Thread: Progressive Education Corrupted The People / Constitution

Originally Posted by roundabout

Thanks for your clarifications on some of your thoughts Judy. I agree with your original assessment, Christian schools as models are to be viewed and examined and admired. Their success warants attention.

Judy wrote,

These are not volunteers at these schools I examined, they are well-paid professionals. Perhaps you're thinking of the Catholic schools that often times use nuns and priests to teach for free? That model doesn't work at all for the general public, but the Christian school model does.

The Christian charity that I was refering to, was not teachers working for free. Christian charity can come in many other manners. Extra effort on the parts of the teachers and parents. Charity from the local Church towards some expenses for whatever. Christian charity is not stipulated, it is given of free will or desire.


[quote:1ad3o6nz]The Christian principle that I admire for vouchers is their business model and the quality of the curriculum, the sincere interest in the students and their well-being, and if this is because they're Christians, then so be it,

The admiration that you refer to is not due to an "if" it is because they're Christians, it is because they are Christians. They expect excellence as a result, as how could it be any other way when you have Jesus Christ on your side?

I've done the math on $4000 vouchers and it works. The majority of the US is Christian, roundabout, so whether you're a Christian working for a Christian school or a Christian business person working for a school following the Christian business model shouldn't make any difference.

Provided you are saying that the teachers and business administrators are Christians, AND, the parents are Christians, OR, admire the Christian principles and morals then I agree with you, there should be a great outcome. The Christian model that you said you admired, works because of these parameters, not because of any particular business model that could be utilized in a secular atmosphere. One trying to turn a silk purse into a nylon purse hardly seems worth while.

[/quote:1ad3o6nz]As to morals, behavior and all that, there will be no restrictions for policies and procedures for the private schools so long as they don't violate any business laws or discriminate against students or applicants based on race or religion, etc.

This part,.. I am not sure we are on the same page. How would a school operate as a Christian school, or one with Christian tenets, hire a atheist for the science class? Or a gay teacher to teach health and show the teenage young ladies how to put condoms on a banana? I think it is alot of these anti-discrimination lawsuits and laws that have brought our public schools to where we are today. Afterall, there was a time when public schools had prayer in school and no one objected til the atheist came into power.

Separation of Church and state, or the manipulation of such a slick slogan taken from a statement of the past and twisted to confuse the populace has done the damage we see today. Men have attempted to play the role of gods and have failed,.......as usual.

[/quote]

Yes, I agree with you. And I don't see any conflict with what the vouchers can do using the Christian school business model, even absent faith-based teaching during the regular class day, and this doesn't mean abandoning principles or codes of conduct or policies and procedures related to Christian principles. As we know, there are many varieties of Christianity so just as many could and would be reflected in the schools just as there will be varieties of other faiths reflected in the schools they open.

But, what I believe will happen over-time is that the highest level of education at the lowest possible cost will rise to the top of the list of objectives in all the schools no matter what the faith is of the owners or teachers and what will drive this is the competition and the impetus to get the job done in a manner that improves results for the students, parents, neighborhoods and society which keeps the enrollment up in the schools and the revenue coming in.

There will be many schools for students and parents to choose from as a result of moving to this voucher program. And the beauty of it is if students are enrolled in a school that parents thought would be good for their children and they subsequently find out it's not what it was cracked up to be or isn't what they really wanted, they're free to leave, get a pro-rated refund and move on to a better school that does meet their expectations.

You mentioned about teachers showing children how to put a condom on a banana. Isn't that just absolutely disgraceful and a waste of taxpayer dollars? There are so many things going on in our public schools that shouldn't be going on and far too little going on that should be. I had a wonderful school, low-budget in the second poorest county in the state, but what a school, what a group of teachers and administrators, and the results showed that having 45 to 47 students in a class as mine did, having old books, a dress code, desks and chairs that our parents generation had used and carved their names in, didn't affect learning one iota. If all students in America could have what my little poor county gave in the way of public education, we wouldn't be bankrupt and we'd have the smartest population in the world with ease. But somewhere along the way, in the past 25 to 30 years, public education changed and instead of being concerned about actually educating children at the lowest cost, the process became obsessed with more funding, more teachers, more students, more classrooms, more administrators and with it more sex, more agendas, more indecency, more decadence, more stupidity, more dropouts and more functional illiteracy.

