Thread: Illegal aliens can have gun rights, appeals court rules

Unlawful immigrants can have gun rights, appeals court rules

By Bruce Vielmetti of the Journal Sentinel
Aug. 24, 2015 4:43 p.m.

In the case of a Milwaukee man deported over a single .22 caliber cartridge, a federal appeals court ruled last week that even unlawful immigrants can be part of the "the public" that enjoys a Second Amendment right to keep a gun for self defense.

The U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeas said even undocumented immigrants can be part of "the people" protected by the Bill of Rights, though it upheld the man's conviction on a specific law that prohibits most such persons from having guns.

"It is now clear that the Second Amendment right to bear arms is no second-class entitlement, (and) we see no principled way to carve out the Second Amendment and say that the unauthorized (or maybe all noncitizens) are excluded," Judge Diane Wood wrote for a panel that included judges Richard Easterbrook and Joel Flaum.

"No language in the Amendment supports such a conclusion, nor, as we have said, does a broader consideration of the Bill of Rights."

Because four other federal circuit courts have come to the opposite conclusion, legal commentators were quick to suggest the issue of whether undocumented immigrants have Second Amendment rights could now be headed for the U.S. Supreme Court.

While rejecting the idea that undocumented immigrants could never have any rights under the Second Amendment, Wood noted that even for citizens, those rights are not unlimited. She found that a federal law tailored to keep guns out of the hands of undocumented immigrants — like gun restrictions imposed on felons and those convicted of domestic violence — was constitutional, and upheld the conviction on those grounds.

According to the opinion:
Mariano Meza-Rodriguez's parents brought him to the U.S. from Mexico when he was 4. He grew up in Milwaukee and attended Milwaukee Public Schools, but he never became a citizen or obtained papers allowing him to remain in the U.S. legally.

A federal law makes it illegal for someone in that status, what the court called an "unauthorized immigrant," to possess firearms or ammunition. The prohibition also covers people in the U.S. on non-immigrant visas.

The 7th Circuit found such restrictions advanced the government's interest in controlling crime, because people without documentation are harder to find and could more easily evade authorities.

Meza-Rodriguez was arrested in 2012 following a bar fight . Though some witnesses had said Meza-Rodriguez may have had a gun earlier in the night, all police found was the single .22 round. He was indicted on the federal charge.

Meza-Rodriguez moved for dismissal on the grounds the charge interfered with his Second Amendment right to bear arms for self defense. Prosecutors said that he had no such rights as an undocumented immigrant, and U.S. District Judge Rudolph Randa agreed.

Meza-Rodriguez pleaded guilty and was sentenced to time served, but also deported to Mexico. Now a felon, he cannot ever be legally admitted to the U.S.
Because a victory on appeal would give Meza-Rodriguez at least a chance of readmission to the U.S., the court said, his appeal was not rendered moot by his deportation.

The opinion cites other cases that attached Fourth Amendment and 14th Amendment rights to unauthorized immigrants when they have substantial connections to the U.S., and found Meza-Rodriguez's ties to be sufficient.

The government argued that Meza-Rodriguez's "unsavory traits, including his multiple brushes with the law, failure to file tax returns, and lack of a steady job, demonstrate that he has not sufficiently accepted the obligations of living in American society."

The 7th Circuit disagreed, but did find that Second Amendment rights are not unlimited, and upheld the restriction on unauthorized immigrants' possession of weapons and ammunition on narrower grounds, equating it to gun possession bans imposed on the mentally ill, felons and those convicted of domestic violence.

In a concurring opinion, Judge Flaum joined the result but said he would not go as far saying undocumented immigrants might have Second Amendment protections, since the court didn't need to address that question to decide Meza-Rodriguez's case.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/u...322737461.html

If they're here, they have most rights, that's why they must not be here, that's why they must be deported.

Just. Deport. Them.

Get them out of here and swoosh, there goes all their problems with them, meaning they are no longer our problems. We have enough of our own, we don't need to import them.

Oh my God! How in the world did the United States fall so low as to have judges as crazy as Judge Diane Wood???

W

Soon we'll have armed illegal aliens marching in the streets demanding their rights.

• 50 Black Protesters in Ferguson with AR- 15’s for an Epic Rights March
  
  
  
  • Municipal court judge in Ferguson, Missouri, orders withdrawal of all arrest warrants

Originally Posted by Judy

If they're here, they have most rights, that's why they must not be here, that's why they must be deported.

Just. Deport. Them.

Get them out of here and swoosh, there goes all their problems with them, meaning they are no longer our problems. We have enough of our own, we don't need to import them.

And if we can't get the authorities to do their job in deporting them, we have to use our own means. That's why I keep saying that we have to educate people in how to crack down on them via business law. But the longer they stay here the more determined they will become to stay in the shadows if that is the only way they know how. I keep raising the issue of ubiquitous tax evasion, but nobody seems to care anyway.

More convincing evidence Rule of Law is gone in America. I dread to think what's next?

Originally Posted by Captainron

And if we can't get the authorities to do their job in deporting them, we have to use our own means. That's why I keep saying that we have to educate people in how to crack down on them via business law. But the longer they stay here the more determined they will become to stay in the shadows if that is the only way they know how. I keep raising the issue of ubiquitous tax evasion, but nobody seems to care anyway.

Exactly. See, the irony of their presence here is if we enforce our own civil rights while they're here, they have most of the same rights, that's why we have immigration law that forbids their presence here to begin with. It's like the Plyler vs Doe decision on providing education benefits, while a terrible ruling, what the Supreme Court was essentially saying is if you don't want to pay for their education, deport them which is a simple enough solution.

The fact that they're all still here is a complete failure by the Executive Branch to do its job. Yet all they do is whine for more money to be paid and serviced without doing its job.

Huh. And here, all this time, I believed the Bill of Rights was to protect AMERICAN CITIZENS from the government...to ensure AMERICAN CITIZENS of their Constitutional rights as AMERICAN CITIZENS.

Originally Posted by florgal

Huh. And here, all this time, I believed the Bill of Rights was to protect AMERICAN CITIZENS from the government...to ensure AMERICAN CITIZENS of their Constitutional rights as AMERICAN CITIZENS.

All those provisions of the Bill of Rights say person, not citizen, because we have the protecting right to keep anyone we don't want in the country out of the country. When we don't, with few exceptions like voting and running for office, they have the same constitutional rights as citizens while they are here.

We have the right to remove and deport them. That's the right we've not used which is basically threatening our other rights. Treason in our government was also contemplated which is why our Constitution provides for impeachment and removal from office. We are suffering treason, the aiding of foreign powers at the expense of our citizens and nation. What was never contemplated by our founders was that Americans would allow it unimpeded.

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

Soon we'll have armed illegal aliens marching in the streets demanding their rights.

• 50 Black Protesters in Ferguson with AR- 15’s for an Epic Rights March
  
  
  
  • Municipal court judge in Ferguson, Missouri, orders withdrawal of all arrest warrants

I don't know what the Ferguson link
means in this context...
Can you elaborate?