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Thread: The FBI Raids on Trump’s Attorney Are Bad News for Trump

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    The FBI Raids on Trump’s Attorney Are Bad News for Trump

    The FBI Raids on Trump’s Attorney Are Bad News for Trump

    Special Counsel Robert Mueller would not do this lightly.

    By NORMAN EISEN, NOAH BOOKBINDER and CONOR SHAW
    April 09, 2018

    Monday’s FBI raids on Michael Cohen’s office, home and hotel room are the clearest sign yet that the president’s longtime attorney is in serious legal jeopardy. They also represent yet another threatening development facing Donald Trump after more than a year of investigations into his campaign and presidency—perhaps the most direct danger yet.

    No wonder he’s lashing out wildly—calling the raids “a disgraceful situation” and, absurdly, “an attack on our country.”

    The evidence sought by investigators reportedly relates to bank fraud and campaign finance violations, both of which primarily point to one thing. Cohen apparently used a home equity credit line to borrow the $130,000 he paid Stormy Daniels for her silence just weeks before the 2016 election. If Cohen lied to obtain credit from a federally insured financial institution, that is a felony punishable by up to 30 years’ imprisonment. And because the payment was likely an in-kind contribution to the Trump campaign, it could constitute a willful violation of campaign contribution limits, a separate felony punishable by up to five years’ imprisonment.

    That the investigation of Cohen was apparently referred by special counsel Robert Mueller to the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York—a Trump appointee—is an early indication that at this point, the matter is not directly related to the Russia investigation. But that doesn’t mean Trump’s exposure is any less serious. Cohen knows where the LLCs are hidden. He’s been at the center of Trump’s financial universe for decades. If he is as exposed as he seems on the Daniels payment, one wonders what information he might be able to offer prosecutors—including Mueller—in exchange for a deal.

    In addition, while the guilty pleas of Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos, deputy campaign chair Rick Gates, and former national security adviser Michael Flynn were all significant, none of them directly jeopardized the president the way a Cohen deal would. If the FBI seized evidence showing that Trump directed Cohen’s payment to Daniels, Trump may also have committed a felony violation of campaign finance law. If Cohen and Trump worked together to come up with the scheme, they might also both be guilty of conspiring to commit a campaign finance violation. And if Trump (notwithstanding his recent denial) actually knew that he was the beneficiary of the nondisclosure agreement, he might be guilty of a separate offense—failing to report that asset on his personal financial disclosure form.

    The president seemed to recognize the seriousness of the development immediately. He launched one of his most predictable and worrying tirades yet. In addition to blaming the Cohen raids on his political opponents and berating Attorney General Jeff Sessions for his recusal from the Russia investigation, Trump floated the possibility of firing Mueller (who ironically acted exactly as Trump would have wanted him to and referred allegations potentially outside of his scope to another prosecutor rather than expanding the scope of his own investigation).

    We of course know that this possibility is not just theoretical. Recall that last June, according to The New York Times, Trump ordered that Mueller be fired before backing off when White House counsel Don McGahn refused to carry out the command. Trump has also previously secured the resignation of Attorney General Sessions, only to be persuaded to undo it by former chief of staff Reince Priebus.

    That the president of the United States is one file cabinet of seized evidence away from possible exposure to a felony charge is a remarkable thing. That the facts giving rise to such a possibility have nothing to do with obstruction of justice or the various crimes that might fall under the “collusion” umbrella is even more noteworthy given the dizzying speed at which Mueller has proceeded. If Mueller referred this matter, one wonders whether he caught Cohen in any Russia-related malfeasance and whether Trump was involved.

    For Trump, then, the trouble is that even if he is able to weather this particular storm, the roof shielding him may be blown away in the process.

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...mueller-217841
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Michael Cohen didn't violate any laws. This is a witch hunt, to waste his time, his money and tarnish his reputation, just like what they've done to all the others. Watching all these good people who wanted nothing other than to either run good businesses or help a great candidate become President to help US fix our country is just ..... awful.

    I don't think most Americans want to see this happening to people because they supported a particular candidate over another. I also don't think most Americans want to see this happening because a candidate wanted to improve our country's relationship with Russia.

    Disgusting.
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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Is Mueller doing this to Cohen to try to boil Trump into firing him which excuses Mueller from never finding any "collusion" in the Russia Hoax?

    Congress, you need to repeal the law about "lying to the FBI". These are not statements that were made under oath, these are statements made in casual off the cuff interviews. No one has any documents with them, they don't have lawyers, they answer questions to the best of their recollection at the time, then the FBI goes out there spends millions of dollars gathering up phone data from the NSA or your texts on your phone or emails from your computer and they look for discrepancies, "aha, liar, you told us this but your text or emails or documents say this ..", draw an indictment and there you are facing years in prison for each instance they can find.

