Thread: Brown rejects Lords call for cap on immigration

Brown rejects Lords call for cap on immigration

GORDON Brown has rebuffed calls by senior parliamentarians to cap the number of migrants to Britain, insisting that foreigners are vital to the economy.

The Prime Minister was speaking after a Lords economic affairs committee, which included two former chancellors, disputed government claims that migrants boosted national income by £6 billion.

At his Downing Street press conference, Mr Brown insisted that British business had benefited "very substantially" from immigration in the last decade.

But the Prime Minister also accepted it was important to get the balance right, given "pressures on the economy".

He said gross domestic product per head had risen dramatically since 1997, from £13,900 then to £22,840 in the last year.

A cap on potential immigrants could only be applied to those outside the EU, he said.

"And of course many of these people are the highly skilled workers who are important to the economy," he went on. "But we want to get the balance right between that and being sensible about the pressures on our economy."

He said the government had introduced a points system so that there would be no unskilled immigrants from outside the European Union.

It had also set up a citizenship fund requiring immigrants to pay a higher charge for services they use while in the UK. And the government had addressed strains on services in certain areas with additional financial support.

The economic affairs committee's report concludes that record levels of immigration have brought little or no economic benefit.

Lord Wakeham, the inquiry chairman, said: "Looking to the future, if you have got that increase in numbers and you haven't got any economic benefit from it, you have got to ask yourself, is this a wise thing to do? That is why we want the government to look at it."

Liam Byrne, the immigration minister, pledged to put national interests "centre stage".

The report, he said, had argued that ministers should be taking into account the wider impact of immigration when setting immigration policy. He insisted: "I think that is absolutely right."

David Cameron, the Conservative leader, said: "We want people to work here and come to Britain. The problem with the government is that they absolutely refuse to set any sort of limit on immigration."

Business leaders last night appeared at odds over the government's policy. Neil Carberry, the CBI's head of employment, said while businesses had called for a flexible immigration system, they had never called for mass, uncontrolled migration.

"Large-scale movement of labour is no long-term answer to our skills needs.

"The government must do more to ensure that the young people emerging from our education system have the right skills for the workplace."

But Chris Hannant, of the British Chambers of Commerce, said UK businesses depended on immigration. "Many businesses are reliant on migrant workers because increasingly large numbers of British people do not have either the right skills or aptitude for work," he said.

"Without the steady flow of migrant labour into the UK most businesses would be struggling to expand or fill vacancies."

Meanwhile, Mr Brown suggested that the current shortage of curry chefs in Britain could be filled by local people retraining. Restaurant owners have warned a new points-based system would halt the arrival of Bangladeshi cooks and force closures.

Mr Brown said: "We will make it possible for people who work in this country to train to be either chefs or restaurant workers in the industry."

LABOUR REBELS EMBARRASS SMITH OVER TERROR DETENTION PLAN

THE Home Secretary faced embarrassment in the Commons last night, as she attempted to secure backing for a plan to increase the amount of time terrorist suspects can be held without charge from 28 to 42 days.

Jacqui Smith was quizzed by MPs over comments by Sir Ken Macdonald, the director of public prosecutions, that 28 days was sufficient and had resulted in a 92 per cent conviction rate.

Chris Mullin, a rebel Labour MP, insisted the remarks by Sir Ken presented an "insurmountable obstacle" to the government's attempts to force through the changes in the Counter-Terrorism Bill.

David Winnick, a back-bench Labour MP, said: "There is no evidence whatsoever to support such an extension."

A previous attempt to increase the period of pre-charge detention from 14 days to 90 days resulted in Tony Blair's first parliamentary defeat as prime minister and the compromise of the 28-day limit.

Ms Smith admitted that she was seeking to win support on "this thorny issue", with the key votes expected next month.

And she went on: "The response of the law cannot remain frozen when the scale and nature of the threat grows."

She said that the terrorist threat was now "more ruthless, very often aiming to cause mass civilian casualties without warning, using suicide attacks and with even chemical, biological and radiological weapons".

There were more than 200 groups and 2,000 individuals being monitored in the UK – an "unprecedented scale", she said.

The bill aims to introduce a "reserve power", which would have to be ratified in each case by parliament, for police to be able to interview suspects for up to 42 days to cope with increasingly complex terror plots.

