Thread: Ron Paul on “Repeal 1913

Ron Paul on “Repeal 1913!â€

I totally support repeal of the 1913 Federal Revenue Act. For some historical history of this act, that established the Infernal Revenue Code for income-based taxation, Republicans vehemently opposed this act at the time because they new the transfer of power from the people of the US to corporations and the government hacks resulting from the incestuous relationship this act created. They also knew this was the beginning of a government tyranny over the people of our country that would evenutally bankrupt it.

I encourage everyone to study the FairTax, understand how it works, why it's the best tax proposal that has eve been presented to the American People. It not only gives all workers, earners, investors, retirees and savers their money back, it terminates the incestuous relationship between corporate America and our government, and returns the power of the people over our federal government and accountability of our federal government to the people of the United States where it belongs.

The legislation, HB 25, requires repeal of the 16th Amendment within 7 years of its passage under a sunset provision.

As to repeal of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, Republicans also vehemently opposed this act. Today, repealing it is not as simple as repealing the 16th Amendment, because to my knowledge, there is no plan to replace the system that act created. But as soon as there is a viable sound plan to replace it, I will gladly support its repeal.

These two acts of 1913 have played major roles in the bankruptcy of the United States. Fix the easiest one first with passing the FairTax, with that one resolved, we can then focus on how to replace the Federal Reserve with a better banking system. But we know we need to go slowly on this, because globalists are eying this opportunity to control our banking system and money supply with unprecedented fervor.

Actually, the Internal Revenue Service came first. It was passed in February 1913 under Taft, as Wilson didn't take office until March 4th. It was under FDR's first term that it was changed to January 20th. But Knox convinced Congress to enact the Internal Revenue Service and it's insidious code.

The Federal Reserve Act was tied up in the Senate, and on Dec. 23rd 1913, when there were only 3 Senators holding down the fort for the Christams and New Year break, did it finally get through. This is because the Sentae did not adjourn "sine die". And the 3 senators were all for the passage as it was passed on a unanimous voice vote.

Also, one must look at the Supreme Court decisions between 1916 and 1923, as to the Court's attitudes on the 16th Ammendment. But the powers that be want you to think these decisions have no bearing. Then the question must be raised, as to every decision the highest court i the land has made. And if one looks, one finds out that the court has ruled time and again that the 16th Ammendment gave Congress no new taxing power. If you weren't taxable before the 16th Ammendment, you weren't taxable after the 16th Ammendment. Wages and earnings are an even exchange, and as such, there is no profit or gain from such activity. Therefore there can be no tax on wages and earnings. And that income as defined by the court, is "profit or gain" from corporate activity. I have gone through the Interal Revenue Code, and no where in it is the word "income" defined. You won't find it anywhere. And yet they use the term to swindle people out of their hard earned money, and if you don't comply, they will jail you and confiscate everything you own, over a word that has no definition in their codebook. Sounds more like something out of 1984 or Brave New World, than something the Framers would approve of.

The other issue is as Henry Cabot Lodge was worried about, was government getting involved with private banking. This is what the Federal Reverse Act did. It got government involved in banking like it had never been before, and the IRS is the collection agency for the Fed. They use the same tactics that the mob used to get jailed for, but since it's the government indirectly doing it through reciprocity with the big commercial banks, it's o.k. to do. Also one must look at he seal of the Fed. It says, "Incorporated May 18, 1914".

This is a pretty good one, The Money Masters (How International Bankers gained control of America)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 936&hl=en#

Here's a good one here too:

http://www.cafrman.com/

Also, the Biggest Game in Town:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 850200097#

Judy, also I apologise for not continuing our discussion, as I lost track of the thread we were conversing back and for with. No biggie though.

Yes, that's right, Hylander, the Federal Revenue Act came first. They needed it to ensure the power to tax the people at government whim to support the shenanigans they planned through the Federal Reserve Act.

Nice post, Hylander. Very informative about the history of these 2 abhorrent legislations.

Thankyou Judy!

I was hoping you would look at the 2 lower links, start with the bottom one, then go to the middle one. This is why I stand against any new ideas of any tax until we get the problem dealt with first. Otherwise we reward them for bad behavior. It is like giving a 2 year old a cookie for playing with electrical sockets on the wall.

Not that there haven't been a few 2 year olds I wouldn't have minded doing that with. But my better judgement restrained me.

So what I say about any new ideas of tax, is be careful about what you wish for. For you may not like the outcome.

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Thankyou Judy!

I was hoping you would look at the 2 lower links, start with the bottom one, then go to the middle one. This is why I stand against any new ideas of any tax until we get the problem dealt with first. Otherwise we reward them for bad behavior. It is like giving a 2 year old a cookie for playing with electrical sockets on the wall.

Not that there haven't been a few 2 year olds I wouldn't have minded doing that with. But my better judgement restrained me.

So what I say about any new ideas of tax, is be careful about what you wish for. For you may not like the outcome.

