Thread: LOU DOBBS-BROKEN BORDERS 11/2/2006

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Broken Borders

Then, Rep. Carolyn Maloney, D-New York, has called for investigations into the sale of American electronic voting machine manufacturer Sequoia to Venezuelan businessmen.
Coming up next, there's a yellow button on one type of e-voting machine that is a marvel. It could enable an outrageous form of vote tampering. We'll tell you which machine is involved and what, if anything, is being done about it.

DOBBS: Election workers are scrambling all over the country trying to deal with an avalanche of last-minute problems with e-voting machines. With this information just pouring in, it's difficult to understand how the electorate can feel any sense of confidence in our upcoming election.

Kitty Pilgrim reports.

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT : You really can't miss it, the yellow button at the back of the Sequoia voting machine. Tens of thousand of machines used in 16 state and Washington, D.C. That button puts the machine in manual mode so anyone can vote and repeatedly cast as many votes as they want.

Activists say it's a major problem.
TOM COURBAT, SAVE R VOTE: I worry about the poll captains having access. They're temporary workers. In many cases there aren't background checks done on them. And it's easy for them to go back there, make those changes, and vote repeatedly and not be noticed.

PILGRIM: Sequoia says this button is a standard and deliberate feature. The California Secretary of State's Office says they have security guidelines to alert poll workers to keep a close watch on the button and any tampering. All across the country, activists have called attention to vulnerabilities on all kinds of electronic voting machines, but few of those vulnerabilities have been fixed.

LOWELL FINLEY, VOTER ACTION: We're at the 11th hour and it's too late to do anything to stop the use of these e-voting machines, but it's not too late for voters to do something about it, and we're here to train volunteers so that they can get out there and observe the process and document, shine a light, on the problem that e-voting is causing in this country.

PILGRIM: All sorts of electronic glitches are showing up, screens display the wrong candidate when a button is pushed. Today in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, large print options didn't work properly, cutting off candidate names and election officials struggled with other electronic snafus.

MICHAEL VU, CUYAHOGA CO. ELECTION OFFICIAL: We just got notice from the Secretary of State's Office today that some voting units will not be reflective of Daylight Savings Time. PILGRIM: Potentially causing the machines to close down early. Technicians from the voting companies are working to sort out the last-minute problems.
PILGRIM: Today, activists pointed out that Sequoia will again have Venezuelan nationalists as support workers on the electronic machines. That's in Cook County, Illinois. Now, the workers are project managers from Smartmatic, the Venezuelan company that bought Sequoia.

Election officials say they have no way of knowing how many Venezuelans will be there but they've seen some around. Sequoia today said eight to 10 Venezuelan nationals will help with the voting machines during the elections -- Lou.
DOBBS: Hugo Chavez is sending observers and monitors for our election, I take it?
PILGRIM: I -- you know, Venezuelan nationals taking a look at our machines.

DOBBS: Well, that's wonderful. I mean, there are times I keep expecting the country to just sort of go into a group scream over these e-voting machines because it does not make any sense that we could be in this kind of vulnerable, absurd position this close ...

PILGRIM: Activists are in a group scream, and I think it's important that everyone document anything that goes wrong so that it can be known.

DOBBS: Is there a sense among those activists, in particular, we're going to have enough people monitoring these elections to be aware in time that something has happened?

PILGRIM: They are trying to set up hotlines and volunteer organizations.

DOBBS: Millions of Americans will be voting Tuesday on e-voting machines, almost wholly-owned by nationals of a foreign government. The voting machine maker Sequoia was sold last year to a company called Smartmatic. It's a company 90 percent owned by three Venezuelans, we think.

The owners deny any connection to the country's anti-American government, but more than a few people have their doubts. Among them is my guest tonight, Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney. She pushed to initiate an ongoing federal ongoing investigation of the sale.

Congresswoman, good to have you with us.

REP. CAROLYN MALONEY (D), NEW YORK: Well, I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for having me.

MATTHEWS: Let's start with Kitty Pilgrim's report tonight that we have machines out there in 16 states and Washington, D.C., Sequoias, Smartmatic, the Venezuelan company, in which someone can push a button and vote as many times as they want to? What in the world is going on?

MALONEY: Lou, this story just keeps getting worse and worse. Big yellow buttons on machines that allow people to vote as many times as they want? We've always heard about people trying to steal elections or game elections, but it seems like the technology is allowing it to go to an even higher level.

