Thread: Declaring Our Freedoms

Declaring our freedoms

By Dennis McCafferty

Direct descendants of our Founding Fathers ask the nation's greatest historian, David McCullough, about the state of American ideals.


"I think they would feel astonished and very grateful that the government they put in place still stands."
--David McCullough
Four people representing four generations of Americans walk into an elegant wood-framed house in Quincy, Mass. The home, built more than 300 years ago, is where Founding Father and former President John Adams lived with his wife, Abigail. Then a fifth visitor enters this historic place: He's the dapper, silver-haired David McCullough, America's pre-eminent historian and the two-time Pulitzer Prize-winning author who wrote "1776," which chronicles the bloody year of our independence (and is new in paperback).

USA WEEKEND Magazine has gathered the group for a special conversation about this holiday, the country's 230th Independence Day. McCullough's select audience of four has a vested interest in the topic: All are direct descendants of America's Founding Fathers. They are Steve Moyer, 59, of Rochester, N.Y., who is the great-great-great-great-great-grandson of Thomas Jefferson; Karen Duplessis, 40, from Rye, N.H., the great-great-great-great-granddaughter of Patrick Henry; her son, Patrick Henry Duplessis, 11, a fifth-grade student at Rye Elementary; and Jarrett McKay Adams, 26, of Lincoln, Mass., great-great-great-great-great-grandson of John Adams and an Army veteran who served in Afghanistan and is now a student at Boston's Northeastern University.

We invited them to ask McCullough questions about this historic day. They wanted to know if the Founding Fathers's ideals have stood the test of time. Here, some of the discussion:

Moyer: Would the Founding Fathers have changed anything about the original Declaration of Independence and the Constitution?

McCullough: No. Both stood the test of time. In the end, I think they would be very astonished and very grateful that the government they put in place still stands. And that the Constitution, with its Bill of Rights, is still in practice and has been improved since their time. I think they would be very pleased that our public school system, for all of its problems, is still the basis of American education. They would be very pleased at the enlargement of freedom and equality brought forth by the consequences of the civil rights movement.

It's important to remember that the first words of the Declaration are, "When in the course of human events ..." These were human beings. They weren'st perfect individuals. But they left us a guiding star -- an architectural plan -- of what we could ideally create. It's up to each generation to work toward it.

Duplessis: Our forefathers were patriots. But has their definition of patriotism been redefined by modern leaders and our society today?

McCullough: No. Keep in mind that patriotism means love of country, and that concept has held true. Those who have served this country have been willing to give up more than they gained. They have had no idea how things would turn out. The men who signed the Declaration knew they were declaring themselves as traitors to England and would be hung if they were caught.

And, yes, we still sustain that kind of patriotism. Disagreement and dissonance, rivalry, bad feelings among people in positions of political leadership have been here from the beginning. It was true then, and it's true now.

Patrick: When Patrick Henry said, "Give me liberty or give me death," did he mean that it is our responsibility to send citizens to other countries to fight for freedom?

McCullough: Patrick Henry was talking about the independence and liberty of a country that didn'st yet exist. The Founding Fathers tried to do something that no colonial people had ever achieved before -- to break away from the mother country and create their own country. They were willing to risk everything to achieve it. They weren'st concerned with what was going to happen in the long haul. With respect to the concept of liberty as referred to in the Declaration, they knew that what they had established wasn'st perfect, and their work would have to be perfected over time. They wrote, "All men are created equal.'s's But Jefferson and Adams believed that slavery was going to bring on a terrible, bloody conflict. It would be the San Andreas Fault of their time, and they knew that future generations would deal with that.

Adams: How would our Founding Fathers feel about the level of influence that money has on politics?

McCullough: If John Adams came back today, he'sd be outraged over the role of money in politics now. I think that he would find it as appalling, or more so, than we do. Many say that is how it has always been. But it hasn'st. When you have people who get elected to the Senate because they spend millions of their own dollars, as well as other people's money -- that is not the democracy that they had intended.

Adams: Did the Founding Fathers believe that democracy would last?

McCullough: Many did not. They thought a monarchy would eventually evolve. Jefferson was very concerned about this. When he and Adams were in their most heated state as political rivals, he accused Adams of being a monarchist, which Adams was not. It was the worst thing you would call someone, like calling someone a communist during the Cold War.

In the later part of their lives, they had a reconciliation. They spent the last years of their lives writing to each other. These were some of the greatest letters in history. They had a huge celebration here in Quincy for the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration. Citizens came to John Adams in the last days of his life to ask him what they should say at the ceremony on his behalf. He thought for a minute and said, "Independence forever." They asked him if he'sd like to add a little bit more to that. He told them, "Not a word!" He was thinking about independence of the mind -- the freedom to think for yourself -- not just freedom of religion or speech. To many, this is one of the greatest of freedoms.

Adams died on the day of that celebration, July 4, 1826. And so did Thomas Jefferson. People at the time took this as a clear sign that the hand of God was involved with the fortunes of the United States of America.

USA WEEKEND extends its appreciation to Adams National Historical Park, the Monticello Association and the Red Hill Patrick Henry National Memorial for providing assistance with this article. On July 4, the Adams park will present an audience-interactive drama re-creating the passage of the Declaration of Independence, as well as another drama, Jefferson and Adams: A Stage Play. For more information on the park, call 617-770-1175 or go to nps.gov/adam.

America's distinguished historian David McCullough answered questions from the direct descendants of Founding Fathers.

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Adams: How would our Founding Fathers feel about the level of influence that money has on politics?

McCullough: If John Adams came back today, he'sd be outraged over the role of money in politics now. I think that he would find it as appalling, or more so, than we do. Many say that is how it has always been. But it hasn'st. When you have people who get elected to the Senate because they spend millions of their own dollars, as well as other people's money -- that is not the democracy that they had intended.

Ya probably didn't intend for them to be lifers and make a career out of it either.

You know all those former Presidents would not believe what Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. has done........Not to mention Clinton.....can't forget Clinton they'd probably hang em all from the highest light post if they were to come back and save us the hassel

Ya.....but in spite of it all I think they would be proud of most of the American people and to see we're still alive and kickin'.