Thread: Man in LA SWAT Gun Battle Was Illegal Alien

It will be fascinating for us and excruciating for the Antonio Vivalaraza to hear LA's new mayor weigh in on the subject. He's in a tight spot, side with the police and he's a traidor (traitor) in the Latino community. Side with the family and he will make enough political hay to start his political futures funeral pyre, considering the guy was illegal, deported and had four or five felonies since he came back illegally again. I love seeing the lil beads of sweat popping out of his forehead when he has cameras, light and microphones in his kisser and he's firmly between a rock and a hard place when he's asked to comment on the matter! Antonio, COWBOY UP!

The way I see it he can slam the cops and get away with it in this day and age. He's in a city that is on the verge of getting annexed by a third world country. The only way that he won't get away with it is if the cop was Hispanic or black.

That's probably the only thing that is keeping both himself and Al Sharpton quiet at this point. They don't know if the cop was white or not. If they slam the cop and he turns out to be black, Hispanic, or even Asian they will both take ALOT of heat.

But if he's white? Oh baby, watch out.

Why is the media making it out like their is evidence that they found that the Cops killed the Baby? There is no evidence to support such claims and it should be taken out of content and if a riot happens we should hold the media accountable if something happens.

Either way this turns out i believe that the Cops did their job and it sad that the baby died but the Cops did their job. Would they be happier if the Cops died? Why was this man allowed to remain in this country illegally? Is anyone talking about his stasis? Nope, no one is talking about the drugs and guns the long rap sheet this individual had.

LAPD doesn’t have the great rep but they are in a tough city that needs allot of cops and what LAPD did was acceptable in my view and until their is evidence showing what happened.

Prometheus

will all of this just be justification for "illegals" to wage war against law enforcement in an attempt to cause ICE to cool it

These people in the articles are talking about the police as if they are not even human beings. How terrible it must be to even be a police officer in LA and put yourself in such danger on a constant basis.

IMHO, these people are applying a deeper sense of blame to the death of the child. Of course the father is not to blame in their eyes. He murdered his own child through his actions and is a convicted cocain dealing illegal alien with no respect for his own life or the life of others.

I think I heard that the LA SWAT has lost only two hostages in their history?

It does not shock me that those that scream "We didnt cross the borders! The borders crossed us! and "This land is our land, you stole it and we are taking it back!" Would also try to sieze on any opportunity to criticize the thin blue line that prevents them from fully turning LA into a lawless hell hole like El Nuevo Larado.

I can't understand why anyone would think those officers wanted to do anything else than save that child. Even so, there is a process and an investigation that always takes place. It appears these people have already made a judgement and their judgement is based on race.

Racist rush to judgement. Am I wrong?

W

"illegal aliens" have more lobbyist in Congress than those against illegal immigration does -- the funny thing is, these "illegals" and lobbyist do not have a "right" under the Constitution to petition OUR government for grievances, nor are they guaranteed the right to freedom of speech and freedom of the press -- those are rights guaranteed to the citizens of the states

I see the socialists are fanning the flames of peace.


www.socialistworker.org

more victims of the LAPD
“There was no way they wanted anyone alive�
By Gillian Russom | July 22, 2005 | Page 16

THE LOS Angeles Police Department (LAPD) killed Jose Raul Peña and his 19-month-old daughter Susie in a hail of 60 bullets July 10.

This is the latest incident in a long pattern of racist violence by the LAPD--including the February killing of 13-year-old Devin Brown, an African American boy who was shot 10 times while joyriding in a car.

The police story about why they opened fire on Peña and his daughter is full of contradictions. On July 10, Peña picked up his daughter and brought her to his car dealership in South Central Los Angeles, near Watts. Peña’s stepdaughter Ilsa Depaz followed her father to the dealership, where they got into an argument, and Ilsa called 911.

Police say they learned that Peña had a gun and had fired shots before they got there. But family members and some witnesses told LA Weekly say that they heard the first “pop-pop� of gunfire after the police arrived. They say that Peña didn’t fire at the neighbors, but only at police after he was cornered.

When Lorena Lopez, the baby’s mother, heard the first shots, she ran to the dealership and told police, “There’s a baby in there. Don’t shoot!� The police told her to go home.

In less than an hour, the number of cops had swelled to about 100--with snipers stationed on the rooftops surrounding the dealership and SWAT officers at the perimeters.