The full article contains 877 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.Last Updated: 01 April 2008 9:23 PM

http://news.scotsman.com/uk/Brown-rejec ... 3936597.jp

Comments from the link provided

1 Hmm ...,02/04/2008 00:09:48
... what is Labour's obsession with immigration? It couldn't be, could it, that they hope that "grateful" immigrants will be the new nucleus of Labour Party supporters, to replace the support that Labour has lost from locals?Report Unsuitable2 Hmm ...,02/04/2008 00:11:46
It couldn't be, could it, that Labour hopes to replace all those fleeing the country for more attractive lifestyles with others who would be more accustomed to Labour's Stalinist approach to governing "on behalf of" the People?Report Unsuitable3 Hmm ...,02/04/2008 00:12:43
Or is it simply that it is easier to accept current levels of immigration rather than find an effective way of regulating it?Report Unsuitable4 truthsleuth,02/04/2008 00:17:20
Our Gordon still maintains they are wrong and he is right.
Could this be Our Prime Ministers fear that the Indian Rich who now own half of the UK and the Arabian rich who own the other half now rule and Gordon is running scared.
Could it be that Gordon fears the fact that many constituencies (in England) have such a large contingent of immigrants that to agree with the Great Lord Wakeham would lose those constituencies to labour.
Fibnally of course it has been about 3years since BBC Radio 4 ran a program identifying how much money was sent out of the UK by immigrants which showed many many £billions in fact many third world countries totally depended upon this 'money being sent home.
Has this been incuded on the debit side of the immigrant issue along with many of the 'imports' sucked into the UK by them.
I doubt it. Report Unsuitable5 connaughtboy,stonehaven 02/04/2008 02:12:49
Oh not Brown picking more fights. This time with the House of Lords.

Gordy, how come you are always right and everyone else is wrong?

What a waste of space he is!Report Unsuitable6 KampungHighlander,Jakarta 02/04/2008 02:59:20
Given the fact that their are hundreds of thousands of people in the UK illegally what is the point of the debate.

This new point system will be just be like puting screen doors on a submarine. It gives a false sense of security while you get swamped.

It will only stop those who have the willingness to obey the law, while the criminal element will still get in. Report Unsuitable7 American,02/04/2008 03:21:45
#6-kamp-Better to start a debate while there are only hundreds of thousands of illegals instead of 12 million like we have. Report Unsuitable8 The Daleks,Longmen 02/04/2008 03:47:25
Brown truly is heaping the firewood onto the nation's funeral pyre.

Mass immigration is clearly causing the country to fall apart, in another generation it will no longer even belong to us.

Brown's attitude is lunacy, and will cost each and every one of us dear in the coming years.Report Unsuitable9 Rulesbutnotrulers,Federation, not separation 02/04/2008 06:47:15
Immigrants are a very mixed blessing. They are certainly depressing wages and allowing our own unemployed to remain unskilled and increasingly unemployable.

Report Unsuitable10 Dave from Barra ©,Western Isles 02/04/2008 07:30:06
Cheap labour, lower expectations than the locals, living more heads per dwelling, valuable source of grateful labour voters and so on.

Not much else to say other than, if you don't like it, you know what to do.

Report Unsuitable11 Proximaking,Dundee 02/04/2008 07:31:19
Much though I hate to agree with anyone, Gordon really is an ass. £6Billion extra to the economy every year? And not a shred of proof to show this. If Gordy wants to put our minds at rest why doesn't he bring in electronic money tomorrow? A friend of my fathers who ran several small but highly successful shops almost sh*t a brick when the inland revenue announced in the late 1990's that this was inevitable within five years and that any business who suddenly had increased turnover would be assumed to have been keeping two sets of books. Of course nothing came of it but surely now is the time. How many shopkeepers and fly by night joiners, plumbers, plasterers etc do you know who would have to start paying their way. Now if immigration forces the inland revenue to do what it promised to do over ten years ago now it will have done us all a favour as the black economy is worth far more than £6Billion a year. And if Gordy could please ensure that buses, local leisure centres, parks, and all the other public nice to haves are kept only for those who work I'd be much obliged. What sort of demented world is it when those who pay for these things can't get in to use them for all the skivers who don't pay for them and who get them free? Another idea, fat kids at school, hand out free bus passes ........ then they can get even fatter. Or ban kids from using buses because a) they are fat and b) because they wreck the buses. Which is correct Gordy? I think we should be told. llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllRe port Unsuitable12 ,02/04/2008 09:03:35
Comment Removed By AdministratorReason: 13 Toom,02/04/2008 09:24:18
Maybe our wee pretendey unelected prime minister should seek a mandate to govern before making any more decisions or policies.
Interesting to here him comment on the elections for leader of Zimbabwe, apparently without realising the irony.Report Unsuitable14 Denis,02/04/2008 09:28:12
"He said gross domestic product per head had risen dramatically since 1997, from £13,900 then to £22,840 in the last year."

