Thread: Brown slaps down Archbishop's call for Islamic Sharia law

Brown slaps down Archbishop's call for Islamic Sharia law to operate in Britain

Last updated at 08:37am on 08.02.08

The Archbishop of Canterbury caused consternation yesterday by calling for Islamic law to be recognised in Britain.

He declared that Sharia and Parliamentary law should be given equal legal status so the people could choose which governs their lives.

This raised the prospect of Islamic courts in Britain with full legal powers to approve polygamous marriages, grant easy divorce for men and prevent finance firms from charging interest.

His comments in a BBC interview and a lecture to lawyers were condemned at a time when government ministers are striving to encourage integration and stop the nation from "sleepwalking to segregation".

The Prime Minister rapidly distanced himself from Dr Williams's view. Gordon Brown's spokesman said: "Our general position is that sharia law cannot be used as a justification for committing breaches of English law, nor should the principles of sharia law be included in a civil court for resolving contractual disputes.

"The Prime Minister believes British law should apply in this country, based on British values."

Brutal: Elements of Sharia law are known for being barbaric

Dr Williams's words opened a chasm over Islam between senior leaders of the Church of England, who are already trying to deal with an Anglican war over gay rights which broke out after he was appointed archbishop.

The Bishop of Rochester, Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, is facing death threats following his warning last month about Muslim "no-go areas" in Britain.

And the Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu, who has been fiercely critical of Muslim extremists, said last year that "the imposition of sharia law, Britain as a Muslim society - that will never happen".

In his lecture, 57-year-old Dr Williams said that "we have to think a little harder about the role and rule of law in a plural society of overlapping identities".

He added that it would be possible to develop "a scheme in which individuals retain the liberty to choose the jurisdiction under which they will seek to resolve certain carefully specified matters, so that power-holders are forced to compete for the loyalty of their shared constituents.

"This may include aspects of marital law, the regulation of financial transactions, and authorised structures of mediation and conflict resolution."

The archbishop attempted to distance himself from the extreme legal systems run in Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia and Iran, where adultery can be punished by death and women who behave independently risk harsh punishments.

"Nobody in their right mind, I think, would want to see in this country a kind of inhumanity that sometimes appears to be associated with the practice of the law in some Islamic states - the extreme punishments, the attitudes to women as well," he said.

Sharia law in Britain would provide Muslims with an alternative to our divorce courts

Dr Williams pointed out that Jewish Beth Din courts already operate in Britain. But these, like sharia arrangements currently existing in Muslim areas, are voluntary understandings conducted with the agreement of participants.

Alternative sharia courts as proposed by the archbishop would dish out enforceable law.

Muslim groups responded cautiously to Dr Williams's proposals. A spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain said: "We will need to look carefully at the archbishop's lecture."

The Ramadhan Foundation youth organisation said the scheme would help build respect and tolerance.

Its director Mohammed Shafiq said: "Sharia law for civil matters is something which has been introduced in some western countries with much success; I believe that Muslims would take huge comfort from the Government allowing civil matters being resolved according to their faith."

But he added: "We are however disappointed that the Archbishop of Canterbury was silent when Bishop Nazir-Ali was promoting intolerance and lying about no-go areas for Christians in the UK by Muslim extremists.

"Unless he speaks out against this intolerance, Muslims will take his silence as authorisation and support for such comments."

Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, said Dr Williams's comments gave "succour to extremists".

"He needs to understand that his words carry enormous weight," he said in a Channel 4 interview.

"What he seems to be talking about is a situation in which people are treated differently under the law according to their religion. People cannot be treated differently. Everyone should be equal in the eyes of the law.

"I don't doubt the archbishop's desire to accommodate diversity, but we cannot do so at the expense of our common values."

He described Dr Williams as "muddled" and "dangerous".

Mr Phillips was the first prominent Labour figure to condemn multiculturalism, the Left-wing doctrine which promotes different cultures.

He declared that under its influence Britain was sleepwalking to segregation.

Yesterday he said the "implication that British courts should treat people differently based on their faith is divisive and dangerous.

