Thread: Desperate politicians VAT as the best way to raise lots of m

Desperate politicians latch on to the idea of a VAT as the best way to raise lots of money

VAT’s The Matter?

Posted 10/06/2009 07:10 PM ET

Fiscal Policy: Sometimes the worst ideas are the most tempting. So it is with the value-added tax, or VAT — a potential money gusher for strapped governments but a massive new levy on all Americans.

At least twice a decade, it seems, desperate politicians latch on to the idea of a VAT as the best way to raise lots of money for their spending schemes. No wonder. Unlike our current system, a VAT would impose a uniform levy at each level of production, from raw materials to finished goods, so the revenue potential is huge.

Which is why it keeps coming up in our free-spending Capital.

Earlier this year, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, fresh from crafting a $700 billion bailout for the banks, a $787 billion "stimulus" package and untold billions more in other spending, suggested that a good way to pay for it all might be a VAT.

In recent days, as Congress feels the public's ire over its gross fiscal irresponsibility, the VAT is getting even more attention.

White House economic adviser and former Fed chairman Paul Volcker suggested it's one way the budget deficit could be closed, and another former Fed chief, Alan Greenspan, went a step further by calling it "the least worst solution" to our budget problems.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, asked point blank by TV interviewer Charlie Rose if she's considering a VAT, answered: "I would say, put everything on the table and subject it to the scrutiny that it deserves." She went on to extol the virtues of the VAT.

So, we've been warned. The VAT is a bad idea, however, and should be rejected out of hand. It wouldn't solve the core problem of fiscally incontinent politicians; it would only give them more money to waste, and lead to even bigger government.

This massive levy would fall on all Americans, including those earning less than $250,000, the group President Obama promised would not pay a dime in higher taxes.

Tax analyst Curtis Dubay of the Heritage Foundation notes that, because of the way it's structured, a VAT tax even at low levels would be a disaster.

Using data for 2008, a VAT of just 1% would raise an added $63 billion. Make it "just" 5%, and it's a $315 billion annual tax hike on all Americans — or roughly $2,670 on every household, including the poor and middle-class.

To sell the idea to gullible taxpayers, politicians play down these problems, focusing instead on tax "efficiency" and the idea that the VAT is a low rate applied against a broad base of taxpayers.

But once imposed, it's like the camel's nose under the proverbial tent. Any time the government wants more money, it can raise the tax . Once at 5%, what's to stop them from raising it to 6% or 7%? Some advocates have already suggested a level as high as 20%.

University of Chicago economists Casey Mulligan and (Nobel Prize-winning) Gary Becker found in a 2003 paper that European nations had used the VAT as a way to expand government.

Europe began its experiment with the VAT in 1965. Today, by European Union law, all nations must have a VAT of at least 15%. According to Cato Institute economist Dan Mitchell, the average tax burden in post-VAT Europe has surged from 28% of GDP to just under 40%; the U.S., by contrast, had grown from 25% to 28%. Mitchell also found a correlation between the size of the VAT and the size of government.

If spending continues at the current rate, the U.S. will go more than $13 trillion into the red over the next decade. The answer to such irresponsibility is smaller government and lower taxes, not a massive new burden that will just make matters worse.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysi ... ?id=508243

Mexican friend used to cook a vat of pinto beans to put in a tortilla and eat. Any idea what kind of recipe? Mexican friend's grandparents would cook up a vat of pinto beans and we would put them in fresh tortillas and roll them up and eat them. The pinto beans seemed basic, but unsure of what exactly was put in them when cooked. Is there a traditional Mexican recipie similar to what I'm describing?

Originally Posted by kourtney

Mexican friend used to cook a vat of pinto beans to put in a tortilla and eat. Any idea what kind of recipe? Mexican friend's grandparents would cook up a vat of pinto beans and we would put them in fresh tortillas and roll them up and eat them. The pinto beans seemed basic, but unsure of what exactly was put in them when cooked. Is there a traditional Mexican recipie similar to what I'm describing?

Perhaps a site like recipezaar.com or allrecipes.com could answer your question.

Be advised that "vat" is usually referred to as a "pot" or "dutch oven" or "crock pot" on those sites.

Recipe Zaar also has recipes for making your own tortillas to roll them in.

I'm at a loss as to why you don't just ask your friend for the recipe instead of posting here for it, though.

Originally Posted by Yonderis

Originally Posted by kourtney

Mexican friend used to cook a vat of pinto beans to put in a tortilla and eat. Any idea what kind of recipe? Mexican friend's grandparents would cook up a vat of pinto beans and we would put them in fresh tortillas and roll them up and eat them. The pinto beans seemed basic, but unsure of what exactly was put in them when cooked. Is there a traditional Mexican recipie similar to what I'm describing?

Perhaps a site like recipezaar.com or allrecipes.com could answer your question.

Be advised that "vat" is usually referred to as a "pot" or "dutch oven" or "crock pot" on those sites.

Recipe Zaar also has recipes for making your own tortillas to roll them in.

I'm at a loss as to why you don't just ask your friend for the recipe, though.

we call those people Trolls Yonderis and welcome to ALIPAC

Hi Airborne and thank you. Good to be here. I'm in good company.

Yes. I thought so. "It's" been reported. I'm sure he/she knows EXACTLY how to cook a VAT of beans.

"It" must have nothing better to do while the pinto beans are soaking overnight before cooking.

"It" can run along now back to La Raza and report me.