1. That works out at 5.1% pa compound, about twice the average real growth rate of the economy over that period. In other words, these figures have not been corrected for inflation. He knows that.

2. Taking a UK population of 59 million in 1997, GDP would have been £820 billion. Taking a UK population of 61 million in 2007, GDP would have been £1393 billion, of which Brown wants to attribute £6 billion to immigration. Even supposing that is true, £6 billion is only about 0.4% of present GDP, while the increase in population due to immigration over the last decade is many times that. He knows that too.

3. He has no scruples about spraying around false and misleading statistics on the assumption that they'll sound impressive, and by the time anybody tries to call them into question media interest will have shifted on to something else.

4. Conclusion - don't believe a word he says, about anything.Report Unsuitable15 Tweedmouth,Coldstream 02/04/2008 09:51:51
#1"what is Labour's obsession with immigration?"

It is very simple. NuLabour has completely surrendered Britain's sovereignty to the unelected European Union. We no longer have ANY meaningful borders; over 300 million people from 27 countries all have the RIGHT to enter our country at will, to compete for work here and after 12 months to receive benefits, housing, healthcare and education.
Schools, council housing and the health system are in utter chaos in the big cities - with inner London schools having as many as 100 different languages spoken in reception classes. Over 10,000 Somali muslims have arrived in the UK in less than a year - having moved en-masse from Denmark - whose benefits are not as good as ours.

This is literally the INVASION of Britain - over 1 million aliens arrived in the last year and over 10 million are predicted to arrive in the next ten years.

Europe has tried to absorb Britain many times in numerous wars - and none since the Norman conquest has succeeded. Since open war failed, they are now using subversion and chaos to absorb us and destroy our sovereignty. Blair, Brown, Mandelson, Kinnock, Cameron, Kennedy, Clegg, the Alexanders, - ALL of them are traitors. Not one single national politician has stood against the flooding of the UK with foreign nationals - and the intent is quite clear. When 10 or 20 million immigrants have been planted in every city in the UK there will be no British nation left; no English, No Scottish, No Welsh no Irish nations either. It will be one vast chaos of indegenous foil, swamped by Pakistanis, Indians, Jamaicans, Poles, Afghans, Somalis, Ukrainians, Armenians, Albanians - you finish the list. In reward for their treachery and selling their country to Europe - the traitors such as Blair, Brown, Mandelson, Kinnock - and probably Salmond will all be rewarded with peerages in a neutered House of Lords - or elevation to some Euro-Quango -- with unlimited cash allowances, two houses a year and unlimitReport Unsuitable16 Stu_R_20,Edinburgh 02/04/2008 11:07:50
An absolute disgrace! Yesterday I said there would be fat chance politicians would pay any attention to this but it took Gordon but one day to totally reject its findings. This is the New Labour way: "Well I'm afraid I don't except these findings", often quoted when it doesn't fit into their agenda. I hope you all agree that Labour need to be kept out of power for a long time, their arrogance is astonishing!Report Unsuitable17 Davy,Looking at a cctv camera 02/04/2008 11:24:29
It is all part of a bigger agenda
http://www.theinsider.org/reports/new-world-order/
Report Unsuitable18 Anthony,Glasgow 02/04/2008 12:16:38
Having lost control of our borders, Brown et al need to desperately try to spin it as in some way a good thing. The £6billion figure is absurd, given that the government freely admit they don't know the numbers of immigrants in the UK. Just one lie after another on this issue.

As someone noted above, all we are seeing is one-sided accounting - every conceivable benefit immigration delivers is squeezed out to the maximum (and even double and treble counted!), whilst the huge costs, such as tens of thousands of giro cheques going to Pakistan etc, and massive leakages to our economy in for example large percentage of earnings being sent out of the UK, are never factored in at all.