"It risks removing the protection afforded by law, for example, to children in custody cases or women in divorce proceedings.

"The first people who would suffer would be ethnic-minority citizens. Follow the logic of this extreme multiculturalism through and where do we end up?

With a group of white Christians in Barking and Dagenham deciding they had a conscientious objection to nonwhite Muslims in their neighbourhoods - and seeking the support of the courts?"

Mike Judge, of the Christian Institute, said: "I am appalled that the head of the Church of England is advocating that parts of sharia law should be introduced into British law.

"The idea that you can have the moderate bits without the nasty bits coming along at a later time is naive."

Tory backbencher David Davies, an Anglican, said: "I am astounded. Dr Williams is a nice enough man, very intellectual, but he has clearly lost the plot.

"He's one of the most influential Christian prelates in the world and he's supposed to be standing up for Christianity.

"What he's doing is abandoning his own religion. If people come to this country they should be prepared to compromise their own traditions to fit in with the host country.

Tory cohesion spokesman Baroness Warsi, a Muslim herself, said: "The archbishop's comments are unhelpful and may add to the confusion that already exists in our communities.

"Freedom under the law allows respect for some religious practices.

"But let's be absolutely clear. All British citizens must be subject to British laws developed through Parliament and the courts."

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Here's a sample of the latest views published.

There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia. Sharia is more of a system of how law ought to serve humanity, a consensus of the unified spirit. Then we should have courts that allow christians to be tried under Christian ideas of right and wrong? Of course not as we think thats just as stupid, and we have developed well beyond the dark ages! Honestly religious folk need to keep out of state business!

- Philip S., London

Dr Williams said Orthodox Jewish courts already operated in the UK, and anti-abortion views of Catholics and other Christians were "accommodated within the law". I don't know about jewish courts (could someone explain that) but where are anti-abortion views of christians accommodated within British Law?
How could a country/state possibly run properly if everyone decided that they were only going to live and work under a law applicable only to their religion and or ethnic background?
Even though I am a christian would I be able to use some of sharia law if I wanted to and vice versa?

- Peter Sparkling, London, UK

Dr. Williams would make a great running mate with Sen. Obama or Hillary in our upcoming presidential election.

- John Carey, philadelphia,usa

Why not having multiple laws for each religion, cult or interest group so as not to offend anyone?

- John, London, UK

That we are all equal is is one of the central tenets of Christianity. If Rowan Williams believes that we are not all equal under the law and can pick and choose those that apply to us, then he is not fit to head the Church.

- Dave, Uxbridge, UK

The laws of England & Wales are secular for a reason - to ensure equality for all regardless of race or religion. The aim surely is to build a cohesive society not to further divide the muslim community from the rest of the United Kingdom.

Extremists of all races and religions should be reminded that if they want to live in this country, and I believe that everyone should have the choice of where they want to live, they have to abide by the laws of this country. They can't have it both ways of enjoying the spoils and benefits of this country but insisting on forcing others to abide by draconian, discriminating laws that would never be allowed by the law makers of England & Wales (or European law).

If this is allowed how long before it becomes acceptable to stone/kill a person?

- Andy, London

Rowan Williams confirms my opinion that he is an idiot - reputedly with a 'first class brain' - with almost every public utterance. He must have done more to turn people away from and inflicted more damage on the Church of England than any living soul. His supine, mealy -mouthed utterings about his own Church, what it stands for and its role in society is probably having a catastrophic impact on the morale of the clergy and certainly on his dwindling congregations.
This clown should be championing British society not helping to dismantle it in the face of an assault by an alien culture. This is like the Aztec high priest welcoming the Spanish invasion and the subsequent anihilation of his own society and people.

Many of us don't like many aspects of British law but as part of a society we adhere to them for the sake of the common good. The freedoms we have in this country have been very hard won over a thousand years.

Williams should resign or better be sacked, and replaced by John Sentamu, who although a showman, has got enough guts to resurrect and lead the CoE.