Then she reports that more Venezuelan technicians are coming in to run the machines. So my question is, why can't Americans conduct their own elections? Why can't Americans be the technicians that look at our voting machines? Why can't we have standards and an independent review that makes sure these voting machines are accurate?
DOBBS: Could these be more jobs, that President Bush says that Americans simply won't do?
MALONEY: I think every American would be very proud to be part of supporting honest elections in our country.

DOBBS: The Help America Vote Act, the law, the billions of dollars put forward four years ago -- we get to this stage today, and I'm sitting here, frankly, tonight, I'm laughing because, as a friend of mine says, when you cross the penumbra of the absurd, there is only one thing to do, and that is to laugh.

But this is scary, the potential disaster that we're facing here, isn't it? MALONEY: I a agree. And it's election season, I don't usually quote former President Ronald Reagan. He used to say, trust, but verify. And what we're seeing in our election process is very little audits. There's no oversight, there's no accountability. We can get a paper trail when we buy a cup of coffee in the morning, but we can't get a paper trail on our votes with our voting machines?

This is outrageous. I think that we should have standards, an independent panel to review these machines. And certainly, we should not have big yellow buttons that allow someone to vote as many times as they want. It's truly scary.

DOBBS: The contested presidential election of 2000, these e- voting machines, which some people thought might be helpful, rather than a potential disaster initially -- we're headed to a point where the electoral system is being laid bare for all to examine. And first and foremost amongst them are the e-voting machines that are unreliable, can be manipulated and, frankly, elections stolen.

But we have also the issue of not knowing who is registered to vote, in New York, 77,000 dead people registered to vote. We have all sorts of issues surrounding this election. Do we -- do both parties have enough people involved in monitoring themselves to assure an honest election?

MALONEY: Well, we certainly need to do much more. There's no question about it. But everyone should vote, because if you don't vote your vote's not going to be counted.

But as Kitty pointed out, that everyone should report if they see anything that they feel is not accurate or accountable. And we're moving forward, but your series -- and I congratulate you on it, has really pointed on many things that we need to do in government to make the system more secure.

The more I study it, the more questions I have, and your report tonight, or rather Kitty's, was truly astonishing. More technicians are being sent in from Venezuela? Why? Why can't Americans conduct American elections?

DOBBS: I think that is a wonderful question. But I have that question about so many jobs in this country.

I want to congratulate you, too, for taking the lead and calling upon the CFIUS, the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, Treasury Arm, to investigate this sale. And without you, that would have gone all but unnoticed. So congratulations to you and keep up the good work.

Thank you very much, Congresswoman.

MALONEY: Well, thank you very much, Lou.


An Oklahoma state employee, Steve Thomas, was punished for reporting illegal aliens who applied for state benefits.
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And state lawmakers demanding a federal investigation into the scandal over taxpayer-funded benefits for illegal aliens. Are state workers ignoring our laws and giving millions and millions of dollars of your tax money to illegal aliens? The answer is yes.
Tonight, Oklahoma State Human Services employee Steve Thomas is speaking out on his state's failure to enforce illegal immigration laws. He's fighting illegal alien benefit fraud, fraud that's costing taxpayers billions of dollars across the country. His fight almost cost him his job.

Steve Thomas joins me tonight from Oklahoma City, as well as Oklahoma State Representative Randy Terrill, who's also fighting to expose the benefit fraud. And Oklahoma Catholic Charities Attorney Shirley Cox, who denies there is a growing problem with illegal aliens receiving taxpayer-funded benefits.

Good to have you all with us. Thank you.

Steve Thomas, you testified that you -- that the Civil Rights Board told you that you scared a suspected illegal immigrant by explaining you were required to report them for seeking benefits. What has been the reaction there to that revelation?

STEVE THOMAS, OKLAHOMA DEPT. OF HUMAN SVCS.: Well, that reporting requirement is something that I felt like was entitled of every client that came into our office to know what their rights and responsibilities were and what our reporting requirements were. And I did not personally say I was going to report him. I just showed him the memo that we are required to fill out on them and sent to state office, and state office sends to immigration if they find appropriate.

It's my right to let these people know what we're doing, and in fact the memo's not even in Spanish, it's only English. So I don't see -- I see a problem with the way they are having us do our job there.

DOBBS: Well, let me ask you if I may, Randy Terrill, what in the world -- if there is a state requirement and a requirement for that notification, how can state officials there be telling the employees like Steve Thomas that this requirement is going to be suspended without any action by the legislature or by the federal government?