Immigration is becoming the lynch pin issue of our times. It is the issue which is showing Brown as a man prone to telling lies, together with his colleagues and certain people within the media. They tell us one thing. But the problem is, many of us witness on a daily basis the truth, which completely contradicts this. Report Unsuitable19 Reckless,Corrupt EU 02/04/2008 12:51:41
Trust New Labour, they've earned it!Report Unsuitable20 Stu_R_20,02/04/2008 13:03:35
#16
*acceptReport Unsuitable21 Rulesbutnotrulers,Federation, not separation 02/04/2008 13:13:52
Three million new homes required to house immigrants (etc). All this unwanted 'development' is ruining our land. We should be busy reducing our population, not increasing it.Report Unsuitable22 Allan(handofgod137),02/04/2008 14:00:14
Nick Griffin says "Thanks Gordy, keep up the good work"Report Unsuitable23 Retah Esenihc,Fife 02/04/2008 16:04:25
If Brown had the choice of saving a Lord or a terrorist about to do lethal harm his hatred for the Lords would leave us with one more (as if there were not enough already here) terrorist.Report Unsuitable24 Griffe,02/04/2008 17:50:08
Now democracy has finally gone. Will he change his name to Mugabe-Brown? Will he follow his of mentor of refusing to dtand down even when defeated in a general election? Time will tell.Report Unsuitable25 FLUB,a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 02/04/2008 20:27:41
Have you noticed that the two stories about the PM in this 'Politics' section are both headlined 'Brown rejects...' Report Unsuitable26 Retah Esenihc,Fife 02/04/2008 20:42:41
I know that Brown is looking to make a nema for himself, the few I am thinking of will not be permitted on these pagesReport Unsuitable27 david hill,huddersfield 02/04/2008 21:19:59
I just wonder at times whether our wonderful government can actually add up at all and whether they should take a lesson out of their own book to achieve future greatness - education! education ! education ! Indeed, basic arithmetic is not hard to grasp so it should be simple for our politicians to undertake, but unfortunately when it comes to immigration even cabinet ministers cannot add up the cost of a policy of unlimited access and whether the country has net benefits or not. In this respect also it appears that cabinet ministers and even prime ministers do not understand what common sense dictates, but where in comparison to this the vast number of the British people have been concerned about the ever-increasing immigration problem for nearly 10-years now. In this respect our politicians never did and still do not comprehend the problems caused by the increased demand on our health services, social services, housing, social benefits, loss of jobs by British workers due to immigration and the influx in absolute numbers of millions of new people who have flooded onto our shores in recent years. If they did they would though common sense again understand that our country can only be a net loss maker. Indeed, common sense has told the British people over the last few years that immigration is predominantly a negative factor within our economy and where the costs of the immigration burden far outweigh the benefits, most probably by a factor of three at least if the politicians did their sums correctly. But unfortunately again what we have got in this country presently is a government that simple cannot add up and where normal common sense is something that these politicians certainly do not possess.
Therefore the sooner that our political masters get a grasp of both, the sooner the people of this dear nation will get a government that does something right for a change. Or am I asking the impossible I would ask with this present administration ?

Dr David Hill
WoReport Unsuitable28 david hill,02/04/2008 21:20:18
I just wonder at times whether our wonderful government can actually add up at all and whether they should take a lesson out of their own book to achieve future greatness - education! education ! education ! Indeed, basic arithmetic is not hard to grasp so it should be simple for our politicians to undertake, but unfortunately when it comes to immigration even cabinet ministers cannot add up the cost of a policy of unlimited access and whether the country has net benefits or not. In this respect also it appears that cabinet ministers and even prime ministers do not understand what common sense dictates, but where in comparison to this the vast number of the British people have been concerned about the ever-increasing immigration problem for nearly 10-years now. In this respect our politicians never did and still do not comprehend the problems caused by the increased demand on our health services, social services, housing, social benefits, loss of jobs by British workers due to immigration and the influx in absolute numbers of millions of new people who have flooded onto our shores in recent years. If they did they would though common sense again understand that our country can only be a net loss maker. Indeed, common sense has told the British people over the last few years that immigration is predominantly a negative factor within our economy and where the costs of the immigration burden far outweigh the benefits, most probably by a factor of three at least if the politicians did their sums correctly. But unfortunately again what we have got in this country presently is a government that simple cannot add up and where normal common sense is something that these politicians certainly do not possess.
Therefore the sooner that our political masters get a grasp of both, the sooner the people of this dear nation will get a government that does something right for a change.

Dr David Hill
World Innovation Foundation Charity
Bern, Switzerland

http://news.scotsman.com/uk/Brown-rejec ... 3936597.jp

We clearly are not alone. The UK experience is so similar to ours and yes the Democrats, like Labour are illegal aliens pushers, for votes!

He said the government had introduced a points system so that there would be no unskilled immigrants from outside the European Union.

It had also set up a citizenship fund requiring immigrants to pay a higher charge for services they use while in the UK. And the government had addressed strains on services in certain areas with additional financial support.

The economic affairs committee's report concludes that record levels of immigration have brought little or no economic benefit.

Lord Wakeham, the inquiry chairman, said: "Looking to the future, if you have got that increase in numbers and you haven't got any economic benefit from it, you have got to ask yourself, is this a wise thing to do? That is why we want the government to look at it."

Why doesn't OUR government get this??? We have MILLIONS of unskilled workers who bring NOTHING to our economy, WHY are we letting stay?!?!?!