Oh yes, that's very true. But I've been studying sales taxes versus income and property taxes for over 2 decades and have studied the FairTax now for almost 4 years, so I'm sure it's the one I want to support and I support passing it before we repeal the 16th Amendment because I would want the replacement system in place first at the federal level and then let the states take however much time they need up to 7 years to ratify the repeal fo the 16th Amendment.

See, under the FairTax, the states collect the taxes and are paid a fee for doing so. It renders them a fee, rather substantial fee, of 1/4 of 1% of the taxes they collect, so lets say the national collections are $2.7 trillion or lets roun to $3 trillion for easy math. $3 trillion divided by 50 states is on average $60 billion per state. Larger states will collect more and smaller states will collect less, but on average that's the per state collection volume. Each state will retain a fee for the service so that's $150 million a year per state of new revenue. Plus, all their retail collector's collect the same fee for their portion of the services, so that's another $150 million a year of new revenue in the private sector. So combined, the average state will be a new revenue source, 1/2 for government and 1/2 for the private sector of $300 million a year.

So, needless to say, the repeal of the 16th Amendment will be in the best interest of the states and their business community, so I'm very confident the states will ratify the repeal of the 16th Amendment, and soon after, reconsider the stupidity of their own cumbersome mandated tax systems and go FairTax all the way. Now Americans control all levels of their governments, the way it should be and should have been all along, with no more property taxes, no more school taxes, no more state income taxes or even state sales taxes, they'll move all their tax systems to the FairTax.

Then they'll want to get out of this outrageous bottomless pit of public education, approve school vouchers and then we can privatize education and let the private sector educate the students it's expected to hire when they graduate.

It's all inter-locked.

One day when we have time, we can discuss school vouchers and privatizing education. We've debated this on some other forums, and the evidence is clear that US taxpayers from local to federal are paying 2 x what the actual cost of more than adequate education should cost. As a nation, we spend over $600 billion a year on education, yet we're flumping in every critical area education was to address. With $4,000 vouchers, less than 1/2 the cost per student today of our existing system, for regular classroom education and $8,000 vouchers for students who require special education, we can cut the cost of education by 1/2 while improving the quality of the educations of American School Children.

We can't do that now with the existing tax system. But with the FairTax we can, because with the FairTax, education corporations will be formed and highly skilled, highly educated people from the private sector will take stints in private education companies and I believe throw their whole hearts, minds and knowledge into the task of creating the best education system the world has ever known. But today, it's not possible because of the tax rates that increase the cost and raise the risk of investing in private education companies. Some of the not-for-profits can do it, and are generally doing a great job, but we don't want just not-for-profit type educators from special interest or religious groups, we want secular private sector educators for the bulk of the schools because that's how the children can learn the most and receive the highest possible level of education at the lowest possible cost.

Now, for the fair tax to work, the one defining issue is the central bank and our fiat currency. As long as every dollar in circulation either real, or digital entry in a ledger, is debt based. The other issue is the "fractional reserve" banking issue.

The put it simply, the congress orders 10 billion dollars from the Fed through the Treasury. This money is deposited at 1 billion ammounts in 10 banks. So that's 1 billion in each, and with that one billion in reserve, the bank can create another 9 billion off that 1 billion that was deposited. And it is all created out of thin air.

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits".- SIR JOSIAH STAMP,(President of the Bank of England in the 1920's, the second richest man in Britain)

Even Abraham Lincoln understood this:

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the Country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed."
Abraham Lincoln

"The government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credit needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers. The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of government, but it is the government’s greatest creative opportunity. The financing of all public enterprise, and the conduct of the treasury will become matters of practical administration. Money will cease to be master and will then become servant of humanity."
Abraham Lincoln

So the real underlying issue here is getting us off this baseless fiat currency, and back on to precious metals as the Constitution demands. Both silver and gold, as they are difficult to manipulate. So be careful when only one is mentioned, as both are required by the Constitution.

And if these ageless principles are administrerred and followed as prescribed by the Framers, I think it will be seen that even the "flat tax" is no longer necessary.

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Now, for the fair tax to work, the one defining issue is the central bank and our fiat currency. As long as every dollar in circulation either real, or digital entry in a ledger, is debt based. The other issue is the "fractional reserve" banking issue.

The put it simply, the congress orders 10 billion dollars from the Fed through the Treasury. This money is deposited at 1 billion ammounts in 10 banks. So that's 1 billion in each, and with that one billion in reserve, the bank can create another 9 billion off that 1 billion that was deposited. And it is all created out of thin air.

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits".- SIR JOSIAH STAMP,(President of the Bank of England in the 1920's, the second richest man in Britain)

Even Abraham Lincoln understood this:

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the Country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed."
Abraham Lincoln

"The government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credit needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers. The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of government, but it is the government’s greatest creative opportunity. The financing of all public enterprise, and the conduct of the treasury will become matters of practical administration. Money will cease to be master and will then become servant of humanity."
Abraham Lincoln

So the real underlying issue here is getting us off this baseless fiat currency, and back on to precious metals as the Constitution demands. Both silver and gold, as they are difficult to manipulate. So be careful when only one is mentioned, as both are required by the Constitution.

