Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

  1. #1
    Senior Member Brian503a's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    California or ground zero of the invasion
    Posts
    16,029

    A Border Killing Inflames Mexican Anger at U.S. Policy

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/14/inter ... exico.html

    January 14, 2006
    A Border Killing Inflames Mexican Anger at U.S. Policy
    By JAMES C. McKINLEY Jr.
    TIJUANA, Mexico, Jan. 12 - Guillermo MartÃÂ*nez could see the promised land of Southern California from the cramped three-bedroom house he shared here with his mother, his wife and two small children.

    The smooth, dry hills of San Diego County lay just beyond the slum where he lived, past the cinder block shacks, the garbage-strewn streets and rusted-out cars, past the corrugated steel fence that marks the border, and past the taller metal-columned fence put up in the 1990's to stop people like him from crossing.

    It was in the no man's land between the fences that he was fatally shot by a United States border patrol agent just after dark on Dec. 30. His family says he was trying to get to Fresno, Calif., to take a job picking fruit. Investigators on each side, however, say he might have been trying to smuggle migrants across.

    "My boy did nothing, nothing, nothing for them to shoot him," said his mother, Ofelia RodrÃÂ*guez. "He was trying to cross to take care of his children."

    Whatever his reasons for sneaking over the border, the shooting of Mr. MartÃÂ*nez, 20, has fanned the flames of anger in Mexico over what many here see as an increasingly hard line in the United States against illegal immigrants. His death has become a rallying point for politicians of all stripes, who have condemned the shooting as a racist violation of human rights.

    Mr. MartÃÂ*nez was killed two weeks after the House of Representatives passed a bill that, among other provisions, would build an additional 700 miles of tall double fences like the one here to stop illegal immigrants.

    The proposed "frontier wall," as the barrier is called here, and Mr. MartÃÂ*nez's death have become symbols of what many Mexicans see as the deteriorating relationship between the countries and a rising tide of xenophobia in the United States.

    The wall has prompted street protests in the capital and howls of criticism from Mexican politicians and editorialists, many of whom have likened the proposal to the Berlin Wall. Two Catholic bishops, in a statement, called the proposal "absurd, shameful and intolerable" and "an aspirin against cancer."

    President Vicente Fox has called the wall "a disgrace," and a "very bad sign" that "does not befit a country that prides itself on being democratic." He took the unusual step of ordering his government to investigate the MartÃÂ*nez shooting and sent a diplomatic note to Washington demanding a full investigation.

    Human rights advocates say that, in addition to Mr. MartÃÂ*nez, at least four migrants have died in the last 15 months in run-ins with Border Patrol agents. One man was fatally shot Oct. 4 near Otay Mesa as he struggled over a gun with an agent who was trying to arrest him. Three others drowned running away from the Border Patrol agents.

    In a sign of increasing tensions, it has become more common in the past year for migrants to throw rocks at the agents trying to corral them. In the last two weeks, United States border patrol agents have come under fire twice near the Veterans International Bridge over the Rio Grande between Matamoros and Brownsville, Tex. No one was injured.

    The outrage in Mexico over the House bill and the shooting death reflects a difference in how people on each side view the border. Conservatives in the United States see the 2,000-mile long frontier as a security problem, a leaky sieve through which all manner of evils can pass: drug smugglers, petty criminals and, possibly, terrorists.

    "It's a national security issue," said Representative Duncan Hunter, a San Diego Republican who sponsored the fence amendment. "The world understands that if you want to get into this country illegally, you come across the land border with Mexico. You have to know who's coming into the country."

    Other supporters of the measure say more fences are needed near urban areas to prevent crime and because Mexican law enforcement does nothing to stop people from crossing illegally. The fence in San Diego, a 14-mile pilot project started in 1994, has substantially reduced not only the smuggling of people and drugs, but crime in general in that region, its supporters say.

    "Mexico has not been serious about helping us control our border," said Representative Dan Lungren, a Republican from Long Beach, Calif., who supports the fences. "So this griping about what we are doing seems to be a little fatuous."

    Not everyone in the United States supports building fences. Big-city Democrats, Catholic leaders, advocates for immigrants and civil-rights groups have all criticized the idea. Even some Republicans with large Hispanic constituencies, among them Gov. Rick Perry of Texas, oppose it. Mr. Perry said recently that more fences would not be as effective as increased spending for law enforcement agencies on the border.

    Mexicans, rich and poor, see a relatively porous border as an essential part of their economy. It is lost on no one in power here that migration relieves Mexico of hundreds of thousands of its poor and unemployed every year, while bringing in more income. Migrants send about $20 billion a year home to relatives.

    At the same time, the view is widely held in Mexico that the United States could not function without cheap Mexican labor, and that efforts to more tightly regulate the flow of migrants are hypocritical and racist. Mexican politicians regularly depict the migrants as heroes, people seeking a better life and braving terrible conditions to get it.