    This law is entrapment in the 1st degree. I first became aware of this law in the Martha Stewart case. They tried to convict her of insider trading. It was an insider trading investigation. She was innocent of insider trading, but they sent that woman to prison for "lying to the FBI" because she said she spoke with her broker when it was in fact his male assistant. The FBI and DOJ of the United States bankrupted her company, cost all of those shareholders their investment, cost Martha almost everything she had worked for, and send her to federal prison for 18 months because she said in a casual interview with the FBI that she spoke with her broker on an international call on a cell phone when she was at an airport in a foreign country, when it turned out to be his assistant instead of him.

    And you know who the lead DOJ official in that malicious vindictive prosecution of Martha Stewart was? None other than James P Comey.

    REPEAL THAT LAW NOW. That law was passed to hold federal witnesses accountable for telling the truth against others during investigations, it wasn't passed as a tool to entrap the witnesses against themselves by converting their cooperation and statements into meaningless crimes with huge penalties in order to extort false testimony in the prosecution of others. Repeal the law.
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    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Is Mueller doing this to Cohen to try to boil Trump into firing him which excuses Mueller from never finding any "collusion" in the Russia Hoax?

    Congress, you need to repeal the law about "lying to the FBI". These are not statements that were made under oath, these are statements made in casual off the cuff interviews. No one has any documents with them, they don't have lawyers, they answer questions to the best of their recollection at the time, then the FBI goes out there spends millions of dollars gathering up phone data from the NSA or your texts on your phone or emails from your computer and they look for discrepancies, "aha, liar, you told us this but your text or emails or documents say this ..", draw an indictment and there you are facing years in prison for each instance they can find.

    This law is entrapment in the 1st degree. I first became aware of this law in the Martha Stewart case. They tried to convict her of insider trading. It was an insider trading investigation. She was innocent of insider trading, but they sent that woman to prison for "lying to the FBI" because she said she spoke with her broker when it was in fact his male assistant. The FBI and DOJ of the United States bankrupted her company, cost all of those shareholders their investment, cost Martha almost everything she had worked for, and send her to federal prison for 18 months because she said in a casual interview with the FBI that she spoke with her broker on an international call on a cell phone when she was at an airport in a foreign country, when it turned out to be his assistant instead of him.

    And you know who the lead DOJ official in that malicious vindictive prosecution of Martha Stewart was? None other than James P Comey.

    REPEAL THAT LAW NOW. That law was passed to hold federal witnesses accountable for telling the truth against others during investigations, it wasn't passed as a tool to entrap the witnesses against themselves by converting their cooperation and statements into meaningless crimes with huge penalties in order to extort false testimony in the prosecution of others. Repeal the law.
    LOL ...... Not exactly how the Martha Stewart thing went down, but if you want to believe the woman who was found guilty by 12 of her peers, eight of them being women, is innocent, go ahead. Honestly, I've got better things to do than argue the finer details of why Martha Stewart was guilty. No one, not even celebrities, are above the law.

    Oh, and for the record, no interviews conducted by the FBI are "casual off the cuff interviews". By law each interviewee is fully informed of their rights and of the potential penalties for lying to federal investigators. Martha Stewart lied and it was a slam dunk case. She is lucky she wasn't prosecuted for insider trading ..... her celebrity did save her from that. When your broker tells you that the CEO of a company is dumping $5 million of his own shares, plus his daughters holdings, and you immediately act on that information, it is considered insider trading because it is a crime for a broker to reveal one clients actions to another.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    LOL!! Martha Stewart was prosecuted for insider trading and the jury of her peers found her innocent of insider trading. She was only convicted of "lying to the FBI". Yes, interviews with the FBI are casual. They are not under oath, no attorneys are present, you're asked to answer some questions about what they're investigating and you try to be helpful. Everyone needs to know that you can not cooperate with the FBI because of this law. So everyone just needs to button up and refuse to cooperate or help them. The ole adage of if you've done nothing wrong so what have you got to hide has farted and flown out the window because of this law that no other law enforcement agency has in our country because of the obvious entrapment and abuse opportunities, as if law enforcement didn't already have enough of those.

    But yes,MW, please trot along to something you have time for, interest in and at least some minimal knowledge about.

    Last edited by Judy; 04-10-2018 at 03:34 PM.
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  6. #6
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    LOL!! Martha Stewart was prosecuted for insider trading and the jury of her peers found her innocent of insider trading. She was only convicted of "lying to the FBI". Yes, interviews with the FBI are casual. They are not under oath, no attorneys are present, you're asked to answer some questions about what they're investigating and you try to be helpful. Everyone needs to know that you can not cooperate with the FBI because of this law. So everyone just needs to button up and refuse to cooperate or help them. The ole adage of if you've done nothing wrong so what have you got to hide has farted and flown out the window because of this law that no other law enforcement agency has in our country because of the obvious entrapment and abuse opportunities, as if law enforcement didn't already have enough of those.

    But yes,MW, please trot along to something you have time for, interest in and at least some minimal knowledge about.

    No, no, no. No interview with federal law enforcement officials is "casual". Geez, to even suggest such a thing is ludicrous! Anything you divulge to a federal investigator can be held against you in a court of law, which is as it should be.

