Thread: Trump strikes deal with Colorado Senator on legalized marijuana

That was their choice.

Yes, now it's their choice to tell you it's legal now.

jtdc wrote (excerpt):

I'll try another. You want to save money by decriminalization of drugs. Saves money! But you want to tax the hell out of the then legalized drugs to support all the drug treatment and rehabilitation that will be, and is needed. NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY WE SPEND, YOU CANNOT UNDO MANY ADDICTIONS. To quote an old sage, Benjamin Franklin, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

The "War On Drug" is failing because it is a slogan. If they actually do war, it would not be a problem. But with politicians like Boehner and Gardner, who will do anything for a buck and votes, running our government, there is no real war. If we declare murder and robbery no longer crimes, the statistics would show a drop in crime. But things would not be better. Problems don't go away just because you say they are no longer a problem.

You're right, surrendering to a problem doesn't make that problem go away, it just allows it to snowball into a bigger problem. It may get rid of some portions of the problem but normally ends up creating bigger problems.

Judy's focus seems to be on the ruined lives of dope manufacturers, big distributors, low-level pushers, and users. Well, very seldom does someone go to prison for only using marijuana. Drug legalization activist want us to believe a lie — your typical prisoners are violent criminals, repeat offenders, traffickers, or all of the above, they are not low-level users caught with a bag, stubby or roach for personal use. Sure, if in possession during the arrest for another crime, that possession is normally added to other charges as is to be expected, but seldom does anyone go to prison for only using.

You were right when you said that those sent to prison for breaking our drug laws are going because of their choice. You break our societies laws and there has to be accountability.

It would be nice if folks that supported the legalization of marijuana or any schedule 1 drugs took a good look at the big picture and were more concerned with the lives it would ruin and less for the lives of those that prey on the weakness of their fellow man. If I'm not mistaken, Judy has in the past supported the legalization, regulating and taxing of all schedule 1 drugs, not just marijuana.

Judy focuses on the plight of those who made the choice to violate the laws. But she is only looking at one narrow set of statistics. Leftists point to the deaths and harm done with guns. Those statistics are readily available. But on the other side are the many deaths and crimes that were prevented by guns. Since they didn't occur, they are hard to document. This is much the same. We can document those who were harmed by the enforcement of the laws, but we can't document the many more who were protected by those same laws.

In a similar comparison, CPS ( Child Protective Services) or different names in different areas, protects/saves many kids. But they harm probably just as many as they save. They will not publicize those negative interactions just as Judy doesn't want to acknowleged the many who benefited from anti-drug laws.

In Joshua Tree, CA, a homeless family with several children was living in a makeshift home in the desert. Reports say the children were happy and not abused. But in steps the government. Although the county has help available, they are overloaded, so no homes were available for this family. So the CPS took the children away. The parents have been in custody and barred from seeing their children. Friends say the children were not abused. But after being separated from their parents, they will probably grow up with insecurities, especially of government. I've seen several similar incidents though the years. I've had my own run-ins with CPS and feel they destroyed my children. So I'm biased. Yet, I am not for doing away with the organization, just limiting its powers and holding it and its workers accountable for their own abuses.

MW Wrote:

Judy's focus seems to be on the ruined lives of dope manufacturers, big distributors, low-level pushers, and users. Well, very seldom does someone go to prison for only using marijuana. Drug legalization activist want us to believe a lie — your typical prisoners are violent criminals, repeat offenders, traffickers, or all of the above, they are not low-level users caught with a bag, stubby or roach for personal use. Sure, if in possession during the arrest for another crime, that possession is normally added to other charges as is to be expected, but seldom does anyone go to prison for only using.

1. Total Annual Drug Arrests In The United States By Offense Type

2016: The FBI estimated that there were 1,572,579 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2016. The FBI, for the first time in many years, did not provide a breakdown of that figure by offense type.