RANDY TERRILL, OKLAHOMA STATE HOUSE: Well, that's the question that we asked in the interim study last week, and it's not a state requirement, although we're trying to make it that. It currently is a federal requirement. And let me tell you, DHS has morphed its internal policy from what is a mandatory reporting requirement in those circumstances to essentially what is a discretionary reporting requirement.

And let me tell you, what DHS is saying, that there are no illegal aliens that are receiving these benefits, is not only false, but let me also tell you, they aren't -- they aren't reporting those who attempt to fraudulently obtain those benefits, and the DHS director admitted that in a separate state senate hearing on illegal immigration a few weeks ago.

DOBBS: Admitted it?

TERRILL: Admitted it, that there have been no cases where the Department of Human Services has reported to federal immigration authorities an illegal alien that's fraudulently attempted to obtain those benefits.

DOBBS: Shirley Cox, what's your reaction to all of this?

SHIRLEY COX, OKLAHOMA CATHOLIC CHARITIES: My reaction is that the Department of Human Services is following the federal law and federal register in September of 2000. The federal register reflects a discussion among five different agencies that came together to talk about how it would be that people should be reported under what's called the Personal Responsibility and Work Authorization Act of 1996.

Under that act, state agencies can elect -- and this is what the register said -- to simply report if an agency knows of the existence of an undocumented person. That knowing element requires a finding of fact, or a conclusion of law, that is part of an administrative determination that is subject to review, and includes documentation from the immigration service now called USCIS, but at that time called the Immigration and Naturalization Service...

DOBBS: They pretty much don't care what they are called. They are so messed up, they haven't got a clue anyway.

COX: Yes. It still requires that there is documentation from the service or from what's called (INAUDIBLE) office.

DOBBS: Shirley, you're with Catholic charities. That's a pretty high barrier. I mean, so what you're saying is, it's almost -- it's extraordinarily difficult, let me say, for anyone to deny illegal aliens benefits, then, under that high threshold?

COX: No, no, that's reporting requirements, not denial of benefits. They are denied benefits if they are not a U.S. citizen, and that's where the discussion is. But the reporting requirement is if they know.

DOBBS: Let's get to that issue. Let's get to that issue. Do we know how many applicants have been denied benefits in the state of Oklahoma, let's start with food stamps, because of -- because they are illegal aliens? Shirley, do you know?

COX: No, but if they are not U.S. citizens, they are not eligible for food stamps. So if they are...

DOBBS: Well, Steve Thomas says they're getting them. Randy Terrill says they are getting them.

TERRILL: This is -- Lou, let me be clear about this, what she's saying. She's technically telling you, according to federal law, they are not eligible to receive the benefit. She is therefore ipso facto wanting you and all your viewers to believe that they are not getting them, which is patently false. The DHS director even admitted that there are illegal aliens fraudulently using documents to obtain these public assistance benefits, specifically food stamps.

Beyond that, the scope of the problem is even greater than that, because those numbers don't take into account the anchor baby phenomenon. So once they have a child that is actually an American citizen, then they become eligible not only for the food stamps but for all the other benefits. So the scope of the problem is enormous.

DOBBS: Shirley, well, let me ask you, I'm trying to figure out your perspective here, then, if what Randy is saying is right. I mean, what is your interest in denying what is reality? COX: There is no denial of reality. The so-called anchor babies that Randy Terrill is talking about are U.S. citizens of the United States, entitled to the rights and benefits of all U.S. citizens of the United States. They are not people, they are not somehow entities that anchor these families.

They are entitled to food stamps, but that amounts to one person being entitled for food stamps. A family cannot survive on one eligibility, one person's eligibility for food stamps. So saying that they can support an entire family is simply an inaccurate statement.

And they are U.S. citizens. The 14th Amendment of the United States says any person born or naturalized in the United States is a U.S. citizen. And they are eligible for benefits if they are a U.S. citizen.

TERRILL: Lou, she's now trying to convince you that illegal aliens aren't getting any greater benefit than U.S. citizens, and that's absolutely false.

Steve is actually an eligibility determination guy. He can tell you that these illegal aliens actually get greater benefits, because the amount of income that their family receives is pro-rated, so a U.S. family of U.S. citizens at one income level who might not be eligible for food stamps, they are actually families of -- that include illegal aliens that would be eligible under the same circumstance. And not only that, they get additional daycare benefits. Here's what this boils down to...

DOBBS: We're going to have to break it here, Randy Terrill. Go ahead and finish your thought real quickly.

TERRILL: It's a license to steal from the taxpayers. The taxpayers have a right, an absolute right, to know how many illegal aliens are getting these benefits and what the cost is.

