean's Avatar
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    House Republicans weigh coup against Boehner after series of political defeats

    Retreat in Homeland Security shutdown showdown latest embarrassment for GOP leaders

    By S.A. Miller - The Washington Times - Thursday, March 5, 2015

    Rank-and-file Republicans are openly contemplating a coup against House Speaker John A. Boehner and his top lieutenants after a series of self-inflicted legislative fumbles and political defeats in the first weeks of the congressional session.

    This week’s retreat from the standoff over Homeland Security Department funding and President Obama’s deportation amnesty was only the latest embarrassment for Republican leaders, who also have had to yank bills on abortion, border security and education after rebellions within their own party.

    Rep. Andy Harris, Maryland Republican, conceded that running the conference was like “herding cats” but said that is not an excuse for failure.

    “I’m still optimistic that leadership can herd the cats. But if they can’t, then I think there will be consideration about whether a new leadership team needs to be put in place,” Mr. Harris said.

    The leaders have acknowledged stumbles at the opening of the congressional session, when Republicans took control of the Senate as well as the House and members had high expectations for advancing a conservative agenda. But leaders have insisted that they don’t need dramatic changes in how they run the conference, a Republican aide said.

    House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, California Republican, prides himself on having an open-door policy and listening to members, but conservative lawmakers say the leadership team hasn’t been listening to them or their constituents.

    “I don’t think they are listening to all the members,” said Rep. John Fleming, a member of a small band of lawmakers who formed the conservative Freedom Caucus and have been at the center of rebellions against the leadership.

    He said the party leaders haven’t kept up with an increasingly conservative Republican base that is electing lawmakers who are more conservative.

    “The problem is we are used to being in this moderate lane and the people, our constituents who are sending us here, are trying to move us over into the more conservative lane,” said the Louisiana Republican. “I think the struggle is that leadership has not yet picked up the trim line that they need to put out more conservative legislation to get better results.”

    Supporters of the leadership team blame the dysfunction on conservatives such as Mr. Fleming, who they say sabotage good legislation by demanding perfect bills and ideological purity.

    “Our problem isn’t leadership around here; it’s followership,” said Rep. Tom Cole, an Oklahoma Republican who is a close ally of Mr. Boehner.

    “We have a group of people who, frankly, think they are always right and their leaders and the conference collectively are usually wrong,” he said. “It’s actually a fairly small group.”

    Rep. Peter T. King, New York Republican, put it more bluntly: “I don’t consider them conservatives. I consider them anarchists.

    “The whole party is going to suffer, not just the leadership, all of us are going to suffer if we can’t get more organized. But I don’t know if that group of about 35 wants to be organized. It’s almost as if they sit by themselves in the floor there — like a separate party, like in France or Italy where you have the rump parties out there,” Mr. King said.

    Not all of the leadership’s dust-ups have been with conservatives.

    The first blunder occurred with a bill that would ban abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy, with an exception for cases of reported rape, incest or danger to the mother’s life. The leaders pulled the bill Jan. 21 to head off a revolt by some of the conference’s female and moderate members.

    “We’re continuing to listen to everybody,” Mr. McCarthy said at the time. “We’re still planning on moving forward with the bill.”

    The bill has yet to return.

    A week later, a border security bill was pulled amid complaints from conservatives that it was too weak. The legislation is expected to return combined with other bills that beef up interior enforcement of immigration laws.

    The third bill pulled off the floor would have rolled back parts of the No Child Left Behind Act, but conservatives balked that it didn’t do enough to get the federal government out of education.

    Mr. Fleming said the education bill underscored the disconnect between Republican congressional leaders and voters.

    “That’s the reason why there is frustration out there,” he said. “Time and time again, our constituents are telling us, ‘No, we don’t want federal mandating on school education. We want that left to the states.’ And yet somehow there are people who are making decisions up here who think that, ‘No, we just need to have just a little less federal control but not hand it over to the states.’”

    Still, Mr. Cole said the Republican conference isn’t going to oust its leadership team.