In an analysis of a subset of the UCR's arrest data, police agencies in the US covering an estimated 2016 population of 250,017,636 people reported a total of 1,186,810 arrests for drug law violations, of which 84.7% (1,004,762) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 15.3% (182,048) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2015: Of the 1,488,707 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2015, 83.9% (1,249,025) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 16.1% (239,682) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2014: Of the 1,561,231 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2014, 83.1% (1,297,384) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 16.9% (263,848) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2013: Of the 1,501,043 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2013, 82.3% (1,235,358) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 17.7% (265,685) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2012: Of the 1,552,432 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2012, 82.2% (1,276,099) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 17.8% (276,333) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2011: Of the 1,531,251 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2011, 81.8% (1,252,563) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 18.2% (278,687) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2010: Of the 1,638,846 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2010, 81.9% (1,342,215) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 18.1% (296,631) were for the sale or manufacture of a drug.

2007: Of the 1,841,182 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2007, 82.5% (1,518,975) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 17.5% (322,207) were for the sale or manufacture of a drug.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/crime_arrests

The truth is well over 80% of all drug charge arrests in the US are for possession, not the sale or manufacture of a drug.

Originally Posted by Judy

MW Wrote:



1. Total Annual Drug Arrests In The United States By Offense Type

I was looking for point "2."

These statistics only show arrests for "possession". They do not differentiate between pot and hard drugs. It also doesn't show convictions or how many were sentenced to prison for possession.

Originally Posted by Judy

The truth is well over 80% of all drug charge arrests in the US are for possession, not the sale or manufacture of a drug.

Again, not convictions or jail time.

PS: One pusher or manufacturer may supply 100 users. So there will logically be more users than pushers.

Originally Posted by jtdc

I was looking for point "2."

These statistics only show arrests for "possession". They do not differentiate between pot and hard drugs. It also doesn't show convictions or how many were sentenced to prison for possession.

Again, not convictions or jail time.

PS: One pusher or manufacturer may supply 100 users. So there will logically be more users than pushers.

Point 2 is in the link. Just click on it.

Obviously there are more users than pushers, so obviously most of the arrests are of users, well over 80%, and all that derives from those arrests, such as charges, convictions, incarcerations, etc. are users. So obviously, MW is full of it and telling stories that aren't true. And you agreed with him, gave him a "like", but now caught with a false tale, you're saying what I'm saying is "logical" and "obvious". Yes, it is, and the arrest statistics prove it. DUH.

Originally Posted by jtdc

I was looking for point "2."

These statistics only show arrests for "possession". They do not differentiate between pot and hard drugs. It also doesn't show convictions or how many were sentenced to prison for possession.

Again, not convictions or jail time.

PS: One pusher or manufacturer may supply 100 users. So there will logically be more users than pushers.

You're right. There is nothing there saying anyone went to prison for the exclusive use or possession for private use of marijuana. Also, the information doesn't speak to their criminal arrest record or previous drug charges. You're also right that there is no mention of marijuana. A controlled substance could be LSD or heroin.

I'd say the information provided was woefully lacking in details to support the contention that surrendering on the so-called "drug war" is the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by Judy

Point 2 is in the link. Just click on it.

Obviously there are more users than pushers, so obviously most of the arrests are of users, well over 80%, and all that derives from those arrests, such as charges, convictions, incarcerations, etc. are users. So obviously, MW is full of it and telling stories that aren't true. And you agreed with him, gave him a "like", but now caught with a false tale, you're saying what I'm saying is "logical" and "obvious". Yes, it is, and the arrest statistics prove it. DUH.

You're post didn't disprove a single one of my claims.

MW said:

very seldom does someone go to prison for only using marijuana. Drug legalization activist want us to believe a lie — your typical prisoners are violent criminals, repeat offenders, traffickers, or all of the above, they are not low-level users caught with a bag, stubby or roach for personal use. Sure, if in possession during the arrest for another crime, that possession is normally added to other charges as is to be expected, but seldom does anyone go to prison for only using.

Originally Posted by Judy

Obviously there are more users than pushers, so obviously most of the arrests are of users, well over 80%, and all that derives from those arrests, such as charges, convictions, incarcerations, etc. are users.

But that doesn't show that 80% of those in prison on drug charges are casual users.

Originally Posted by Judy

So obviously, MW is full of it and telling stories that aren't true.

I'd more accuse you of telling stories that aren't true. Your claim is that 80% of those in prison on drug charges are users. But the evidence you provided doesn't address that. It is a diversion.