Thread: Trump Goes Gun Grabber, Prompting White House Clean-Up

NRA's Loesch rips Trump's idea of seizing guns without 'due process'

Dylan Stableford Senior Editor
,Yahoo News•March 1, 2018

National Rifle Association spokeswoman Dana Loesch criticized on Thursday President Trump’s suggestion that law enforcement should seize guns from potentially dangerous people “first [and] go through due process second.”

“Due process must be respected,” Loesch said in an interview with “Fox and Friends.” “You have to harden schools and protect kids, but due process must be respected.”

During a bipartisan meeting with members of Congress on Wednesday, Trump suggested that law enforcement should have taken away the weapons used by the suspected gunman in last month’s deadly mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., long before the massacre.

The teenager, who has been charged with the 17 killings, had reportedly shown signs of mental illness and was reported to police dozens of times in the weeks and months before the killings.

“I like taking the guns early,” Trump said. “Like, in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida — he had a lot of [flags], they saw everything — you could do what you’re saying, but take the guns first, go through due process second.”

The gun lobby, which had enthusiastically supported Trump’s election and which Trump had praised in return, dismissed the president’s remarks in a statement on Wednesday night.

“Instead of punishing law-abiding gun owners for the acts of a deranged lunatic, our leaders should pass meaningful reforms that would actually prevent future tragedies,” Jennifer Baker, spokeswoman for the NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action, told the Washington Free Beacon. “They can start by fixing the broken mental health system, strengthening background checks to ensure the records of people who are prohibited from possessing firearms are in the [National Instant Criminal Background Check] system, securing our schools and preventing the dangerously mentally ill from accessing firearms.”


President Trump pauses during a meeting in the Cabinet Room of the White House on Wednesday. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster) More

Loesch echoed that sentiment on “Fox and Friends.”

“It’s not a failure of the law, it’s a failure of enforcement,” she said.

Loesch said that those who are identified as mentally unstable gun owners should have their due process.

“They go before a judge, they’re adjudicated either mentally unfit, a danger to themselves or others or, because of their own free will, they’ve voluntarily given up their rights because they’ve behaved so criminally heinously that the punishment of that is giving up their Second Amendment rights,” she said.

“But they receive due process. That’s really important to remember here.”

Loesch said the gun lobby opposes increasing the age requirement to purchase certain firearms from 18 to 21 — a policy that has been repeatedly proposed by the president since the massacre in Parkland.

“When we talk about the age restrictions, you’re not punishing the gangbanger in Chicago,” she said.

“You’re not punishing those individuals that are adjudicated unfit or are dangerous to themselves. …

You’re punishing people like I was when I was 20 years old, living on my own. You’re punishing the 19-year-old deer hunter who is just looking forward to deer season — those are the people that you are punishing here.”



During Wednesday’s meeting at the White House, Trump asked Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa. — who in 2013 co-authored with Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.V., an unsuccessful bipartisan gun control bill that would have expanded background checks — whether their bill included raising the age for gun purchases.

Toomey told the president it did not.

“You know why? Because you’re afraid of the NRA,” Trump said.

On “Fox and Friends,” Toomey called the idea that he’s afraid of the gun lobby “ridiculous.”

“I’m the guy that wrote the bill that the NRA opposed,” Toomey said. “The Manchin-Toomey legislation was strongly opposed by the NRA. They didn’t endorse me in my reelection. They haven’t given me a dime since 2010. I’m the guy that stood up to the NRA.”

The Pennsylvania Republican said he would consider increasing the age restriction for buying guns, but is “skeptical” of its usefulness.

“I don’t think that ages have been handed down by Moses — I think we can have that discussion,” Toomey said. “But I know for a fact that in Pennsylvania, most 18-, 19- and 20-year-olds buy long guns because they are hunters or they go target shooting and they are not a threat to anyone.”

Appearing on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” Thursday, Toomey said that Trump’s “due process” remark took his “breath away.”

“It doesn’t work that way in America,” he said.
On Fox Business, host Maria Bartiromo asked Trump special counselor Kellyanne Conway whether Trump was “ignoring the Constitution” with his comments.