    “People really recognize that the problem is in the culture of the conference; it’s not with the leadership of the conference. So we have to work through this as a family and get to a point where we all — or at least 218 of us — are willing to work together,” he said. “If you can’t do that, you’re going to have a hard time accomplishing the things you said you wanted to do when you came here.”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...oehner-lieute/
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Well, I support the leadership pulling the abortion bill, that bill is wrong. Leave girls and women alone to make their own choices. Females are fully capable of deciding on their own without any assistance or restriction from a bunch of old men in Congress or "voters", whether or not they want to have a baby or stop/terminate an unwanted pregnancy. If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one.

    On education, if the federal government continues to hand out $1,000 or so per student plus other funding for Head Start, Free School Lunch, Youth Employment and Training. In 2014, the total all these programs cost federal taxpayers over $105 billion. Every 10 years, that's well over $1 Trillion. Maybe Congress should look closer at the request for the feds to get out of it. I assume the conservatives pushing the feds to stop issuing mandates mean they also don't want the feds to stop issuing money. I would totally support that.
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    When ALIPAC led the charge to ouster Boehner and McConnell last month we explained this is what would happen. The US Congress will continue to suck until someone better than Boehner is elected as Speaker.

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  4. #4
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Well, I support the leadership pulling the abortion bill, that bill is wrong. Leave girls and women alone to make their own choices. Females are fully capable of deciding on their own without any assistance or restriction from a bunch of old men in Congress or "voters", whether or not they want to have a baby or stop/terminate an unwanted pregnancy. If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one.
    Exactly how long does it take a women or couple to decide when to abort? A baby can survive outside the womb at 22 weeks. Personally, I think 20 weeks is a good target. Furthermore, I believe 14 year old children shouldn't be making such choices without parental involvement. IMO, when a baby can survive outside the womb he or she has the right to life, so the abortion of a baby after 22 weeks is murder in my book. Oh well, and for the record, I don't support gay marriage either.

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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Exactly how long does it take a women or couple to decide when to abort? A baby can survive outside the womb at 22 weeks. Personally, I think 20 weeks is a good target. Furthermore, I believe 14 year old children shouldn't be making such choices without parental involvement. IMO, when a baby can survive outside the womb he or she has the right to life, so the abortion of a baby after 22 weeks is murder in my book. Oh well, and for the record, I don't support gay marriage either.
    A 14 year old is fully capable of knowing if she wants to have a baby or not, and she's also the one who knows her parents best and whether or not they should be involved one way or another.

    I respect your opinion about life, and I respect life, the life of the 14 year old and the numerous other females, girls and women who don't want to have a child at a time when they experience an unwanted pregnancy. It doesn't matter what individual opinions are on these personal matters, everyone is entitled to their own view and their own choice in their own lives. The issue is whether one side with one opinion should deploy the power of the government into the process, and the clear answer is no, this is not a proper role for government, it's harmful, invasive and inappropriate. These matters should remain private between the girl/woman and her doctors, and the family only to the extent she desires it.

    As to the 20 weeks, only 20 to 25% of babies born at 23 weeks survive and the cost to save them is extraordinary, whereas at 26 weeks, the survival rate is 90%, but still with an extraordinary cost. So what you're basing your target on is solely based on medical science and technology, not natural life. A 20 week fetus without extraordinary applications of medical science and technology will not survive on its own, nor will one at 22 weeks, or 23 weeks, or 26 weeks. So there is no natural right to life until the baby is born, and in my book, terminating that life is not murder on any level by anyone. It's a pragmatic decision to ensure the pregnant female can live her life as a free person until she's ready to become a mother at her own choosing on her own terms, which of course, is the best choice for everyone involved, including society.

    As to how long it takes for a girl or woman to decide to abort? It might take awhile because there's a cost involved and they need time to find the money to pay for it.
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  6. #6
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    A 14 year old is fully capable of knowing if she wants to have a baby or not, and she's also the one who knows her parents best and whether or not they should be involved one way or another.

    I respect your opinion about life, and I respect life, the life of the 14 year old and the numerous other females, girls and women who don't want to have a child at a time when they experience an unwanted pregnancy. It doesn't matter what individual opinions are on these personal matters, everyone is entitled to their own view and their own choice in their own lives. The issue is whether one side with one opinion should deploy the power of the government into the process, and the clear answer is no, this is not a proper role for government, it's harmful, invasive and inappropriate. These matters should remain private between the girl/woman and her doctors, and the family only to the extent she desires it.