THOMAS: And what about the reporting forms? If we're not required to report them, why do they have them on our Web site? Why do we still have to follow these rules if -- are we using these forms to intimidate these people or to confuse the worker? Get rid of the forms, get rid of the policy if we're not required do it.

DOBBS: Shirley Cox, any last thought?

COX: I think that you have to take in perspective that this is a federal issue and federal law, and so we have to look to the federals -- the feds to decide what needs to be done, and the federal law has -- the federal state -- I mean, the federal...

DOBBS: The state agency, though, is administering this portion of the law.

COX: But it's federal funds. It's federal funds that are being used.

DOBBS: Ah. So we shouldn't worry about it since it's just federal money.

TERRILL: And what embarrassment, Lou...

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Oklahoma lawmakers are demanding an investigation into a state bureaucracy that they say is giving taxpayer benefits to illegal aliens.
ROMANS : Oklahoma spends $30 million a month on food stamps. State social worker Steven Thomas has seen thousands of cases where illegal aliens apply for those benefits. But the woman who oversees the program denies that federal dollars are being misspent in Oklahoma. She admits illegal aliens are awarded debit cards for food stamps for their children who are U.S. citizens, but at the same time...KATHIE WRIGHT, OKLAHOMA HUMAN SERVICES: Illegal aliens do not receive benefits knowingly through the Department of Human Services in Oklahoma.

ROMANS: Oklahoma's Department of Human Services is under intense fire from lawmakers.
here, Steve Thomas, along with Oklahoma State Representative Randy Terrill, and Oklahoma Catholic Charities attorney Shirley Cox join us to discuss the burden that illegal immigration is putting on taxpayers.

RANDY TERRILL, OKLAHOMA STATE HOUSE: They are intentionally misleading people in an attempt to make the problem look like it is less in scope than what it really is.

ROMANS: Critics say, first, illegal aliens are getting benefits meant for legal residents. And second, the state bureaucracy has abdicated its legal responsibility to report them.

Wright denies this.

WRIGHT: They are to report instances where they feel that they have an illegal alien in the home. Our process in Oklahoma is for them to report that to our state office area where we work cooperatively with them and determine if that is appropriate to them, send it on to immigration.

ROMANS: But last year no cases were referred to federal authorities. And lawmakers point to this two-year-old training video which suggests the law doesn't apply.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The federal requirement is that I report to the Department of Homeland Security once a quarter of people we believe are not here lawfully. I know, gosh, maybe -- that is actually food stamp policy. Essentially, that policy is going to be suspended, for lack of a better word, I guess.

ROMANS: There is no doubt that Oklahoma taxpayers are paying benefits for illegal aliens. According to the Oklahoma Health Care Authority, taxpayers last year spent almost $10 million on health care treating 4,450 illegal aliens. Most of the cost labor and delivery fees.

ROMANS: Those children, of course, are American citizens, and they are legally eligible for food stamps, subsidized daycare and many other benefits. It's one reason, Lou, why it becomes so difficult to count the true cost of illegal immigration.

DOBBS: And meanwhile, this plays into the hands of the open borders, illegal alien amnesty advocates and lobbying groups. And straightforwardly, this is a state official, on camera, saying that -- despite her statements -- that they are not in any way enforcing the law.

ROMANS: They are not the immigration police.

DOBBS: They are not the immigration police, but they have a law that requires them to do something.

ROMANS: Absolutely. They absolutely do.

DOBBS: It's a good thing they are not the police, because they won't follow the law.

And we should be clear. This isn't happening just in Oklahoma. It's all across the nation.

In California, 80 hospitals closed because of indigent care, primarily because of illegal aliens. American citizens again losing facilities because of what is simply an overwhelmed system.

Thanks, Christine.

Was a great show today. We're voting absentee in our household and I'm personally delivering our ballots to the registrar of voters office in the morning. We're not messing with those stupid machines.

I heard around 50 hospitals closed in my state but 80? And yet, I'm not surprised.

Numbers often get altered don't they? Like do we have 12 or 20 illegal aliens in this country? No one knows. But they are everywhere, that's become obvious.

Lou Dobbs is about the only news I listen to anymore on tv. I trust him.

lOU always has a good show...I watch O'reilly on fox and Glenn Beck also
Glenn Beck is so un-Politically correct I love him.....

I'm thinking of voting by ballot too...
i figure 20 years , over a million a year...i get 20 million+ ...but the politicans won't admit it ...because you and i would know for how many years they screwed up......
thanks for your reply
good luck in your state and voting