“No, not at all,” Conway said. “The president respects the Constitution, including the Second Amendment and the 5 million or so members of the NRA who are law-abiding, peaceful gun owners.”

Conway continued: “In light of Parkland, everybody is so frustrated at the breakdown in the system. The fact that this individual was known to local law enforcement, federal law enforcement. This individual was all over social media, showing off his firearms, threatening to do exactly what he ended up doing. So with that as our backdrop — which, let’s be honest, is what spurred this conversation in the first place for the last 15 days — what the president is saying is that sometimes the processes take too long.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nras-loes...161656071.html

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Xavier Becerra
✔@AGBecerra

Today we announced that our Bureau of Firearms agents seized 28 firearms from an L.A. man prohibited from owning them. We must do all we possibly can to remove weapons from individuals who should not be in possession of them. #APPS #GunSense http://goo.gl/amUH5Q
12:39 PM - Feb 21, 2018

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Attorney General Becerra made a plea for more resources at a press conference last week, standing feet away from a cache of weapons that comprised one of the largest busts by the APPS unit to date: 28 firearms, including 13 AR-15-style rifles, and 66,000 rounds of ammunition, including tracer bullets that allow the shooter to see the path of the bullet.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/01/us/california-gun-seizure-squads/index.html

This is the kind of knee-jerk reaction I've come to expect from liberal gun-grabbers, but it's not what I would expect to hear from the President of the United States.

Originally Posted by jtdc

I agree. I can't read his mind, but I don't think he was referring to skipping due process in the long term.

Let's face it, although we supposedly "presume innocence" until proven guilty, We put people in jail, demand bail for some to get out (extortion), all in advance of a trial! The presumption is of guilt! If you can't make bail, you may remain in prison until trial. If the verdict is guilty, the court may give credit for time served. So it is presumed a punishment. However, if the verdict is Not Guilty, you get no compensation for the time you were punished for something you didn't do. If you pay bail, you are not compensated for the cost of a bond, if you opt for that, or compensated for interest or other income you forfeit from not having possession of that money.

Since this is our policy, it is certainly in keeping with that policy to confiscate weapons from someone suspect until a determination can be made. Our problem is abusing that authority for convenience.

There's still due process. You would need a search warrant to look for the guns. You would need a valid complaint and probable cause for the warrant. Just as you would for any search or seizure warrant. Trump didn't use the words "without due process", he said take the guns first, then go to court. This is actually what police do every day already with search warrants, very quick easy court procedures that they usually go through either right before they show up at the home or while some cops wait at the home or facility, other cops go get the warrant. What Trump was talking about that takes a long time is the adjudication of a mental illness determination. And he's right about that, that process can take months, years, and not end well, because a lot of behavior that ends up in murders is not mental illness at all, it's just the sociopathy associated with killers, especially mass murderers.

Originally Posted by Judy

There's still due process. You would need a search warrant to look for the guns. You would need a valid complaint and probable cause for the warrant.

I'm not sure that's true. If they chase you into your home for suspicion of some crime and arrest you, I understand that they can search the premises. They don't have to get a warrant.

Originally Posted by jtdc

I'm not sure that's true. If they chase you into your home for suspicion of some crime and arrest you, I understand that they can search the premises. They don't have to get a warrant.

Oh, good to know!!

Originally Posted by Judy

Oh, good to know!!

You were planning to run into your house, with cops on your tail, after robbing a bank?

Originally Posted by jtdc

You were planning to run into your house, with cops on your tail, after robbing a bank?

Haven't you heard? The Russians are coming, none of us know what we might need to do when that happens.

Originally Posted by Judy

Haven't you heard? The Russians are coming, none of us know what we might need to do when that happens.

Funny, there was a movie, back in the Cold War days: "The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming". It wouldn't have much meaning today, but if the Cold War reignites, maybe there would be a remake of it.

Originally Posted by jtdc

Funny, there was a movie, back in the Cold War days: "The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming". It wouldn't have much meaning today, but if the Cold War reignites, maybe there would be a remake of it.

Yes, I know that movie (it's actually where I got the line for my post). Now would be an EXCELLENT time for a remake of that movie. Or even a re-run of the old one.