And if these ageless principles are administrerred and followed as prescribed by the Framers, I think it will be seen that even the "flat tax" is no longer necessary.

I oppose the "flat tax", which is just a flat rate, two rate version of the existing mandated income-based tax system and doesn't solve anything. I support the FairTax which is a national retail sales tax to replace the existing mandated income-based tax system.

Yes, I understand about the fiat currency, but that's a money supply issue, not a tax issue about what portion of the money you earned has to be paid to the government, much of it before you've even received it.

I don't have as big a problem with fiat currency as some do, and while I would like to change our Federal Reserve System, I don't as yet have a plan and haven't seen one from anyone else that establishes a better system.

Lincoln's statement was long before the establishment of the Federal Reserve. This is what I'm speaking about when I suggest, we must have a plan for a different banking system long before we dispense with the one we have now because the globalists will return to the bad acts of banking long before we had a Federal Reserve to regulate it somewhat.

Republicans supported central banking in 1913, they just didn't approve of the terms and conditions of the Federal Reserve Act. It's very complicated and very dangerous. The first thing we have to fix is the tax system which I feel the FairTax does perfectly, so individuals control the purse of the government, as well as their own earnings. Then, we have to protect the destinations of our money supply by stopping illegal immigration, protecting our trade and legalize/regulating/taxing under the FairTax the illegal drug trade and reduce expenditures on foreign produced imported oil and drill baby drill our own.

Then, with our borders secure, our population legal, our tax system free, fair and returned to the control of the people, the black market drug trade shut down and replaced with a legal regulated US owned and operated trade and our own oil and gas production up, then we can turn to the task of working on what is best at that time for changing our Federal Reserve System to something that works better. We can't change the banking system until Americans have money to deposit in a bank for periods longer than a week or two. The FairTax will increase long-term savings which provides the vehicle to change the reserve ratios in banks. Until Americans have more net expendable income with more long term savings potential, there's nothing you can do to change those ratios whether they're gold backed or not.

We have to fix the economy, borders, trade, tax system and energy supplies, then fix the banking system. When we fix the economy the way I've suggested, then Americans won't have a lot of debt and their borrowings will be much reduced. Companies will pay more debt off on time, will use cash reserves for much of their investments instead of debt, will pay down their debt they do take on much more rapidly, and individuals will do likewise. There just won't be the demand for credit as we've seen in the past 15 years. Currently, because of the way the Infernal Revenue Code taxes income, companies and people can't pay off their debts like they should be able to and they never enough cash on hand because of this abominable tax system to pay in cash or pay down their debts.

For example, a company borrows $1,000,000 for an expansion at 7% interest. It deducts its interest payments as a business expense, but can't deduct a loan principal payment as a business expense, because it's a capital item.

So in order for a company to pay off $1,000,000 debt under our existing tax system, it must earn not $1,000,000 plus interest, it must earn over $1,500,000 plus interest to pay off that debt. Our profit margins aren't high enough in order to do that. If a company earns $1,000,000 and wants to use it all to pay off its bank loan, it uses its cash of $1,000,000 gives that to bank and under our existing tax code will owe up to $400,000 additional cash in federal income tax, then it will owe another 5 to 10 % in state income tax, depending on the state. So, because of our tax system, companies must earn $1,500,000 to pay off a $1,000,000 loan and pay the tax on the income. Then they have to pay tax on the additional $500,000 they earned to pay the tax with. That's just criminal.

Under the FairTax, they pay no tax on principal payments. If a company earns $1,000,000, they are free to take all of that $1,000,000 and pay off their lender with no obligations on top of it for the US government. They don't have to wait to pay it off until they earn 1.5 times that amount which in a highly competitive economy, just isn't ever going to happen, it's why all our companies are suffocating under their debt load. Same with citizens and consumers.

The evil of the existing income-based tax code is horrendous. One trap after another to either overcharge consumers by having to over-inflate prices, squeeze wages, or eventually bankrupt the companies with tax obligations they can't possibly pay and stay in business, so they never pay down their debt, the debts accumulate, which eventually puts them in bankruptcy, out of business or sends them out of the country to an offshore location to stay alive.

The FairTax solves all these problems.



www.fairtax.org

oh man! I just spent a good ammount of time responding, and it didn't take! This sucks! Anyways Judy, I'll try again in the morning.

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

oh man! I just spent a good ammount of time responding, and it didn't take! This sucks! Anyways Judy, I'll try again in the morning.

You mean you typed a post and it wouldn't submit? What a bummer!! I'm so sorry that happened! I wonder why it wouldn't post? Are you sure it's not still in your brower somewhere? Check all your tabs and go forward and back, it might still be there. It's worth a try anyway.