Thread: WAAAH! Immigrant workers vital to business owners

Originally Posted by Bowman

Move your damn business to Mexico! There is plenty of cheap labor there.

Mind reader. I wish all of those who covet their illegal alien employees would move their businesses to the 3rd RAIL countries. That way loyal Americans can weed out the illegals and their supporters, rebuild this country and enforce the laws already in place.

I don't believe he tried to find Americans to work - but it is possible none apply.

For one thing, they don't pay the same wages - although illegals do make pretty good money sometimes. The employer doesn't have to withhold or match taxes, pay workman's comp, adhere to workplace safety, all of those pesky things that are required to employ citizens.

There is another thing, many times if a company is known to hire illegals or predominatly illegals, Americans don't even apply and don't want to work here. Some businesses have gotten the reputation of 'only hiring illegals' and Americans just don't apply. Working in some jobs where most of the people do not speak English could be very dangerous.

There was a story about a lady who applied at some business and was told there were no openings. She knew someone who worked in the office and knew they had hired illegals after they told her. She said her friend told her, off the record, that they were told to tell any American that there were no openings and if one insisted on filling out an application it was tossed.

I see this as no different than robbing a bank, embezzlement, or any other crime for money. You bet, when the law comes looking, it puts a real hurt on your income.

Here's the way I see it. It all boils down to money and power:

1. Free Trade -> manufacturing moves overseas to obtain cheap labor, buy cheaper raw materials, utilize "no labor laws" and no consumer protection oversight. U.S. government gives subsidies and tax breaks to further these global relations.

2. Displaced American workers are forced to take lower-paying jobs (but they're still Americans and expect to attain the American Dream, which they need to get out of their heads).

3. Businesses (including hospitals) in the US cry foul -> H1B visas and other alphabet visas are given. Workers on these visas work for less than their American co-workers.

4. Labor unions are bought off. Union leaders agree to consolidation of jobs previously considered to be different "crafts". Union leaders agree to centralizing operations to a select few cities (because technology has progressed to the extent that it's possible) thereby assuring job cuts. Union leaders agree to allow new workers to "come in" at a lower starting salary as concession to not "cut off or lay off" older union members.

5. Businesses begin to outsouce engineering, R&D, and other professional needs to overseas firms.

6. Service industries -> move "customer support" overseas (because technology proves it's doable).

7. Service industries that need "bodies" (hotels, McDonald's etc) -> hire illegal aliens.

8. Americans still won't work for slave wages but have to survive -> each adult works, some get a 2nd job.

9. Americans are too busy trying to make a living to have the "time" to protest, write congress, or any other pro-active activity to better their plight.

10. Americans know there's something wrong, but can't put their finger on it. Assume the government will work it all out.

11. Labor unions are effectively emasculated. Labor unions long for the bygone days when they had power to force management to raise wages and benefits -> Push for legalizing illegal immigrants to swell the ranks.

I was against free trade and global economy when it was 1st espoused and no one would listen to me. They bought the "it will be good for the economy" line. I kept saying that businesses will go overseas for cheap labor but no one could see that it was possible, for some reason. Technology was making it possible and no one could see it. It was so frustrating, but being right doesn't make me feel better ... it makes me feel worse.

The companies went for cheap labor - in part.

They also went because they don't have as many - or any - environmental rules to adhere to.

No workplace safety rules.

Taxes - I don't know the tax situation, but I'll bet it's sweeter.

Then, think about the quality of merchandise we are getting in America. We are getting cheap, shoddy, dangerous merchandise.

I haven't seen quality merchandise in America - anywhere. We were very poor growing up, but there is no way my Mother would have spent a dime on this poor quality stuff. People just didn't accept it. The movement has been so massive, we don't have a choice.

When I looked for a dress for my daughter's wedding, I started looking in stores that were very modestly priced - not as low as Wal Mart, though.
The quality was so bad, I moved on up the chain. The thing that struck me, no matter if the store was prettier, with well dressed sales clerks, nice music playing, higher price tags - I saw the same clothing - all poor quality but with different name tags them.

We lost jobs, then we are loosing our incomes by having to continuously replace the trash we are forced to buy.

Not that we probably couldn't all do better in the frugatity department.

Why would an American want to spend 8 hours a day working in a place
where everyone spoke spanish?

Why would an American want to spend 8 hours a day working in a place
where everyone spoke spanish?

Well absolutely. It isn't safe to work where people can't communicate - some more than others.

Imagine working in some kind of manufacturing place with safety is very very important.

Imagine working in the hospital with people who can't speak English - it is just assinine.

He's a white, conservative Republican who owns a light manufacturing company and employs about 125 people. In the 1990s, he began getting job applicants with Social Security numbers that could not be matched.

No doubt has been voting Republican ( which is OK ). The party that out sources business & technology to China. The party that raises the trade deficit with every "free trade" agreement, the party that let Communsist China into the WTO.

I worked for a small stell procesing center in Columbus, OH. Half the employees were immigrants. When they initially started their English would be almost zero. They were small, hard working and LEGAL.

They all came from Macedonia. The land of Alexander the Great.

It help that the production scheduler and supervisor were also Macedonian immigrants. They had been with the company 20 years.

We had to work at this. We also insisted everyone was legal. They wanted to be legal. They wanted a job in America. Their opportunities here were 1,000 times better.

The guys rarely married an American girl. They always went home to pick a bride and bring her to the US. Many 1st generation men also went to their homeland for a bride. ( just facts )

When you said they came from Macedonia, it makes me wonder why a company would have a number of immigrants from the same country?

I probably am not asking the right question, but I can't imagine open hiring ending up with a large number of immigrants from one particular country. Is there a reason this happens?

I realize friends tell friends, relatives bring relatives, but it's strange to me.

Originally Posted by magyart

He's a white, conservative Republican who owns a light manufacturing company and employs about 125 people. In the 1990s, he began getting job applicants with Social Security numbers that could not be matched.

No doubt has been voting Republican ( which is OK ). The party that out sources business & technology to China. The party that raises the trade deficit with every "free trade" agreement, the party that let Communsist China into the WTO.

I worked for a small stell procesing center in Columbus, OH. Half the employees were immigrants. When they initially started their English would be almost zero. They were small, hard working and LEGAL.

They all came from Macedonia. The land of Alexander the Great.

It help that the production scheduler and supervisor were also Macedonian immigrants. They had been with the company 20 years.

We had to work at this. We also insisted everyone was legal. They wanted to be legal. They wanted a job in America. Their opportunities here were 1,000 times better.

The guys rarely married an American girl. They always went home to pick a bride and bring her to the US. Many 1st generation men also went to their homeland for a bride. ( just facts )

There are some higly intelligent people who just cannot get a toehold in their home country to advance in their career or form a business. Their education may be superior to that of most Americans, too. The US needs businesses that are on the cutting edge of technology and can heip us maintain/regain leadership in exports. This is a lot different from letting in people who need extensive "rehab."

One solution for businesspeople who are stymied in not getting enough illegal aliens: Go to work for a company as an employee. Or form a parrtnership. Or reorganize your production so the jobs require more skill and you can pay more.

Thanks, Zeezil, I thrive on a bit of laudatio directus.
When this is over the whole gang is invited on a cruise! Small, refundable deposit required.....