At this time, Lorena Lopez’s younger brother Joshua tried to get police to let him talk to Raul, but they refused. “Actually, I wanted to talk to him face-to-face,� Joshua told LA Weekly. “I know I could have made him understand. And I know he never would have done harm to his daughter.�

Less than three hours after police arrived, SWAT officers stormed the dealership, firing 60 rounds into its small office. When the gunfire stopped, Raul and Susie were dead.

“They let us inside the dealership to look at the bullet holes,� Tommy Walker, an organizer with Community Call to Action, a group that formed after the murder of Devin Brown, told Socialist Worker “The way they shot up that place, there was no way they intended anybody to come out alive.�

Nevertheless, newly elected Democratic Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa rushed to defend the police--before an investigation had even begun.

Although a police investigation has proven that police bullets killed both father and child, the LAPD, Villaraigosa and much of the media are trying to deflect blame onto Peña. They say that Raul endangered the whole neighborhood and used his daughter as a “human shield.� “This guy is not a hero,� declared Police Chief William Bratton at a press conference. “He is a cold-blooded killer.�

But the LAPD has a long record of lying to cover up its brutality. A Los Angeles Times exposé last October showed that in at least 28 police shootings--15 of them fatal--the LAPD lied and withheld information from the police commission so that the officers involved would be cleared of wrongdoing. We can’t let them blame the victim.

Several hundred community members held angry rallies at the site of the shooting every night after the murder. “The sentiment out here has been rage at the institution and love for the community,� Ami Motevalli, a high school teacher, told Socialist Worker. “Kids have been looking at the bullet holes and asking, ‘Am I next?’�

On July 14, about 300 mostly Black and Latino protesters marched in the street in front of the car dealership. Nearly 100 police were also on hand.

Raul Peña’s cousin, Juan Carpio, brought his two daughters to the rally. “I believe he needed help,� he said of his cousin. “Even when he was gunned down, he was on his cell phone, trying to get help. The cops think they’re so powerful that they can do whatever they want, and no one is going to challenge them. The African American community is out here supporting us because [the cops] have murdered so many of their kids. Villaraigosa is defending [the LAPD], but he wasn’t there. How does he know what happened?�

Erika Kindell, who lives a block from the site of the killing, told Socialist Worker that police made “a rush to judgment. If this had happened in Westwood [a predominantly white neighborhood], they would have handled it much different. They would have saved that baby’s life, even if it took a week. But because it was a poor Hispanic on this side of town they used aggressive tactics, just like with Devin Brown. It’s a mess. It’s like we’re not even seen as people down here.�

There’s an urgent need to organize community anger into a movement strong enough to force the prosecution of these killer cops. Although organizing took place after the murder of Devin Brown, much of it was channeled into a campaign to stop gang violence, instead of targeting the police and city officials.

We have to stop the LAPD before they kill again. Justice for Raul and Susie!

In less than an hour, the number of cops had swelled to about 100--with snipers stationed on the rooftops surrounding the dealership and SWAT officers at the perimeters.
. . . .

they probably reacted like that because a police officer had just been shot between the eyes when he knocked on a door

We have to stop the LAPD before they kill again. Justice for Raul and Susie!

what about justice for the ones who risks their lives to protect the lives of many ....

there will come a time where the police will not go into certain communities and who can blame them

“I know I could have made him understand. And I know he never would have done harm to his daughter.�

Yeah, right. Using an anchor baby for a human shield. What a man.

Found a couple of new stories on the shooting. Big news that I heard today was the Los Angeles Police Department revealed the little girl apparently was found in the arms of her father when they found her body. The police claimed when they removed her body they had to take her out of the dead father's arms.


www.latimes.com

Shootout Raises Too Many Questions
Steve Lopez
Points West

July 20, 2005

When SWAT officers entered the tiny office after a 2 1/2 -hour standoff in Watts 10 days ago, the 19-month-old girl they were trying to save was in her father's arms.

Moments later, the father and the girl were dead, both killed by police bullets.

I learned this from LAPD Chief William J. Bratton on Tuesday evening after visiting the site of the controversial shooting at 104th Street and Avalon Boulevard and calling the chief with questions.

I'd had some questions before visiting the scene. Afterward, I had more.

The Raul's Auto Sales building is roughly the size of a two-car garage, with an interior office the size of a toolshed. Standing inside, I was surrounded by dozens of bullet holes. It wasn't hard to imagine the intensity of the firefight that claimed the lives of the toddler and her father and left a police officer wounded.

On one wall alone, I counted 26 bullet holes. Tiny shafts of sunlight sliced through more than a dozen bullet holes in the exterior walls.