And it's not salvageable. Public schools are a white elephant whose time has come and gone. It's time to pass school vouchers and set our people free to choose a school that suits the needs of their children and do so at a cost to taxpayers that's one-half the cost of what we're spending today. If Christian schools can do a great job with tuitions of $4,000 a year or less, then taxpayers should not spend 1 dime more than that on public education K-12. If parents want to spend more, then of course they're free to do so out of their own pockets, but not at taxpayer expense.

Hatch needs to hear from us! Please take action!

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This may be a little off base but I am thinking that schooling should be done on line with parents and the students. Forget about the schools they are a total waste of time and money...The Dept of Education needs to go, we have a broken system our tax dollars are better spent in our own cities, counties and States. It has turned into big business and the children have been forgotten in this mess we call the "education system".. These children are not getting a proper education and were wasting our tax dollars. It is turning into a high paid babysitting service. I am also sick of all this indoctrination and propaganda crap that is supposed to be education and this is from all sides, political, religious and etc. These children are supposed to be the future. I fear for the future with what these so called educators are teaching our children most can't even read or do common math when they graduate these so called teachers are wasting our children's future and not cultivating their young minds. Shame on them all. They all need to be fired for incompetence just like our politicians for allowing this to happen. Will someone explain to me when did the very basic, 3 "R"S change from reading, writing, and arithmetic? This system we now have is an abomination of its old self. It appears we all have been asleep at the wheel as usual were all at fault here maybe if we admit it we will be forced to do something about it before we have lost another generation to mediocrity.


Kathyet

Originally Posted by kathyet

This may be a little off base but I am thinking that schooling should be done on line with parents and the students. Forget about the schools they are a total waste of time and money...The Dept of Education needs to go, we have a broken system our tax dollars are better spent in our own cities, counties and States. It has turned into big business and the children have been forgotten in this mess we call the "education system".. These children are not getting a proper education and were wasting our tax dollars. It is turning into a high paid babysitting service. I am also sick of all this indoctrination and propaganda crap that is supposed to be education and this is from all sides, political, religious and etc. These children are supposed to be the future. I fear for the future with what these so called educators are teaching our children most can't even read or do common math when they graduate these so called teachers are wasting our children's future and not cultivating their young minds. Shame on them all. They all need to be fired for incompetence just like our politicians for allowing this to happen. Will someone explain to me when did the very basic, 3 "R"S change from reading, writing, and arithmetic? This system we now have is an abomination of its old self. It appears we all have been asleep at the wheel as usual were all at fault here maybe if we admit it we will be forced to do something about it before we have lost another generation to mediocrity.


Kathyet

I agree with you Kathyet, although I still support a physical school for children, but I no longer support public schools. I had the advantage as did many others of a lean, mean but caring and responsible public school system that focused on the 3 R's, the facts of history, the facts of science, social studies, literature, civics, health and still had plenty of artistic and creative opportunities through drama, arts, music and of course all the sports. What has happened to this system since then is an absolute national disgrace. We spend $600 billion a year on K-12 and 30% to 50% of the students who graduate or drop out are functionally illiterate.

We need to cut that expenditure to $300 billion a year by privatizing the system wtih $4,000 a head school vouches with $8,000 a head vouchers for special education and cancel their eligibility for vouchers unless 95% of their students pass the grades on a functionally literate basis.

There are millions of Americans with knowledge, skills, experience and degrees who can become teachers for a privatized in a heart-beat and do a better job than what these professional teachers and administrators who blame students, parents and demographics for their education failures are doing today. I won't stand for it. When you pay someone to teach, it's not the fault of the parents or the student that the student didn't learn, it's the sole fault of the teacher who failed to teach.

We need a new motto:

"If you didn't learn, I didn't teach."

The bucks stop with the people collecting $600 billion a year of taxpayer money to educate K-12 students and failing to do that.

I haven't thought much about the on-line education but it's working very well for college students so it may indeed work well for a large number of students in the K-12 system and should most definitely be investigated as part of a privatized system.

EMERGENCY ALERT STOP MARYLAND IN-STATE TUITION NOW!

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I came across this simple sentence and thought I would share it on this thread. It is from a book written back in the late 1800's, but that was a revision of an earlier 1830's or 40's original publication.

".....What good is knowledge if it only makes for a better slave?"

I remember Reagan being charged with the task of getting rid of the Dept. of Ed. and then after election opting for revisions instead, pushing for technical, and studies that would train the next generation for the "service sector' economy that he told us we were heading into. Looking back at the education reform under Reagan,... whats the verdict?

Perhaps we did all right educating the "service sector" "slave?"