Thread: Trump rejects Putin’s proposal to let Russia interrogate US citizens

Trump rejects Putin’s proposal to let Russia interrogate US citizens

PUBLISHED : Friday, 20 July, 2018, 4:33am
UPDATED : Friday, 20 July, 2018, 10:28am

US President Donald Trump rejected on Thursday a proposal by Vladimir Putin to allow Russian officials to interrogate a former US ambassador and other American citizens, amid outrage across Washington that he would even consider it.

While Trump originally called the idea an “incredible offer”, White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said he has now decided against it.

“It is a proposal that was made in sincerity by President Putin, but President Trump disagrees with it,” Sanders said.

Putin unveiled the proposal at a joint press conference with Trump on Monday following their summit meeting in Helsinki, Finland.

Asked whether he would extradite 12 Russian intelligence agents indicted in the United States last week for hacking Democratic Party computers, he said he could meet the US government “halfway”.

“We can actually permit official representatives of the United States … into the country and they will be present at this questioning” of the 12 inside Russia.

“Then we would expect that the Americans would reciprocate and they would question officials, including the officers of law enforcement and intelligence services of the United States … who have something to do with illegal actions on the territory of Russia, and we have to request the presence of our law enforcement.”

For Russia, the focus of the quid-pro-quo was questioning former US envoy to Russia Michael McFaul and 11 others in Moscow’s case against billionaire investor William Browder, the driving force behind Magnitsky Act sanctions on Russian officials passed by the US Congress.

“I think that’s an incredible offer,” Trump responded in Helsinki.

McFaul expressed outrage on Wednesday when Sanders said Trump was “going to meet with his team” to consider Putin’s proposal.

But on Thursday Sanders made clear a deal with Putin was not in the cards.

“Hopefully President Putin will have the 12 identified Russians come to the United States to prove their innocence or guilt,” said Sanders.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/unit...te-unanimously

It shows how uninformed so many of our people in high positions are. The way it works under the Treaty is if our people want to interview Russians for crimes, our interviewers go to Russia and interview them to glean as much information as possible. You can't make arrests, you can't kidnap, you can just take advantage of the Treaty rights to question and learn things. Conversely, Russia can use their rights to come to the United States and interview our people for crimes and so forth. At each set of interviews, the Russian officials are present during the interviews of their citizens by Americans in Russia and American officials are present during the interviews of our citizens by the Russians in the United States.

It's like what's done in civil litigation all across our country and the world and they're called depositions which are a part of the discovery process of a legitimate case.

So Putin's offer was incredible like Trump said. He's allowing 12 of his "intelligence officers" to be interviewed by US prosecutors. But of course, Russia has some concerns with crimes in his country by Americans so wanted the ability to interview our people on the same basis. Since neither country is going to extradite their people to the other for actual prosecutions, this is a way to seek the truth without criminal prosecutions.

It's interesting that Putin isn't worried about it while we are. I wonder why? It may be about the Magnitsky Act and what was actually behind that. It all weaves back to that British billionaire named Bill Browder who was also a Russian Oligarch for 10 years. But things went south for him when he cheated on his Russian taxes, laundered the money out of Russia, fled the country, and was later convicted of tax evasion in Russia absentia, was banned from Russia after his role in lobbying the US for the Magnitsky Act, because they considered him a threat to their national security.

The question I've had for over a year or so since I first learned about this, is why would the US Congress and the Obama Administration involve our country in a law like the Magnitsky Act for a British Billionaire? It just makes no sense at all. Did some of them like the Ambassador invest in this company, Hermitage Capital? Did they receive political donations or bribes from him? How was any of this in our country's best interest? I just don't get it.

Originally Posted by Judy

It shows how uninformed so many of our people in high positions are.

It goes beyond that. I often read or listen to an argument on TV or even on this forum. I may find one person's arguments convincing. They someone else points out the holes in their arguments, and I change my mind.

It is the same for President Trump that, what seems to be an “incredible offer”, upon reflection isn't so incredible after all. But our press can't deal with thinking people changing their mind!

Originally Posted by Judy

The question I've had for over a year or so since I first learned about this, is why would the US Congress and the Obama Administration involve our country in a law like the Magnitsky Act for a British Billionaire? It just makes no sense at all.

He was born an American citizen! And that Maginsky Act was protection for other Americans. It wasn't specifically for him, even though it would benefit him.

I have watched him on last night's news and when the interviewer identified him as an American, he immediately corrected them that he is a British citizen. So I am not seeing anything suspicious here.

