Thread: Sup Court rules against gov in immigration I.D. theft case

Originally Posted by attorneyatlaw

sorry people this has to do with a defendant's mental state concerning the theft. If he did not know it was a person's actual number, he should not be found guilty of that charge. There is plenty of other laws he can be charged and convicted of. If you are going to demand that laws be followed, they must be followed even when they are not favorable to the cause.
If it makes you feel better, the chances of this person ever getting citizenship are slim to none as a result of the convictions. Likely he will get a deportation order which may or may not be followed. If he follows and deports, mission accomplished. If he does not, he will be caught eventually and found guilty of not following a deportation order, a felony. That will eliminate him from ever becoming a citizen.

I'm sorry...BUT, unless he recieved THAT number from anywhere BESIDES THE SSA, yeah 99.98% chance it is someone elses number.
Especially if you PURCHASE IT FROM PEDRO IN A 7-11 PARKING LOT!!!

I wouldn't think Social Security numbers were just randomly generated without an individual to assign them to, therefore all numbers belong to individuals.

The Supreme Court interpeted the law literally, so our congressmen have to correct that statement to read differently. They need to increase the punishment and wording so that illegal aliens making up numbers can be prosecuted. They will always testify that they didn't know it belonged to anyone.

Frankly, if you make up a number and use it, then you should be found guilty. You know good and well that number belongs to a person or if it is not issued to the fed. gov.

Dixie

IMHO--The SCOTUS set a precedent today---that challenges a standard that has existed as long as I can remember. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse!!!"

So, if I do it , I get a felony charge and go to jail because I know it's a crime and that the ID may belong to someone???? I will just pretend I am an illegal!!!
God bless America!!!!

The court agreed he could be imprisoned for using an ID card he knew was false, but it also said he could not be charged with a felony of "aggravated identity theft" because he did not know he was using someone's Social Security number.

This makes absolutely no sense. So does this mean the illegal can only be convicted of aggravated identity theft if he picks a pocket? Does this mean that using the number of a deceased person is also not AIT?
Somebody in Congress better get busy writing laws that mean something.

Originally Posted by carolinamtnwoman

I wouldn't think Social Security numbers were just randomly generated without an individual to assign them to, therefore all numbers belong to individuals.

I am in California and this was/is a common practice. Someone steals blank social security cards and birth certificates THAT ARE BLANK. Those are sold to a person who asks the buyer for the information they want on the documents, i.e. name, birthdate, place of birth. Often the social security cards are sold with numbers already printed that DO NOT BELONG TO ANYONE.
If this is the case or the prosecution cannot prove that the buyer did not know the social security number was assigned, he cannot be convicted of the aggravated identity theft charge only because it requires knowledge.
Of course there are those that do know the numbers have been assigned, but the prosecution must still prove the element of knowledge by the defendant.

Originally Posted by Dixie

The Supreme Court interpeted the law literally, so our congressmen have to correct that statement to read differently. They need to increase the punishment and wording so that illegal aliens making up numbers can be prosecuted. They will always testify that they didn't know it belonged to anyone.

Frankly, if you make up a number and use it, then you should be found guilty. You know good and well that number belongs to a person or if it is not issued to the fed. gov.

Dixie

They will be guilty of something, just not "aggravated identity theft" without the prosecution proving the element of knowledge.

Thanks for the clarifications, attorneyatlaw, and welcome! I suppose mandatory use of E-verify by any organization which requires SSN's might help to alleviate this problem, but no such luck!

Lou Dobbs had this on his program tonight. However, he was amazed that the Supreme Court could hand down 2 decisions on the same day and both cases were ignorance of the law. The other case was about a guy that loaned his gun to someone and the gun misfired and was termed as an automatic assault rifle. The man stated he did not know his gun was broke. This man was sentenced to jail and the Supreme Court stated that not knowing the gun was broke is not an excuse and the man is going to be sentenced to jail. However, the same defense worked very well for the illegal immigrant. How can the supreme court have 2 cases where both claim ignorance and yet only one is sentenced to jail and we all know who was NOT sentenced to jail.

Thomas: Ariz. ID Theft Law Will Stand
Greg Gurule
Reporter, KPHO.com

POSTED: 5:23 pm MST May 4, 2009
UPDATED: 6:45 pm MST May 4, 2009


PHOENIX -- Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas said the U.S. Supreme Court ruling Monday on ID theft and illegal immigration will not affect the state's prosecution of these cases.

The Supreme Court ruled that the federal government over-stepped its bounds by using ID theft laws to prosecute undocumented workers who use fictitious identification to get jobs.

Arizona's laws are different from federal laws because the state's make it illegal to steal an ID whether it was real or fictitious, Thomas said.

Thomas said his office will continue to use the ID theft laws to help prosecute illegal immigration.

http://www.kpho.com/news/19367735/detail.html