- John, London, UK

It is ridiculous to introduce another set of rules because of religion. You would not be able to go to Iran and do this, so why here? It's yet another example of 'lay down and be trampled on'. Why doesn't anyone start listening to the majority of the people in this country who are totally fed up with all this pandering to a few.

- Kim, Lancing, West Sussex

Words can't summise what I think about this suggestion from this treacherous old man. Not surprised though, considering Christianity's historical degradation of women that the Archbish thinks Sharia law isn't that bad.

- Isabel, Woking, England

If the muslims (or any other foreign denominations) cannot or will not abide by the English law then they should not be living here in the first place. This is our country and we all have to live by the law or pay the penalties. Taking more than one wife is illegal for a start - in England it is known as an offence called "BIGAMY". If you want more than one wife, then go and live in the country where it is legal.

This stupidity that is the UK Government have got to draw the line somewhere - where is it all going to end?? One thing we should all remember is that the last time we mixed politics and religion, people were burned at the stake!!

- Kate, Archway

We already have the equivalent in Jewish civil matters. I'm wondering why so many of us have missed that salient point!

Instinctively I'm for 'one law for all' but the precident has been set I believe.

- Natalia Grant, London, UK

Can you imagine the top mullah in Karachi or Saudi Arabia suggesting that laws of christianity should be appled there ?

- Roy G, Solihull, England

This bearded twit should leave Europe and try and set up a church in Saudi Arabia...

Secular rule for ever.

- Jamie, london

...adoption of Islamic Sharia law in the UK is "unavoidable"


There will be a civil war first!

- Sarah, london

If you look into it its only to do with marriage, divorce and inheritance issues, just like jewish law for jewish issues.

- Zak, London

No it is not inevitable.

If people want to live under Sharia law then there are many delightful countries in the middle east just waiting to welcome them with open arms. If they want to live in Britain then they have to accept that we all live under British law and that they are going to have to as well.

- Casper Slides, Bath, UK

Muslims could also choose to have marital disputes or financial matters dealt with in a Sharia court by moving to a country that already has Sharia law. Perhaps they'd be good enough to take Dr Williams with them and see how far he got before being stoned as an infidel.

- Squiz, Islington

...is he completely mad?

It is scandalous to such nonsense from him and also stabbing his own archbishop of Rochester in the back.

He should call it a day, leave the UK for good and settle in Saudi Arabia.

- Weddigen, London

As a long-standing member of the Church of England I am very disappointed at the Archbishop's remarks. Does he realize that under Sharia law that women can be divorced without their consent by just reciting three words? And that in sharia law women automatically lose the custody of their children once they reach a certain age?
What need to be "better understood" about sharia law? That a woman's testimony is considered half as good as any man's? That a raped virgin can be stoned to death for "immorality"? I don't how someone supposedly as intelligent a Rowan Williams could possibly think that sharia law is some kind of pick-and-mix justice system. The stoning of adulterers, rape victims, children is just as integral to sharia as the cherry-picked positive examples given by Islamic apologists. Or does the Archbishop really think that muslims in the UK are not deserving of the same human rights as the rest of us? What does his wife think, I wonder.

- Sarah N., London

When I heard what Dr Williams had proposed my heart sank. If you live in the UK the law of the land decides all disputes. If he has his way then the UK has plumbed to a new depth.

- Ayliff A Mcnab, Orihuela Costa, Spain

If they are British citizens they must relate to British Law! What next; people who do not relate to British Law need not pay taxes?; etc., etc.?No wonder the CoE is facing empty pews... this pompous man is simply silly.

- Beatriz, London

A chill ran down my spine.

- J. Warwick, Norwich Norfolk

There is one law in this country that should be applied to all: English Law. If Muslims are to be allowed Sharia Law and have that enshrined in English Law then all other minority groups will want to have theirs.

Wake up Rowan Williams, Social cohesion will only happen when people realise that there is one law that must be applied to all.

- Marc, Harrow, Uk

That the introducing of Sharia Law into Great Britain as parallel law is even being discussed is cause for alarm. Thankfully, judging from the comments, the average citizens of that country haven't lost their collective minds as the Archbishop has.