He is a fugitive of Russia, primarily for tax evasion. We and other countries apparently do not recognize Russia's claim. And since we will not be in a position to turn him over to Russia, and Britain doesn't not seem willing to turn him over to the Russians, there is no purpose to a moot trial for him. And the Russians that we want to question may give leads to Americans who might be prosecuted, but they effectively have immunity. So that would also be a moot trial.

Originally Posted by jtdc

It goes beyond that. I often read or listen to an argument on TV or even on this forum. I may find one person's arguments convincing. They someone else points out the holes in their arguments, and I change my mind.

It is the same for President Trump that, what seems to be an “incredible offer”, upon reflection isn't so incredible after all. But our press can't deal with thinking people changing their mind!

He was born an American citizen! And that Maginsky Act was protection for other Americans. It wasn't specifically for him, even though it would benefit him.

I have watched him on last night's news and when the interviewer identified him as an American, he immediately corrected them that he is a British citizen. So I am not seeing anything suspicious here.

He is a fugitive of Russia, primarily for tax evasion. We and other countries apparently do not recognize Russia's claim. And since we will not be in a position to turn him over to Russia, and Britain doesn't not seem willing to turn him over to the Russians, there is no purpose to a moot trial for him. And the Russians that we want to question may give leads to Americans who might be prosecuted, but they effectively have immunity. So that would also be a moot trial.

No, no, no. The Magnitsky Act has absolutely nothing to do with Americans. It doesn't even have anything to do with Bill Browder. It has to do with freezing Russian assets in the signing country. US, UK and Canada passed the Magnitsky Act which was lobbied by Bill Browder who has a huge multi-billion dollar Hermitage Capital Management company in the UK. It freezes Russian investments in his company. He started the company in Russia, so most of his assets are Russian investments. When he got caught cheating on income tax he fled Russia with the money and went home to the UK. He wanted the Magnitsky Act to protect his fund from the Russians confiscating it for tax evasion.

Browder fled, leaving his Russian accountant to be arrested for the tax evasion and put in prison. Browder claims the accountant was beaten to death, he wasn't. Magnitsky died from natural causes. An international group of physicians examined the body following his death and they confirmed he died from serious medical conditions complicated by poor medical care while he was in prison.

I saw him interviewed on Fox News 3 or 4 days ago and Browder called himself an American, Fox News is the one who after the interview clarified that Browder is actually a British Citizen, having renounced his US citizenship to avoid US income taxes. I already knew it because I'd researched this whole situation over a year ago. So what does Bill Browder have to do with this? He's not an American, he's not part of our country, and hasn't been since 1998. Did Russia think he was an American citizen? Is that why they had him on the list of people they wanted the Americans to schedule for an "interview"? Well, they know now if they didn't know before. It's all over the news now thanks to Fox News. Maybe they thought he kept his US citizen when he became a British citizen and was a dual citizen. Well, now the Russians know the whole deal and that he is not a dual citizen, at least not with the US. Maybe Browder has finagled a fake US Passport.

No, on the "moot trial". Browder is a convicted felon of Russia, he's already been convicted in a trial in Russia by absentia, years ago. The Russians don't want to interview Browder through this process to do anything to him except interview him along with the other people like McFaul and the American intelligence officers who Russia believes conspired with Browder to rip off the Russians and help him flee Russia to the UK. Russia's only goal at this point is to use this process to get the truth out as they see it about the tax scam Browder was playing in Russia and convince the US, UK and Canada that the Magnitsky Act is unfair and without cause based on the Sergei Magnitsky story Browder tells.

John McCain is who Browder got to sponsor the bill, the Magnistky Act. The UK wouldn't do it unless the Americans did it first. We did it, then UK did it and then Canada did it. Billy is a busy boy.

The fact of the matter is that this was a totally domestic affair in Russia, had absolutely nothing to with the United States, at all. No Americans, no American money, no American laws, no American high rights issues ... nothing American was involved in this tax evasion and fraud case in Russia involving Bill Browder, Hermitage Capital Management, or Sergei Magnitsky, so please tell me why our Ambassador was involved, our "intelligence officers" were involved, and our Congress passes this stupid bill, creating a huge bone between the US and Russia over nothing that impacts or affects or has anything to do with the United States, any American or any American law when we here at ALIPAC can't even get 1 simple immigration bill through our own Congress to protect American jobs, American citizens and American taxpayers, yet the Magnitsky Act sails through but does nothing for US and has nothing to do with US?