    The frustration is also compounded by the failure of the Bush administration to push through a guest worker bill that would, in essence, legalize the status of millions of illegal Mexicans immigrants working in the United States. On Wednesday, President Bush expressed support for the fence, saying it would slow the flow of migrants and illegal drugs.

    The Fox administration has argued that a guest worker law would do more to regulate the flow of immigrants than building more walls.

    Mr. MartÃÂ*nez was typical of many of the 1.2 million migrants the Border Patrol intercepts every year - poor, with no job prospects. His mother had 18 children, 9 of whom died as infants. Of the surviving children, he was the youngest.

    His father died when he was a baby. Like his siblings, he never got more than a sixth-grade education. He married at 17 and had two children before he was 20.

    Three years ago, he moved with his mother and children to Tijuana, where he made a living washing cars and doing small construction jobs, his family said. He also tried to enter the United States to find work.

    Border Patrol officials have said that Mr. MartÃÂ*nez may have also worked as a pollero, someone immigrants paid to guide them across the border. He was arrested and deported at least 12 times trying to cross the border, though he was never charged with smuggling, they said.

    His brother AgustÃÂ*n MartÃÂ*nez, 33, was convicted of smuggling migrants in the United States and served time, authorities said. In an interview, AgustÃÂ*n said he was with Guillermo at the time of the shooting, but denied they were guiding others.

    He said at least three agents spotted them about 7:30 p.m. as they tried to cross the border. One fired a shot at the brothers as they ran away. The shot hit Guillermo MartÃÂ*nez in the back and left his body through his chest. He died the next day at Cruz Roja Hospital in Tijuana.

    Lt. Kevin Rooney, a homicide investigator in the San Diego Police Department, has pieced together a different account from interviews with the agent and other sources. He said one agent, who has been identified as Fausto Campos, was guarding a post along the second fence when he received a report of people crossing about 100 yards to the east.

    When he arrived there in his car, he saw a man with a ladder in the zone between the fences, Lieutenant Rooney said. The agent, who had been on the force eight years, opened a gate, drove his car through, then spotted the man running toward the open gate. The agent jumped out to cut the man off.

    The man scooped rocks from the ground and threw them, Lieutenant Rooney said. As a rock passed his head, the agent fired his pistol once at the man, who grabbed his arm, turned and sprinted out of sight along the first fence.

    "It is a one-on-one confrontation," Lieutenant Rooney said.
    Support our FIGHT AGAINST illegal immigration & Amnesty by joining our E-mail Alerts at http://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  2. #2
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    55,883
    Well, I see no problem with what happened. Better to stay on their side of the border. I don't want to have to pay border patrol agents to chase these people. I want to pay them to stop it...whatever it takes. Entering US terroritory without permission is illegal and if you smite our laws and proceed, then you are a foreign national here in violation of our sovereign territory and we really don't care what your reason is or what your Mamma cries was your reason as she files her lawsuit.

    We really don't care anymore. You've worn out your welcome; you've insulted us; you've robbed us; you've raped us; you've murdered us; you've worn out our generosity; you've destroyed the good will; you've alienated us by daring us.

    We really don't care anymore about your plight, your situation, your dreams, your "stories", your "tales".

    We're fed up with you and your "ilk".

    Hire a lawyer in Mexico and fight for your dreams there. You want to show your cleverness and machismo?

    Do it in Mexico.

    We understand you now. We know what you're up to. We now know the real reason you re coming here.

    Your Gig is Up.

    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
    Save America, Deport Congress! - Judy

    Support our FIGHT AGAINST illegal immigration & Amnesty by joining our E-mail Alerts at https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  3. #3
    Senior Member rebellady1964's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,104
    "My boy did nothing, nothing, nothing for them to shoot him," said his mother, Ofelia RodrÃÂ*guez. "He was trying to cross to take care of his children."
    Well, if any of us were throwing rocks at a federal officer, that WOULD be considered assualt and a threat to the officer's life and we would be taken down just like this Mexican guy was. Why, why, why do the Mexican people and their government think they are above US law? From speaking with the illegals in my area and asking them questions about why they are coming here, I have found that some say jobs, many others tell me, "the benefits"(welfare, foodstamps, free schooling for their children, etc.). I have noticed the change in "attitude" among the illegal groups in this area. Most of them are not fearful of being caught for being illegal, they have seen how most illegals are just let go after an arrest has been made. I feel bad for the ones who are just really trying to support their families but we cannot feed them all. The others, the drug dealers, gang members, etc., need to be kept out of this country at all costs. The ones who are trying to feed their families need to know that we cannot keep going as a nation if we keep giving handouts to their poor when our jobs keep disappearing and we are struggling to survive ourselves. We are seeing the RUIN of this nation right now if more people do not stand up and say, "enough is enough, it has to stop".
    "My ancestors gave their life for America, the least I can do is fight to preserve the rights they died for"

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,032
    The smooth, dry hills of San Diego County lay just beyond the slum where he lived, past the cinder block shacks, the garbage-strewn streets and rusted-out cars
    Perhaps they should spend a bit of their energy getting their act cleaned up? Or do you think they're waiting for US to do that also??




    a rising tide of xenophobia in the United States.
    I'm getting a bit dizzy with their logic. If I don't want to pay the bills for someone other than my own family does that make me a xenophobe??

