IDs unequal across the board

[girlengineer]

IDs unequal across the board
Michael Kiefer
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 16, 2008 12:00 AM

If you're an underage drinker caught trying to get into a bar with a fake driver's license, you might get charged with a misdemeanor - if you get charged at all.

But if you're an illegal immigrant who presents a questionable Mexican driver's license to a Phoenix police officer, you'll likely get charged with a felony forgery, held in jail without bond, convicted and deported - sometimes even when the document is real.

Defense attorneys want to know why there appears to be a different standard applied to non-U.S. citizens when the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law, regardless of immigration status.

Few law-enforcement or prosecutorial agencies would address the issue of the two-tier system, and it is next to impossible to gauge how widespread the practice is.

But the effects are clear: Many Mexican nationals arrested end up pleading guilty to a felony and agreeing to leave the country rather than spend more time in jail.

And the price they pay is high, effectively forfeiting the right ever to re-enter the country legally or become naturalized U.S. citizens.

Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas, who has championed tough sanctions against illegal immigrants, acknowledges that charging and convicting them of felonies is an effective de facto deportation tool, especially since illegal immigrants charged with felonies are held without bail under Proposition 100.

However there is no clear-cut line to define what constitutes charging someone with a misdemeanor vs. a felony for a fake driver's license. The decision is made at the discretion of prosecutors.

The felony charge hinges on the intent to commit fraud, but prosecutors and defense attorneys alike admit that it's difficult to prove what fraud is being committed.

"What's the fraud?" asked Lisa Posada, a defense attorney in private practice who has handled several of these cases.

She, like many defense attorneys, notes that most of the Mexicans arrested present documents that bear their true names, photos and dates of birth - even if the documents themselves may be illegitimate.

"How come a college girl in Tempe with a fake ID gets charged with a misdemeanor, and a Mexican with a fake ID gets charged with Class-4 felony, when there's a statute on point saying it's a misdemeanor?" Posada asked.

Posada has had both types of clients. But the Mexicans, she said, usually enter into plea agreements and are removed from the country.

"A lot of them plead guilty because they just want to get out of jail," Posada said.

And in those cases, what constituted the fraud, or even whether the licenses were truly falsified, are never determined.


Immigration tool
Whether intended or not, charging Mexican nationals with felony forgery instead of misdemeanor possession of a counterfeit driver's license allows officials to take advantage of Proposition 100, the law that passed overwhelmingly in 2006.

Proposition 100 was billed as a way to deny bond to illegal immigrants accused of "serious crimes." But the term "serious crimes" has no legal meaning, so the Legislature stepped in and defined them as Class 1-4 felonies, encompassing everything from murder and rape down to shoplifting. "Serious" now includes burglars, perjurers, and those who conspire to commit human smuggling, the charge in place for all people caught with coyotes. Forgery with intent to commit fraud is a Class-4 felony.

Coupled with the 2006 human smuggling law, the new Employer Sanctions Law, and the Maricopa County Sheriff's agreement with federal immigration authorities allowing deputies to verify immigration status of arrestees, Proposition 100 has become an effective tool to combat illegal immigration.

Thomas, who had a hand in passing those laws, admits as much.

"These laws, working in concert, are providing a backstop, at least here in Maricopa County," Thomas said in an interview last fall. Except for those who are accused of truly dangerous crimes, most of the individuals are offered plea agreements to low-level felonies and probation if they agree to leave the country. Most defendants take the pleas rather than wait in jail. So they are then deported with a felony conviction, a disincentive to return, because a subsequent arrest can put them in federal prison for up to 20 years.

"The policy of requiring a felony conviction for any plea agreement is an important one," Thomas said. "That conviction will harm their ability to immigrate here legally and become a citizen.

"In a sense, it is this office's attempt to enforce a no-amnesty program. It's hard for somebody with a felony conviction to receive amnesty down the road for citizenship purposes, so it serves that additional purpose. All the better, as far as I'm concerned."


Officials mum on practice
There is no way of determining how many forgery cases were pleaded out because the Maricopa County Attorney's Office will not say how many have been prosecuted. Spokesman Barnett Lotstein says that the Arizona public-records laws do not require the office to search such information. And Thomas would not specifically address the driver's license cases.

But last year, Phoenix police alone arrested nearly 2,500 people and booked them for forgery with intent to commit fraud; most were related to foreign driver's licenses or other identification cards. The arrests were made after officers compared licenses with photographs in a commercially published book also used by bar bouncers to weed out fake IDs. The court testimony of those officers has recently come under fire. Not every Valley police agency resorts to the serious felony charges when people they stop, usually during traffic stops, produce Mexican driver's licenses.

Mesa police do not file the charge; other law-enforcement agencies, such as Phoenix police, do.

Phoenix Public Safety Manager Jack Harris, who has said he does not support his officers' conducting routine immigration enforcement, did not want to talk about Mexican driver's licenses, either.

In an official statement, Harris said, "Phoenix police policy states it is not the department's intent to arrest anyone for the purpose of deportation. It is my preference that anyone who is arrested, found guilty and is then sentenced for any crime will serve their sentence prior to any other action. The prosecution of those suspects arrested on felony charges is the responsibility of the Maricopa County Attorney's Office and it is their decision on how to proceed with each individual case.