    The DOJ did not prosecute Martha Stewart for insider trading. A federal grand jury indicted Stewart on five criminal charge, none of which were insider trading. She was prosecuted for securities fraud, conspiracy and making false false statements to federal agents. There was a civil case filed for insider trading by the Securities and Exchange Commission, but that was separate and it's not why she went to prison. You do know the difference between a criminal case and civil case, don't you?

    So, like I said, she was not prosecuted for insider trading because Comey never charged her with insider trading!

    Geez, Judy, I don't just typically shoot from the hip like you. I normally research topics before I comment on them. It probably wouldn't hurt you to do the same.

    But yes,MW, please trot along to something you have time for, interest in and at least some minimal knowledge about.
    Actually, I could be saying the same thing to you where "minimal knowledge" is concerned.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    LOL ...... Not exactly how the Martha Stewart thing went down, but if you want to believe the woman who was found guilty by 12 of her peers, eight of them being women, is innocent, go ahead.
    Thank you! I do! I'm not a Martha Stewart fan, but I have had enough experience with investigators to know that they often ad-lib what they claim to have been said. I even had a case where a court reporter falsified the official record of a court hearing.

    Quote Originally Posted by MW
    Oh, and for the record, no interviews conducted by the FBI are "casual off the cuff interviews". By law each interviewee is fully informed of their rights and of the potential penalties for lying to federal investigators.
    I voluntarily talked to police in a case. I was read the Miranda. But the interview was not recorded. They report had me saying things that weren't said. However, the officer did not think I lied. He did, however have a problem with one incident which he and other officers questioned four of us about. All four recollections were different about the supposedly same event. Well, I would say that show we certainly didn't conspire to get our stories the same. Yet in court papers the mediator, who refused to ever talk to me, stated of the police report, that I had "conveniently left out anything incriminating"! Implied guilt where the investigators found none.

    Quote Originally Posted by MW
    Martha Stewart lied and it was a slam dunk case.
    And because Colmey said Gen. Flynn lied, you take that to the bank, even though those agents who actually interviewed him allegedly claim they didn't feel he lied.

    Quote Originally Posted by MW
    She is lucky she wasn't prosecuted for insider trading .....
    Yes! But that is apparently because there wasn't sufficient evidence to support prosecution.

    Quote Originally Posted by MW
    her celebrity did save her from that. When your broker tells you that the CEO of a company is dumping $5 million of his own shares, plus his daughters holdings, and you immediately act on that information, it is considered insider trading because it is a crime for a broker to reveal one clients actions to another.
    Didn't you start that post with "Honestly, I've got better things to do than argue the finer details of why Martha Stewart was guilty."?

    This raid wreaks of unconstitutionality. That matter was not within the scope of whether President Trump colluded with Russia. That this prostitute made an agreement which she now wants to break (for more money?) has nothing to do with Russian involvement. Mueller acted as a advocate for the prostitute in giving information to the NYDA. He, no longer should have any credibility as an honest arbitrator!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Oh how sad, MW doesn't understand that insider trading is treated in the criminal courts as "securities fraud" and "conspiracy". SEC files a separate suit to try to get fines. They didn't get any fines and Comey didn't get any convictions on Martha Stewart because she was innocent so said both juries. The criminal jury said she was guilty of "lying to the FBI". The jury said afterwards they thought she should have testified and since she didn't convicted her of "lying to the FBI". Apparently they didn't know not testifying can't be held against you or disregarded it.
    Last edited by Judy; 04-10-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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    It is sad but true that some of those who are to uphold the law are too often the ones lying and violating the law. They are not beyond doing unethical and/or prejudicial things while knowing the target is innocent or not deserving of the far reaching charges.

    Bleeding individuals financially is another tactic to get a desired outcome. The corruption we see in government happens in the justice system.
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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtdc View Post
    Thank you! I do! I'm not a Martha Stewart fan, but I have had enough experience with investigators to know that they often ad-lib what they claim to have been said. I even had a case where a court reporter falsified the official record of a court hearing.

    I voluntarily talked to police in a case. I was read the Miranda. But the interview was not recorded. They report had me saying things that weren't said. However, the officer did not think I lied. He did, however have a problem with one incident which he and other officers questioned four of us about. All four recollections were different about the supposedly same event. Well, I would say that show we certainly didn't conspire to get our stories the same. Yet in court papers the mediator, who refused to ever talk to me, stated of the police report, that I had "conveniently left out anything incriminating"! Implied guilt where the investigators found none.

    And because Colmey said Gen. Flynn lied, you take that to the bank, even though those agents who actually interviewed him allegedly claim they didn't feel he lied.

    Yes! But that is apparently because there wasn't sufficient evidence to support prosecution.

    Didn't you start that post with "Honestly, I've got better things to do than argue the finer details of why Martha Stewart was guilty."?

    This raid wreaks of unconstitutionality. That matter was not within the scope of whether President Trump colluded with Russia. That this prostitute made an agreement which she now wants to break (for more money?) has nothing to do with Russian involvement. Mueller acted as a advocate for the prostitute in giving information to the NYDA. He, no longer should have any credibility as an honest arbitrator!
    YES!!
    Last edited by Judy; 04-10-2018 at 04:53 PM.
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