    The wall has prompted street protests in the capital and howls of criticism from Mexican politicians and editorialists, many of whom have likened the proposal to the Berlin Wall. Two Catholic bishops, in a statement, called the proposal "absurd, shameful and intolerable" and "an aspirin against cancer."
    Someone please tell me where are the howls of criticism from the leaders of our nation and our citizens when there are senseless murders of Americans?? Where ARE they??
    President Vicente Fox has called the wall "a disgrace," and a "very bad sign" that "does not befit a country that prides itself on being democratic
    And yet another question occurs to me. What on earth does being a democratic rupublic have to do with defending its borders??

    Human rights advocates say that, in addition to Mr. MartÃÂ*nez, at least four migrants have died in the last 15 months in run-ins with Border Patrol agents. One man was fatally shot Oct. 4 near Otay Mesa as he struggled over a gun with an agent who was trying to arrest him. Three others drowned running away from the Border Patrol agents.
    Has anyone kept count of just the LEO's in America that have been shot in just the last year??
    At the same time, the view is widely held in Mexico that the United States could not function without cheap Mexican labor
    What a scam...gosh..their illegal presence here is ALL that is SAVING our economy!!

    If they think ( the Mexes) that they are angry...they should feel of us!!

    RR
    The men who try to do something and fail are infinitely better than those who try to do nothing and succeed. " - Lloyd Jones

  5. #5
    Administrator ALIPAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Gheen, Minnesota, United States
    Posts
    67,794
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    55,883
    "saving our economy"

    1. Largest national debt in US History
    2. Largest trade deficit in US History
    3. Largest personal debt in US History
    4. Lowest personal savings in US History
    5. Rising poverty rate 4 years in a row
    6. 47,000,000 Americans without health insurance (largest number in years)
    7. Declining wages and salaries, all groups
    8. Rising income gap fro 20 to now 75
    9. Rising taxes at state and local levels
    10. Record prices on fuel and energy costs
    11. Etc.
    12. Etc.
    13 - 50. Etc.

    Thanks a bunch illegals! What would we do without you?

    1. Balance our budget

    2. Increase wages and salaries

    3. Resolve all other issues therefrom.

    Hmmmm...I think it's time for the ILLEGALS to go home so WE can save our economy.

    Oooh, and time for BUSH AND CHENEY to go on permanent vacation.

    He's not perfect but MAKE HASTERT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to complete the term of George Wackident Bush.

    You heard about Pakistan I suppose? The illegal airstrike that killed 17 or more people, none of whom were Zawahiri, the target of the airstrike and now thousands of Pakistanis are protesting in the streets against US?
    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
    Save America, Deport Congress! - Judy

    Support our FIGHT AGAINST illegal immigration & Amnesty by joining our E-mail Alerts at https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  7. #7
    Senior Member JuniusJnr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,557
    You know, I get sick and tired of these whiney little bleeding hearts who write these folksy pieces of crap trying to make it look like we are wrong for wanting our country kept free of any more illegal immigrants. The only thing these type of articles do for me is make me want to fight even harder to keep them out of here.

    Our papers are full of such articles here on the border as well. I can ride down the border highway and see the cardboard and tarpaper houses in colonias that the Mexican government torches from time to time. I feel sorry for those people but I can't figure out why, since they have good enough minds to devise ways to sneak across the border and defy our government, they don't have the brains to defy their own.
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    55,883
    Why don't they strike at the American plants there and form unions and get their wages up to a proper standard? We left them have all our good companies and they are doing nothing to improve their own lives.

    These people have a "cog" in their brains and they're bringin' here.

    Globalists Joy...a bunch of dummies who don't even know how to get a proper wage when they've got a job.

    Globalist Heaven.
    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
    Save America, Deport Congress! - Judy

    Support our FIGHT AGAINST illegal immigration & Amnesty by joining our E-mail Alerts at https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  9. #9
    pixeldoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    213

    US Agents should be allowed to shoot and kill illegals

    [mod edit]

    I am very upset to see in the news every few days an incident involving an illegal who either killed or maimed a US poilce officer or other innoocent legal citizen either in a car crash or drug related shoot out etc.

    We must keep out all such elements. Don't wee have enough of our own criminals ?

    We the people must take a hard stance. A soft stance will not go anywhere. Deterence must be invoked.

    I know this sounds hard line but I don't want our people and their kids being hurt by illegal criminals. Who knows who is coming over. We must stop it NOW !

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •