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  1. #1
    MW
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    Trump's indefensible defense of Saudi Arabia

    Trump's indefensible defense of Saudi Arabia


    Bonnie Kristian

    Illustrated | AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

    November 21, 2018


    President Trump is bending over backwards to defend Saudi Arabia.

    The House of Saud, and particularly Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS), has been under fire for weeks after U.S.-based Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi was tortured and killed inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. On Tuesday, Trump continued his long defense of the Saudis by virtually shrugging the whole thing off.

    King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman vigorously deny any knowledge of the planning or execution of the murder of Mr. Khashoggi. Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event — maybe he did and maybe he didn't!

    That being said, we may never know all of the facts surrounding the murder of Mr. Jamal Khashoggi. In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They have been a great ally ... [Trump]

    This is extraordinary. It's also not the first time Trump has expressed willful oblivion toward the Saudi regime's role here. Pressed this weekend by Fox News' Chris Wallace on whether MBS lied to his face about involvement in Khashoggi's murder — the CIA reportedly says he did — Trump equivocated.

    "I don't know. You know, who can really know?" he said. Wallace pressed on: "But what if he's lying? Do you just live with it because you need him? … If Congress were to move to either try to cut off any U.S. involvement in the war in Yemen or to block any arms sales you won't go along with it?"

    Trump's response was the usual serpentine tangle, but it wound toward "yes." The U.S. has "an ally" in Saudi Arabia, he said, "and I want to stick with an ally that in many ways has been very good." Even if MBS lied about Khashoggi, even if Congress sought to end American support for the disastrous Saudi-led intervention on Yemen or cut off U.S. arms sales to Riyadh, Trump would keep America tied to the House of Saud.
    Why?

    Some of this dynamic, no doubt, is attributable to the president's confidence in his own ability to develop useful personal relationships with foreign leaders. Trump seems to envision the world stage as the hospitality or development business scaled up, so his friendship can reliably purchase mutual backscratching. This attitude is a mixed blessing, as it pushes the administration toward needed diplomatic endeavors — as with North Korea — but can also undercut negotiations by equipping Trump with a simplistic approach. (However much he "fell in love," North Korean leader Kim Jong Un isn't going to give up his nuclear arsenal over friendly feelings.)

    But the United States' strangely close relationship with Saudi Arabia is not of Trump's creation. We've been committed to Riyadh for years, maintaining the alliance through administrations from both major parties. It is not difficult to imagine, say, former President Barack Obama — originator of U.S. backing for Saudi intervention in Yemen and Riyadh's favorite arms dealer — making essentially the same move in response to MBS's lies.
    I have no illusions that the United States will only deal with "nice" nations that love liberty, justice, and democracy. In fact, as messy as they can be, I think trade and diplomacy stand the strongest chance of peacefully moving oppressive and otherwise unsavory countries toward freedom and normalcy. But that realism does not mean that cultivating this close alliance with Saudi Arabia is defensible. Khashoggi's death has forced a conversation we should have been having anyway, a conversation about how staying allied with the Saudi regime violates the values we claim without benefiting our national interest. This is fundamentally a partnership with just another murderous and oppressive Mideast dictatorship that undermines regional stability and makes us look like hypocrites in the process.

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) is among the loudest voices recognizing this multifaceted foreign policy failure and pushing Trump to serve MBS a punishment he may actually heed: ending U.S. weapons deals with Riyadh. Paul made this case at length in a speech at The American Conservative's recent foreign policy conference, highlighting both the Saudi intervention's devastating humanitarian consequences in Yemen and the Saudi regime's record of radicalization and destabilization that undermines U.S. security.

    "My main objection to this whole thing is that the war in Yemen is a tragedy, like most wars, but it's a particular tragedy because they're one of the poorest countries on the planet," Paul said, noting the famine conditions and cholera epidemic the Saudi intervention has produced. These are "things that don't happen in the modern world, really, anymore," he continued, "and so I think it is something that we should not be participating in."

    But Yemen is not the Saudi regime's only victim. "If you ask me who's the worst at spreading hatred and trying to engender terrorism around the world, it's Saudi Arabia hands down," Paul argued, listing examples of Saudi support for extremism. In Yemen specifically, the Saudi fight has fostered power vacuums in which al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), which aims to conduct 9/11-style attacks in the West, has flourished.
    Recognizing this detriment to U.S. interests, again, does not mean initiating conflict or cutting off all contact with Saudi Arabia. It means not linking America to this gruesome government. "I'm very unhappy with Saudi Arabia. I don't like what they're doing, spreading messages throughout the world," Paul said on this point. "But I wouldn't have an embargo of Saudi Arabia. I'm not for not trading with them. … Let's just don't reward them with weapons."

    Not rewarding Riyadh with weapons is a pretty simple ask — an ask with which Trump should be able and eager to comply.

    What's stopping him?

    https://theweek.com/articles/808470/...e-saudi-arabia




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  2. #2
    MW
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    “Maybe He Did And Maybe He Didn’t!”: Trump Gives Saudi Crown Prince A Pass On Khashoggi Murder; Update: Khashoggi’s Publisher Responds

    ALLAHPUNDITPosted at 3:01 pm on November 20, 2018




    You can’t fully appreciate this White House statement without reading it yourself. It’s about a major international incident involving the murder of an American-based civilian by a foreign government, with implications for diplomatic relations between the U.S. and two prominent Islamic allies…

    …and it’s written in fluent Trump-ese. Exclamation points galore. It’s basically the longest Trump tweet in history. You would think that if he had resolved to officially shrug off Khashoggi’s murder, he’d at least farm the statement out to John Bolton or Mike Pompeo to pretty it up. Nope. It reads like dictation for the most part. Which is good, frankly: If we’re going to greenlight the murder of dissidents by our Wahhabist “friends,” better that we avoid diplomatic niceties and doublespeak. The Trumpian tone of the statement is his way of taking full possession of the decision. He’s owning it.

    His logic is pure nationalism too, right down to the “America First!” kicker. (Exclamation point in the original.) As you read, bear in mind this post from last night. For all of Marco Rubio’s pro-nationalist twaddle lately, do you think he agrees that arms sales matter more than an American resident’s right not to be dismembered by a foreign power that he’s criticized? Maybe there’s a lesson here for Little Marco.

    After my heavily negotiated trip to Saudi Arabia last year, the Kingdom agreed to spend and invest $450 billion in the United States. This is a record amount of money. It will create hundreds of thousands of jobs, tremendous economic development, and much additional wealth for the United States. Of the $450 billion, $110 billion will be spent on the purchase of military equipment from Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and many other great U.S. defense contractors. If we foolishly cancel these contracts, Russia and China would be the enormous beneficiaries – and very happy to acquire all of this newfound business. It would be a wonderful gift to them directly from the United States!…

    Representatives of Saudi Arabia say that Jamal Khashoggi was an “enemy of the state” and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, but my decision is in no way based on that – this is an unacceptable and horrible crime. King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman vigorously deny any knowledge of the planning or execution of the murder of Mr. Khashoggi. Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event – maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!

    That being said, we may never know all of the facts surrounding the murder of Mr. Jamal Khashoggi. In any case, our relationship is with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. They have been a great ally in our very important fight against Iran.


    A Twitter pal made me laugh with this, even though there’s no punchline per se. It just states Trump’s views, accurately:
    Kilgore Trout@KT_So_It_Goes

    *DNA evidence exonerates central park five*

    I know they did it anyway

    *CIA concludes prince ordered journalist dismembered*

    who can say

    1,286

    1:05 PM - Nov 20, 2018
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    Who can say? The CIA thinks it can:

    The CIA has concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the assassination of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul last month, contradicting the Saudi government’s claims that he was not involved in the killing, according to people familiar with the matter.

    The CIA’s assessment, in which officials have said they have high confidence, is the most definitive to date linking Mohammed to the operation and complicates the Trump administration’s efforts to preserve its relationship with a close ally. A team of 15 Saudi agents flew to Istanbul on government aircraft in October and killed Khashoggi inside the Saudi Consulate, where he had gone to pick up documents that he needed for his planned marriage to a Turkish woman.

    In reaching its conclusions, the CIA examined multiple sources of intelligence, including a phone call that the prince’s brother Khalid bin Salman, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, had with Khashoggi, according to the people familiar with the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the intelligence. Khalid told Khashoggi, a contributing columnist to The Washington Post, that he should go to the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul to retrieve the documents and gave him assurances that it would be safe to do so.


    Trump allegedly has seen some of the evidence, but one of the lessons of Russiagate is that no amount of confidence in a conclusion by U.S. intelligence will convince him of a foreign power’s malfeasance if he’s emotionally invested in believing otherwise. He doesn’t want to believe that Russia interfered in the 2016 campaign because he fears it’ll taint his victory if he acknowledges it, so he’s been hedging about it for years. He doesn’t want to believe that Mohammed bin Salman ordered Khashoggi’s murder because it’ll cause too many headaches for the U.S.-Saudi relationship, so he’s arrived at “maybe he did and maybe he didn’t,” no matter what the CIA might think. The “deep state” isn’t going to interrupt his wishcasting when he’s wishing very hard.

    Trump’s emphasis on how much the Saudis have pledged to spend in the U.S. is especially gross in context since it frames Khashoggi’s murder as a straight-up blood-money transaction — or bribe, if you prefer. There’s nothing so immoral that it can’t be forgiven if enough money is on the line; that’s a very Trumpy attitude and he’s true to it here. I leave to you to deduce what lesson the Saudis, and not just the Saudis, might draw from it in the future when weighing whether there’ll be any diplomatic consequences from snatching people off the street and murdering them. (If I were them, I’d note well his fear about Russia and China muscling in on the U.S.-Saudi relationship and start flirting with those other powers, to see if Trump will lower his price.) Give them credit at least for understanding how Trump approaches foreign policy, as a sort of protection racket in which client states enjoy the empire’s favor to the extent they’re willing to throw money at it.

    And as for Trump’s emphasis on needing the Saudis to help check Iran (which I didn’t quote above but it’s in the statement), imagine what sort of incentives that might give Riyadh. As long as they can keep Iran contained, are the Saudis better off with a Shiite Islamist clerical regime in charge there or a more liberal, secular, nationalist regime that might nonetheless maintain regional ambitions? What would a less scary Iranian government mean to America in terms of maintaining the U.S.-Saudi relationship? The Saudis might actually be weaker and would certainly be more isolated without their “protector” in a world where Iran was less dangerous. Maybe, per Trump’s statement, they have an interest in Iran remaining Islamist.

    Here’s Mike Pompeo echoing Trump’s point: Sh*t happens in a rough world. The more you pay us, the more okay with that sh*t we are.




    CNN Politics
    @CNNPolitics

    Secretary of State Mike Pompeo speaks after Trump signals the US won’t punish Saudi crown prince over the killing of Jamal Khashoggi: “It is the President’s obligation … to ensure that we adopt policies that further America’s national security” https://cnn.it/2QcclmR

    119

    2:11 PM - Nov 20, 2018


    Update: A sharp line here from the publisher of the Washington Post, the paper that ran Khashoggi’s column: “President Trump is correct in saying the world is a very dangerous place. His surrender to this state-ordered murder will only make it more so.”
    NBC News
    @NBCNews

    · Nov 20, 2018

    Replying to @NBCNews

    "This is a long, historic commitment, and one that is absolutely vital," Sec. Pompeo says of US relationship with Saudi Arabia after President Trump declares solidarity with Saudis, despite Khashoggi murder. https://nbcnews.to/2DA3Qex





    NBC News
    @NBCNews

    BREAKING: Washington Post publisher says Pres. Trump's solidarity with Saudi Arabia after Khashoggi killing is betrayal of American values and failure of leadership, and calls for president to release evidence if there is reason to doubt CIA's conclusion. http://nbcnews.to/2DA3Qex pic.twitter.com/p9lq7fWNk1

    1,312

    3:04 PM - Nov 20, 2018
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    Update: Rubio chimes in by doing the same thing he did in the op-ed I wrote about last night, redefining nationalism so that it conveniently means all of the stuff he already believes in. Nationalism isn’t about minding our own business and helping American workers by cashing Saudi checks. It means human rights!

    Marco Rubio
    @marcorubio

    Our foreign policy must be about promoting our national interests.

    It is in our natl interest to defend human rights.

    HR violations lead to mass migration, help extremism flourish & often result in new governments hostile towards the U.S. because we supported their oppressors.

    2,908

    3:12 PM - Nov 20, 2018
    Eh, all of those criticisms could be, and are, made against interventionism too, of which Rubio’s an ardent supporter.

    Update: The interventionists are angry, and so are the anti-interventionists:

    Senator Rand Paul
    @RandPaul

    The President indicates that Saudi Arabia is the lesser two evils compared to Iran and so the US won’t punish Saudi Arabia for the brutal killing and dismemberment of a dissident journalist in their consulate. I disagree.


    Senator Rand Paul
    @RandPaul

    · Nov 20, 2018

    Replying to @RandPaul

    We should, at the very least, NOT reward Saudi Arabia with our sophisticated armaments that they in turn use to bomb civilians.



    Senator Rand Paul
    @RandPaul

    I’m pretty sure this statement is Saudi Arabia First, not America First. I’m also pretty sure John Bolton wrote it.

    8,168

    3:26 PM - Nov 20, 2018
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    Never in American history has it been clearer that a presidential statement came directly from the president himself, but Rand is cautious about attacking the populist-in-chief. So he’s scapegoating Bolton here instead.
    Update: He’s all-in.




    Josh Campbell
    @joshscampbell

    JUST IN: President Trump on the #Khashoggi murder: "It is what it is."

    862

    3:42 PM - Nov 20, 2018



    Update: Not to put too fine a point on it:
    View image on Twitter



    Committee to Protect Journalists
    @pressfreedom


    "If you boil the White House statement down to its essence, President Trump has just asserted that if you do enough business with the U.S., you are free to murder journalists. That's an appalling message to send to Saudi Arabia and the world." @Joelcpj #JusticeForJamal

    2,863

    2:24 PM - Nov 20, 2018


    https://hotair.com/archives/2018/11/20/maybe-maybe-didnt-trump-gives-saudi-crown-prince-pass-khashoggi-murder/?utm_source=hadaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign= nl&bcid=24205d9e8e2caf1aab134c21b03c9a40






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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    This is an attempt by the DemoQuacks and misguided Republicans to destroy our economy, increase threats and tensions in the Middle East and pretend to be more "moral" than Donald Trump. Won't work. Americans don't give a hoot about Khashoggi. Americans are sick and tired of being drawn into this international drama over people we have nothing to do with and events that don't concern US.

    This was a murder in Turkey on the Consulate soil of Saudi Arabia of a Saudi citizen by employees of the Saudi government. 11 have been arrested and charged with involvement in the murder, 5 of of these have been charged with capital murder and face the death penalty, under Saudi law, the law applicable to this murder under the applicable jurisdiction.

    This murder has absolutely nothing to do with the United States.
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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Gutfeld on Trump's response to Khashoggi

    By Greg Gutfeld | Fox News
    Published 5 hours ago

    Why do the media freak out whenever President Trump tells the blunt truth about a policy we were OK with before him?

    So did the prince kill Khashoggi?

    "Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't."

    That's from Trump, causing today's hair-burning media freakout. Which happens whenever Trump tells the blunt truth about a policy we were OK with before him.

    So now you’re pissed over the Saudis.

    After decades of human rights abuses, terror-enabling -- this is what gets your goat?

    According to Ben Rhodes, in 2009, when Obama went to Riyadh, the Saudi king gave each staffer a pile of jewels. And the first couple £100,000 worth of baubles which were accepted, they were sent to the national archives. -- That beats a washer-dryer on “The Price is Right.”

    But even back then we knew Saudi Arabia, they were different. But -- they were allies. And allies can suck.

    So maybe the boss's son had Khashoggi offed. Or maybe not. Which is it?

    Think hard. It's a card game.

    If you say the prince is guilty, you're committing poker suicide by folding, while holding all the best cards. Sure, playing your moral ace might please the media.But winning their approval wins America nothing. It just wastes a great opportunity.

    But hold off and say, "maybe, maybe not," and you come out ahead. And the pot you want to win impacts your country’s happiness.

    If you've spent your life playing this game, keeping your cards close and waiting, you know: America has the Saudis over a barrel. Millions of barrels, really. And in negotiations, that means you can get something big from them, that you couldn't get before.

    Like what?

    Middle East progress? A chance for peace in Palestine and Israel? The ability to influence oil prices?

    Who knows?

    For sure it'll be more than a pile of dumb jewels.

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/gutf...e-to-khashoggi
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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Exactly. It will be "far more" for sure.
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    Senior Member stoptheinvaders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post

    Here’s Mike Pompeo echoing Trump’s point: Sh*t happens in a rough world. The more you pay us, the more okay with that sh*t we are.

    Huge mistake to frame the statement in this manner, but I guess we have to give them credit for being honest.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Here’s Mike Pompeo echoing Trump’s point: Sh*t happens in a rough world. The more you pay us, the more okay with that sh*t we are.
    Those aren't Pompeo's words, that's the author's paraphrase of what Pompeo actually said.

    Rand Paul is upset about what's going on in Yemen, which is terrible, but Saudi didn't start it, Yemen started it, it's another separatist rebellion by a Yemenese tribe. Saudi supports the Yemen government and is helping them to end the insurgency. It's another Syria debacle, but one the US didn't start for a change.

    Here's some facts about the war in Yemen:

    Key facts about the war in Yemen

    The ongoing war in Yemen, which has displaced millions of people, is far more complex than a Sunni-Shia conflict.

    25 Mar 2018

    For three years, Yemen, the Arab world's poorest country, has been wracked by a bloody war between the Houthi rebels and supporters of Yemen's internationally recognised government.

    The Houthis and the Yemeni government have battled on and off since 2004, but much of the fighting was confined to the Houthis' stronghold, northern Yemen's impoverished Saada province.

    In September 2014, the Houthis took control of Yemen's capital, Sanaa, and proceeded to push southwards towards the country's second-biggest city, Aden. In response to the Houthis' advances, a coalition of Arab states launched a military campaign in 2015 to defeat the Houthis and restore Yemen's government.

    Here are some key facts about Yemen's complex war:

    Civilian casualties in Yemen are high.

    As of March 26, 2018, at least 10,000 Yemenis had been killed by the fighting, with more than 40,000 casualties overall.

    Getting accurate information on the death toll is difficult, but Save The Children estimated at least 50,000 children died in 2017, an average of 130 every day.

    The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, has estimated that Saudi-led coalition air attacks caused almost two-thirds of reported civilian deaths, while the Houthis have been accused of causing mass civilian casualties due to their siege of Taiz, Yemen's third-largest city.
    Millions of Yemenis have been displaced.

    The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), estimates that more than 3 million Yemenis have fled their homes to elsewhere in the country, and 280,000 have sought asylum in other countries, including Djibouti and Somalia. As reported by Al Jazeera, internally displaced Yemenis often must cope with a lack of food and inadequate shelter. Many Yemenis who have not fled are also suffering, especially those in need of healthcare.

    Many foreign countries are involved in Yemen's war.

    In 2015, Saudi Arabia formed a coalition of Arab states to defeat the Houthis in Yemen. The coalition includes Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Sudan and Senegal. Several of these countries have sent troops to fight on the ground in Yemen, while others have only carried out air attacks.

    The US government regularly launches air attacks on al-Qaeda and Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, also known as ISIS) targets in Yemen, and recently admitted to having deployed a small number of troops on the ground. The US, along with other western powers such as the UK and France, has also supplied the Saudi-led coalition with weapons and intelligence.

    Iran has denied arming the Houthi rebels, but the US military said it intercepted arms shipments from Iran to Yemen this March, claiming it was the third time in two months that this had occurred. Iranian officials have also suggested they may send military advisers to support the Houthis.

    Events in Yemen are viewed as part of Saudi Arabia's 'cold war' with Iran.

    Saudi Arabia shares a long, porous border with Yemen, and it fears what it sees as Iranian expansionism through its support for Shia armed groups. Commentators in the Arab Gulf States often claim that Iran now controls four Arab capitals: Baghdad, Damascus, Beirut and Sanaa.

    In Syria, Saudi-backed rebels are fighting against Bashar al-Assad's government, which is supported by Iran. Lebanon is another arena of conflict: Iran sponsors Hezbollah, the Shia militia and political movement, while Saudi Arabia supports the predominantly Sunni Future Movement.

    Tensions between Saudi Arabia and Iran were ratcheted up even further earlier this year, when Saudi Arabia executed Shia Muslim leader Nimr al-Nimr and Iranian protesters attacked the Saudi embassy in Tehran.