"When Phoenix police officers encounter persons who produce or possess a fraudulently produced instrument such as a driver's license or identification card those persons will be arrested for the most appropriate and serious violation, which in these cases would be a felony."
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... s0317.html

[girlengineer]

More bull from Mexizona.

A liberal 'interpretation' of the 14th amendment and a stretch at that.

They're pushing ID theft as not something that is absolutely devestating to the person it is stolen from but more like a teenie bopper trying to use a fake id to buy beer.

[CherieDawn]

Typically when a teenager uses a fake ID, they have not stolen anyone's Identity. They usually alter the ID of themselves. When an Illegal Alien has a fake ID, it usually is NOT there real name. It is someone else's identity.. That would be the big difference.

[NoBueno]

But if you're an illegal immigrant who presents a questionable Mexican driver's license to a Phoenix police officer, you'll likely get charged with a felony forgery, held in jail without bond, convicted and deported - sometimes even when the document is real

This is an outright lie! An illegal invader would never be charged with a felony for presenting a "questionable" Mexican Drivers License! How would they even verify it's "questionable." Do you think Arizona Law Enforcement is going to call Mexico to verify a Mexican Drivers License. I wantto see the specific facts of the case in which they are refering to in which this happened. If it did happen, i'm sure the officers had every reason to believe the document presented was suspect.

More than likely, these illegals are presenting "questionable" Arizona Drivers Licenses, obtained through fradulent documents, which if proven in a court of law, is and should be a felony!

Of course, it sounds favorable to the illegal invader sympathizers to claim that illegals are being deported simply by showing a mexican drivers license.

[miguelina]

"How come a college girl in Tempe with a fake ID gets charged with a misdemeanor, and a Mexican with a fake ID gets charged with Class-4 felony, when there's a statute on point saying it's a misdemeanor?" Posada asked.

Uhh, maybe because the college girl is a citizen and the Mexican is an illegal alien?!?!?!??!

[NoBueno]

The illegal invader sympathizers and illegal invaders seem to have absolutely no shame! They want to ignore and erase the fact the illegals are here in violation of Fed Law and have no right to be here.

They frame their arguments under the assumption the illegal invader has the same rights and privileges as an American Citizen. That the illegal is on par with an American Citizen. This is dishonest and makes any argument they make meaningless.

[azwreath]

But if you're an illegal immigrant who presents a questionable Mexican driver's license to a Phoenix police officer, you'll likely get charged with a felony forgery, held in jail without bond, convicted and deported - sometimes even when the document is real

This is an outright lie! An illegal invader would never be charged with a felony for presenting a "questionable" Mexican Drivers License! How would they even verify it's "questionable." Do you think Arizona Law Enforcement is going to call Mexico to verify a Mexican Drivers License. I wantto see the specific facts of the case in which they are refering to in which this happened. If it did happen, i'm sure the officers had every reason to believe the document presented was suspect.

More than likely, these illegals are presenting "questionable" Arizona Drivers Licenses, obtained through fradulent documents, which if proven in a court of law, is and should be a felony!

Of course, it sounds favorable to the illegal invader sympathizers to claim that illegals are being deported simply by showing a mexican drivers license.

I think this might be a skewed accounting of a recent case here in the East Valley where an officer had confiscated the license of an older gentleman after he had stopped the vehicle for illegally backing up in the roadway. The man's license looked suspicious to the officer who confiscated it but it was later found to be geuine.

There's still a whole big thing going on about it....accusations of racism, calling for the officer to be fired, all the usual stuff....although it's not getting much attention anymore.

[NoBueno]

Thanks azwreath for that extra bit of info! If this is the case, it's outrageous they would use this one particular case and present it as if there were some epidemic of illegals being pulled over and prosecuted because they were alleged to have presented "questionable" Mexican Licenses.

But it's not surprising regarding the MSM's outright favorable disposition towards the illegal invaders in this country.

[azwreath]

Thanks azwreath for that extra bit of info! If this is the case, it's outrageous they would use this one particular case and present it as if there were some epidemic of illegals being pulled over and prosecuted because they were alleged to have presented "questionable" Mexican Licenses.

But it's not surprising regarding the MSM's outright favorable disposition towards the illegal invaders in this country.

You're welcome.

I'm sure that there have been illegals pulled over and were found to be carrying fraudulent Mexican licenses....heck, US citizens can be pulled over and found to be carrying fraudulent state licenses too....and I'm sure they have been prosecuted for it just like they should be.

There is a very big difference between prosecution for actual forged documents and "questionable" ones. Even the man who had his license confiscated was not prosecuted for having a license the officer found, in his own words "questionable".

That comparison by the reporter was very irresponsible.

[NoBueno]

There is a very big difference between prosecution for actual forged documents and "questionable" ones. Even the man who had his license confiscated was not prosecuted for having a license the officer found, in his own words "questionable".

Excellent point azwreath! Carrying a "questionable" license or other document is not a crime. Being prosecuted, and proven beyond a reasonable that you were carrying a forged or fradulent document is a crime!