    As to the 20 weeks, only 20 to 25% of babies born at 23 weeks survive and the cost to save them is extraordinary, whereas at 26 weeks, the survival rate is 90%, but still with an extraordinary cost. So what you're basing your target on is solely based on medical science and technology, not natural life. A 20 week fetus without extraordinary applications of medical science and technology will not survive on its own, nor will one at 22 weeks, or 23 weeks, or 26 weeks. So there is no natural right to life until the baby is born, and in my book, terminating that life is not murder on any level by anyone. It's a pragmatic decision to ensure the pregnant female can live her life as a free person until she's ready to become a mother at her own choosing on her own terms, which of course, is the best choice for everyone involved, including society.

    As to how long it takes for a girl or woman to decide to abort? It might take awhile because there's a cost involved and they need time to find the money to pay for it.
    Well, just like the so-called fair tax and Keystone pipeline, looks like there is another issue we strongly disagree on.

    As for a 14 year old girl not needing parental involvement in a medical procedure such as abortion, you're definitely to the extreme left of me and most other parents in the free world. As a parent, you're darn skippy I support parental involvement in ANY medical procedure involving one of my CHILDREN. We're talking about children here, not adults. Heck, we don't even allow children to drive until they are 16, or join the military until age 17, and that is with parental consent! It's a scientific fact that children do not fully understand the future consequences of their actions.

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  7. #7
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Well, just like the so-called fair tax and Keystone pipeline, looks like there is another issue we strongly disagree on.

    As for a 14 year old girl not needing parental involvement in a medical procedure such as abortion, you're definitely to the extreme left of me and most other parents in the free world. As a parent, you're darn skippy I support parental involvement in ANY medical procedure involving one of my CHILDREN. We're talking about children here, not adults. Heck, we don't even allow children to drive until they are 16, or join the military until age 17, and that is with parental consent! It's a scientific fact that children do not fully understand the future consequences of their actions.
    Again, a female child knows whether or not she wants to have a baby without pressure from parents she doesn't on her own want to discuss it with. Sure, all parents would like to know if their daughters are having an abortion, but it's not in her best interest to tell them unless she believes it is. When young people join the military or drive a car, they're involving the public, public funds to pay them, public highways to drive on. There is no public role in the abortion process. The public doesn't pay for it, they don't use public facilities, they pay for the service performed at private facilities, and whatever they decide is their choice, and requiring children to notify their parents they're pregnant will work fine for those who would have shared the information to begin with, but it does not work for children who are not comfortable with disclosing that to their parents for any variety of reasons.

    Whatever they decide, will be in their best interest. The only consequence of having an abortion is not having a baby which I think we can at least agree is not usually going to be the best route for an unemployed, unmarried 14 year old who doesn't want to have one. For those who want to have a baby, the parents will know soon enough and can give parental consent and pay for a child birth delivery.

    Well, actually I'm not left of you. I'm an old fashioned Republican who believes there are proper limited roles for government and improper ones. The income tax is a mandate that puts government in an improper role of not only stealing income and earnings but invading the privacy of a person or business to determine the income, it's also a tool of manipulation, using deductions and tax credits to lure behavior the government wants instead of what the individual feels is best for themselves. Government involvement in medical procedures like abortions or any other for that matter unless the government is paying for it is as equally wrong, because government has no place in the breeding patterns or decisions of the American people with respect to their reproduction. I don't even want the government involved in health care. I oppose using Medicaid funds to pay for funding pregnancies and child birth, because it's an elective procedure.

    Medicaid even has a "pregnancy only" coverage with much higher income levels than regular Medicaid. Now explain that. That needs to be repealed and no pregnancy coverage provided by Medicaid unless you were laid off work after you got pregnant and are without an income you were otherwise depending on.

    Yes, I support the FairTax to get the government out of as much of our lives and businesses as possible.

    Yes, I support the Keystone Pipeline, because it's a business to business transcontinental pipeline that benefits our market and consumers and so far, there's no environmental issue associated with it that sticks.

    So, I think I'm actually to the right of you, not to the left, because you prefer more government involvement in our money, business and lives which is a leftist thing than I do, which makes me more right.

    Last edited by Judy; 03-06-2015 at 03:21 PM.
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