Makes no sense at all to me, so I totally understand why Russia wants to what went on and why we passed this legislation against them, and frankly, they should know and we as Americans should know. Maybe the Russians already know and were pushing this interview process under our own Treaty with Russia, so Americans would know.

There is no extradition treaty with Russia, so he could hide out here forever if we let him. I don't know about the UK or Canada, whether they have an extradition treaty with Russia or not, but apparently not. But he could only be in our country on a visa.

No, none of the Americans have immunity, but it doesn't matter, we would never extradite them to Russia for a trial just as Russia will never extradite their people to the United States for a trial.

If we believe we have the sovereign right to conduct our internal affairs the way we want to, especially on these white collar crimes like tax evasion, then so does Russia and we shouldn't interfere with that or aid people trying to escape them, right?

So why did we??!! It's just the craziest thing in the world.

Originally Posted by Judy

No, no, no. The Magnitsky Act has absolutely nothing to do with Americans. It doesn't even have anything to do with Bill Browder. It has to do with freezing Russian assets in the signing country. US, UK and Canada passed the Magnitsky Act which was lobbied by Bill Browder who has a huge multi-billion dollar Hermitage Capital Management company in the UK. It freezes Russian investments in his company. He started the company in Russia, so most of his assets are Russian investments. When he got caught cheating on income tax he fled Russia with the money and went home to the UK. He wanted the Magnitsky Act to protect his fund from the Russians confiscating it for tax evasion.

That is their loss by not entering extradition agreements among others.

Originally Posted by Judy

Browder claims the accountant was beaten to death, he wasn't. Magnitsky died from natural causes.

Because of neglect being in their prison? According to Wikipedia "While in prison, Magnitsky developed gall stones, pancreatitis and calculous cholecystitis and was refused medical treatment for months. After almost a year of imprisonment, he was beaten to death while in custody."

Originally Posted by Judy

I saw him interviewed on Fox News 3 or 4 days ago and Browder called himself an American, Fox News is the one who after the interview clarified that Browder is actually a British Citizen, having renounced his US citizenship to avoid US income taxes. I already knew it because I'd researched this whole situation over a year ago.

I was specifically looking for that because I had just read what you said. Perhaps someone warned him in the interim between when you saw him interviewed and when I saw him interviewed!

Originally Posted by Judy

So what does Bill Browder have to do with this? He's not an American, he's not part of our country, and hasn't been since 1998. Did Russia think he was an American citizen? Is that why they had him on the list of people they wanted the Americans to schedule for an "interview"?

I thought I explained that. The Russians wanted to interview Americans about him. They want to inconvenience Americans gathering information about a guy they can't get, much like they would let us interview 12 spies who we could not be allowed to bring to justice!

Originally Posted by Judy

The Russians don't want to interview Browder through this process to do anything to him except interview him along with the other people like McFaul and the American intelligence officers who Russia believes conspired with Browder to rip off the Russians and help him flee Russia to the UK. Russia's only goal at this point is to use this process to get the truth out as they see it about the tax scam Browder was playing in Russia and convince the US, UK and Canada that the Magnitsky Act is unfair and without cause based on the Sergei Magnitsky story Browder tells.

Or they are looking for an opportunity to question known American Intelligence people, which is crafty! As for the Act, it applies generically allows the US Government to sanction foreign government officials implicated in human rights abuses anywhere in the world.

Originally Posted by Judy

The fact of the matter is that this was a totally domestic affair in Russia, had absolutely nothing to with the United States, at all. No Americans, no American money, no American laws, no American high rights issues ... nothing American was involved in this tax evasion and fraud case in Russia involving Bill Browder, Hermitage Capital Management, or Sergei Magnitsky, so please tell me why our Ambassador was involved, our "intelligence officers" were involved, and our Congress passes this stupid bill

America is a goodhearted country that looks out for the abused wherever they are!

Originally Posted by Judy

creating a huge bone between the US and Russia over nothing that impacts or affects or has anything to do with the United States, any American or any American law when we here at ALIPAC can't even get 1 simple immigration bill through our own Congress to protect American jobs, American citizens and American taxpayers, yet the Magnitsky Act sails through but does nothing for US and has nothing to do with US?

So your bent is that you are jealous that Bill Browder got action out of Congress and you can't. Well you have to look at the fact that we had Obama in the White House then, and he cared more about the rest of the world than the Americans.

Originally Posted by Judy

Makes no sense at all to me

I guess you haven't learned how the leftist mind works!

America is a goodhearted country that looks out for the abused wherever they are!

No we don't, nor should we.