    Yemen's war is far more complex than a Saudi-Iranian, Sunni-Shia conflict.

    Yemen was ruled for a millennium by Zaydi Shia imams until 1962, and the Houthis were founded as a Zaydi Shia revivalist movement. However, the Houthis have not called for restoring the imamate in Yemen, and religious grievances have not been a major factor in the war. Rather, the Houthis' demands have been primarily economic and political in nature.

    In 2013, Yemen's National Dialogue Conference was launched, and was tasked with writing a new constitution and creating a federal political system. But the Houthis withdrew from the process because it left Yemen's transitional government in place. Further inflaming matters was the fact that two Houthi representatives were assassinated during the conference's proceedings.

    The government's decision to lift fuel subsidies in July 2014 angered the Yemeni public and sparked massive street protests by Houthi supporters and others, who demanded that the government step down. The Houthis proceeded to take over Sanaa in September, forcing the government to flee.

    The Houthis were assisted in their advance by former Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh, who was overthrown by protests in 2011, and his supporters.

    Yemen has long been home to an al-Qaeda franchise, regarded as one of the most dangerous branches of the organisation. Yet the armed group was able to expand its footprint in Yemen amid the chaos following the ousting of Saleh in 2011, taking control of territory in southern Yemen.

    Since the start of the war last year, al-Qaeda has launched several attacks on Houthi rebels, whom it views as infidels. In 2015, al-Qaeda took over Mukalla, a provincial capital and the fifth-largest city in Yemen. However, in April 2016, 2,000 Yemeni and Emirati troops launched a ground raid on Mukalla and drove al-Qaeda from the city.

    ISIL announced the formation of a wilaya, or state, in Yemen in December 2014. In March 2015, it claimed its first attack in Yemen: suicide bombings in two Sanaa mosques used by Zaydi Shia Muslims, which killed more than 140 people.

    Providing aid to civilians in Yemen is very difficult.

    Across Yemen, aid organisations are facing major obstacles to helping Yemenis in need of food, medicine, and other essentials. The Houthi siege of parts of the city of Taiz has prevented critical medical supplies from arriving.

    Saudi Arabia has pressured aid groups to leave rebel-controlled areas of Yemen, saying that aid workers are at risk. In January 2016, a hospital operated by Doctors Without Borders was hit by a rocket, killing four people. A bombing carried out by the Saudi-led coalition injured at least six people at a hospital run by Doctors Without Borders in October 2015.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...112342462.html
    Last edited by Judy; 11-22-2018 at 03:58 AM.
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  8. #8
    MW
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    The practice of treating lethal goods like just another product to be promoted and sold is problematic on a more fundamental level. While the United States is very concerned about its responsibility to prevent nuclear proliferation, there is no corresponding acknowledgment of the danger of filling the world up with conventional weaponry, even when, as in the case of Iraq or Somalia, U.S supplied arms later "boomerang" back to hit American troops.

    Arms manufacturers take refuge in the amorality of the bottom line-- they will sell to whatever foreign countries are willing to buy. They don't consider or worry about the global effects of their products. For them it's all about the green. It's just silly to think some of these weapons can't or won't be used against our own soldiers someday or, in some cases, that they won't be used to murder millions of innocent women and children.

    It's a very disappointing thing to see our President defending and pushing for selling weapon armament and destructive technologies to foreign powers. Yes, he does make it sound like nothing overrides the quest for financial profit!




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  9. #9
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    The United States has had a foreign military sales program for decades, since 1968, they are only sold as and when approved by the United States government by the US government, because we the people own the products, goods and systems. The United States has sold weapons to Saudi Arabia for decades. There's nothing new here, just new and improved sales to a long-standing ally in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia.
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  10. #10
    MW
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    Folks can say what the will, but doing something for decades doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. And just because it's Uncle Sam approved doesn't make it the right thing to do either.

    This is mostly about money and greed for the military-industrial complex.

    Regardless of whether it's Russia, China, or the United States doing the selling, profiting off the sale of weaponry and advanced military technologies to foreign nations is certainly not something to boast about or be proud of. Actually, in my personal opinion, it's something to be ashamed of and it's something Trump certainly shouldn't be crowing about.



    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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