Half a block away, I had met the toddler's mother, Lorena Lopez, who came out on her front step holding a blue pajama top to her face. She told me her daughter, Suzie Marie, was wearing it the morning she was killed. Lopez said she could still smell her daughter.

I'd been reserving judgment on the shooting, which has sparked community cries for justice, because what happened on that day wasn't entirely clear. But 10 days later, it wasn't much clearer. Although police had said a lot about the incident, they hadn't said much about the most critical moments of the shootout.

It seemed obvious from the beginning that the toddler's father, Jose Raul Peña, was chiefly and unconscionably responsible for the death of his daughter. Bratton was on the money when he attacked those who defended Peña as a good man unfairly targeted by overzealous police.

"This is not a good father," Bratton snapped. "He is no hero."

But that doesn't answer everything.

Police say the 35-year-old undocumented immigrant used his toddler as a human shield while shooting at officers with a stolen gun, and that he had threatened several family members, two of whom called police for help.

In the Los Angeles Police Department's version of events, Peña fired at officers when they arrived on the scene. Pena's teenage stepdaughter, who was there for a time, later told police that Peña was flying high on cocaine and alcohol. A hostage negotiator tried to talk him into surrendering, but he allegedly said he wasn't going to jail.

Clearly, he wanted a confrontation. And he got one.

But why, exactly, did the SWAT team rush in when it did, rather than wait Peña out?

In defense of the police, they had two considerations:

What might happen to the child if they did go in.

And what might happen to her if they didn't.

Police say a SWAT team member claimed to have a clear shot at Peña from the turret of an armored vehicle. The bullet fired by the officer was believed to have wounded Peña, and five officers rushed in to rescue the toddler, assuming the father was disabled.

But Peña was still moving and shooting. He apparently retreated into the small interior office and fired through the wall at pursuing officers who braved a hail of gunfire.

SWAT team member Daniel Sanchez caught a bullet in the shoulder and went down.

A flash-bang device was tossed into the office, fogging the room with dust and smoke.

When the shooting stopped, Peña was dead.

So, too, was Suzie Marie.

The girl, with brown hair and brown eyes, had a massive bullet wound to her head and two more bullet wounds on her leg.

We could debate for months and never agree on the wisdom of the police decision to go in rather than waiting it out, and on the "clear shot" fired by the SWAT team officer.

For me, the bigger issue is what happened once police got inside. With Peña blasting away, the situation was no doubt chaotic, fast-moving and terrifying, and it goes without saying that every officer who dashed into the building was putting his life on the line to save the child.

But where was the little girl at that point?

If she was still alive, could police see her as they traded gunfire with Peña?

If so, did they assume they could still shoot him without shooting her?

Was their vision clouded by the flash-bang device?

Did Officer Sanchez fall after being hit and accidentally fire his weapon when he went down?

Since police haven't explained what happened in any detail, it's fair to wonder if, once Sanchez went down, officers might have been less restrained.

I'm not a forensic specialist, but a close look at the office wall reveals what appear to be both entry and exit holes, meaning that shots were fired out of the office (ostensibly by Peña), and into the office (ostensibly by police).

If that's the case, is it possible the girl was killed by a bullet fired blindly through a wall? And if so, why were they firing into a room when they couldn't see what was on the other side?

Chief Bratton told me he doesn't have all the answers yet, but those questions are the focus of the investigation.

He did say that Peña fired more than 40 shots, police fired more than 100, and that the toddler was in Peña's arms when he was shot and killed.

"We know that because one of the officers removed her from his arms," Bratton said.

Was she shot during the exchange in the office, then?

Bratton said he didn't know. It was possible, he said, that she was killed earlier and Peña was still holding her in his arms.

The coroner's report suggests Suzie Marie was killed by a .223-caliber rifle shot, and, as Bratton pointed out, the SWAT officers who entered the office were armed with .223s.

So it's possible, I said, that the toddler was alive when SWAT officers stormed the office, and one of them shot her.

"That's potentially correct," Bratton said.

But other officers were using .223s, the chief said, so it's possible one of them might have fired the fatal shot earlier in the standoff.

"There's no getting around the fact that she was shot by one of our officers," Bratton said.

If she was shot by one of the five officers who entered the building, Bratton said, "I do not believe they were firing blindly into walls." Those officers didn't shoot, he said, until they were inside the interior office.

If one of them fired the shot that killed the toddler, Bratton said, it may be impossible to determine who fired the fatal shot.

"We don't know and probably never will know … because the bullet was a through-and-through" â€â€