Thread: Human Smugglers Leave Migrants to Die in California Desert

What is it about "no aid from or trade with the US" that you don't understand? No aid means no "subsidizing at taxpayer expense."

But please continue pushing all the other things you want to do to secure the hen house. I have no problem with that at all, we just need something big, strong, dramatic, cheap and quick to stop the flow and economic sanctions will do that. It may not stop it all, but it will stop a lot of it and costs nothing to implement.

Originally Posted by Judy

What is it about "no aid from or trade with the US" that you don't understand?

I am all for pulling all aid, and have been for years, but not because I think it will keep them from coming.

This "no aid or trade with the US" is like the ankle monitor, catch and release, detention argument, it is a distraction from what needs to be done.

Perhaps when the government runs out of fresh ideas about ways to distract us, they can hire Judy to give them new ideas.

Pulling the trade keeps them from coming and pulling the aid makes sure US taxpayers don't pay for the consequences. It's actually a great plan because it's available now, not some time down the road, it punishes the countries responsible for breaking our laws and demeaning our sovereignty, and doesn't cost US anything.

Originally Posted by Judy

Pulling the trade keeps them from coming and pulling the aid makes sure US taxpayers don't pay for the consequences. It's actually a great plan because it's available now, not some time down the road, it punishes the countries responsible for breaking our laws and demeaning our sovereignty, and doesn't cost US anything.

That's where you're absolutely failing to understand the major flaw in your proposal. Like I said, installing economic sanctions, including pulling aid, will only force more illegals to come. What you're pushing for is to make life tougher than it already is in these countries. Exactly what do you think the response from the people suffering more financial hardship will be? Duh, it will make more of them want to leave.

Furthermore, your assessment that economic sanctions will make Mexico and Central America countries leadership stop illegal immigration is wrong too because the government wants the remittances to keep rolling in. Stopping the remittances will create more problems for government than any economic sanctions we create would! This isn't brain science. It's very basic stuff and should be easy to comprehend.

The following is in billions:

	Remittances	GDP of recipient country (nominal)	% of GDP of recipient country (nominal) supplied by remittances
Mexico	25.2	1,143.79	2.2%
China	16.3	11,064.66	0.14%
India	11.5	2,088.84	0.53%
Philippines	10.1	291.96	3.46%
Vietnam	7	193.6	3.62%
Guatemala	5.8	63.79	9.09%
Nigeria	5.7	481.06	1.18%
El Salvador	4	25.85	15.47%
Dominican Republic	3.7	67.10	5.51%
Honduras	3.3	20.15	16.38%

Do you really think the governments from Mexico and Central America are going to be willing to give up those remittances to help us secure our country? Come on, time to get real! Your reasoning has them giving up billions for millions! What fool would do that?

It's the constitutional duty of our President and U.S. Congress to secure our nation!

What is it about "no aid from and no trade with the United States" do you not understand? Under economic sanctions NO money flows from the US into the sanctioned country, NO REMITTANCES DURING SANCTIONS.

I'm beginning to understand now why you don't support Judy's Plan B, you don't understand how economic sanctions work. Economic Sanctions CUT OFF the US money supply to these countries. No bank, no Walmart, no Western Union, no Paypal, no nothing can send US dollars into these countries from the United States, not in government aid, not in business or trade, not from illegal enterprises, not by legal immigrants, not by citizens, not by illegal aliens or anything or anyone else. The two exceptions will be food and energy closely monitored.

Originally Posted by Judy

What is it about "no aid from and no trade with the United States" do you not understand? Under economic sanctions NO money flows from the US into the sanctioned country, NO REMITTANCES DURING SANCTIONS.

I'm beginning to understand now why you don't support Judy's Plan B, you don't understand how economic sanctions work. Economic Sanctions CUT OFF the US money supply to these countries. No bank, no Walmart, no Western Union, no Paypal, no nothing can send US dollars into these countries from the United States, not in government aid, not in business or trade, not from illegal enterprises, not by legal immigrants, not by citizens, not by illegal aliens or anything or anyone else. The two exceptions will be food and energy closely monitored.

Oh, so now you're moving the goal post and calling for no remittances. Wow, that even makes your plan more unworkable than before. You're just being ridiculous now if you actually think there is even a hint that Judy's Plan "B" would ever be a serious consideration .... it's now reached the point of being a joke.

Stop money orders, paypal, western union, etc. and they'll send cash. Hmm, are you then going to stop the post office from selling stamps to illegals so they can't send cash home? Are you going to station ICE at all the post offices?

The deeper we dig, the more absurd and complicated your proposal is becoming. Do you honestly think you can stop remittances. To stop illegals from sending money homes means you'll also have to stop citizens from sending money to these countries. Of course that would mean you would have to physically inspect all letters, boxes, etc. leaving our country destined for the countries on your list. You and I know that isn't possible. Also, are you now going to make Wal-Mart worker, postal workers, grocery store clerks, etc. immigration officers? Hmm, does this mean we must produce an I.D. to purchase a stamp? Do you see where I'm going with this? Your plan is full of holes, no, I actually mean canyons! Time to stop being ridiculous and give up on an argument you lost long ago.

Nope, having our President and Congress do their constitutional duty of securing our borders against illegal alien intrusion is the only real answer.

Of course no remittances. Remittances are trade. That's how Western Union makes a living, they sell money transfers, that's how Paypal survives, that's why banks charge you bank wire fees and Walmart charges you "money gram" fees. It's TRADE. No US bank can process a check, that's their "banking trade". It's all shut-down. Why do you think the US Treasury Department is responsible for enforcing economic sanctions? Because they control the money supply in and out of the United States and US banking system.

Of course citizens, businesses, anyone or any entity in the US will NOT be able to send any money to any of these sanctioned countries for any reason, except food and energy entities if they give normal waivers for those, as I expect they will/would do.

You need to back up and go learn what "no aid from or trade with the United States" means under US economic sanctions.

Originally Posted by Judy

Of course no remittances. Remittances are trade. That's how Western Union makes a living, they sell money transfers, that's how Paypal survives, that's why banks charge you bank wire fees and Walmart charges you "money gram" fees. It's TRADE. No US bank can process a check, that's their "banking trade". It's all shut-down. Why do you think the US Treasury Department is responsible for enforcing economic sanctions? Because they control the money supply in and out of the United States and US banking system.

Of course citizens, businesses, anyone or any entity in the US will NOT be able to send any money to any of these sanctioned countries for any reason, except food and energy entities if they give normal waivers for those, as I expect they will/would do.

You need to back up and go learn what "no aid from or trade with the United States" means under US economic sanctions.

There are various forms of economic sanctions and the sanctions you're calling for will have negative unintended consequences because it will drive more illegals into our country, not stop them. We're not talking about China or Iran here, we're talking about countries within walking distance. Make life even tougher than it already is and more of them will come. Of course their government won't stop them because the remittances must continue to flow and that's something we can't stop without getting rid of illegals. Anyone, other than you, that has read what I've posted on this thread can clearly see what I'm talking about clearly logical.

As for stopping remittances, what's to stop me from going to Wal-Mart and buying a visa card and placing it in an envelope and sending it to Mexico? Absolutely nothing, sanctions or not. What's to stop me from wrapping several $100 dollar bills in a piece of notebook paper, placing them in an envelope, and mailing them to Mexico? Once again, absolutely nothing. I could list other examples, but why bother since your ignorant of actual fact. Your plan would not stop remittances.

A US visa card could not be used in Mexico. US issued credit cards are .... TRADE. Sticking $100 bills into an envelope and mailing it to someone in Mexico would technically violate sanctions, but, hee, hee, good luck with that one.