Thread: Website Set up for IMPEACHMENT VOTES

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

Originally Posted by JZ

Another reason President Bush should be impeached is he, Breached the Geneva Convention and tortured people to death in Abu Ghraib prison.

#1......your proof please?

#2......And are the islamic maniacs, void of a nation's uniform, upholding the GENEVA CONVENTIONS, sir?

#1. See page 7.

#2. Which nations would you consider “Islamic maniacs”? A better question would be why does President Bush fund Islamic countries with Foreign Aid? If these countries hate us and disregard the worlds laws. Then why does President Bush give Foreign Aid to Iran who has publically hated us for more than 20 years. Bush has given Iran Foreign Aid of about $70 million dollars a year since he’s been in office. In the New Budget Bush has INCREASED the amount of Foreign Aid to the Government of Iran to $75 million dollars.

Why is Mr. Bush funding these so called, “Islamic maniacs”? Bush has funded them since the time he took office with the Taxpayers money! Here is a list of ‘SOME’ of the countries that receive taxpayers hard earned money in the form of Foreign and Military Aid!

______________________________

Top Recipients of Developmental Assistance:

Indonesia $61 million
Ethiopia $40 million
Bangladesh $40
Bolivia $39 million
______________________________

President Bush’s FY2008 Budget
Top Recipients of Military Aid:

Israel $2.4 billion
Egypt $1.3 billion
Pakistan $382 billion
Iraq $298 million
Jordan $263 million
Sudan $245 million
_______________________________

President Bush's FY2008 Budget
Top Reciepients of the Economic Support Fund:

Afghanistan $693 million
Egypt $415 million
Pakistan $382 million
Iraq $298 million
Jordon $263 million
Sudan $245 million

________________________________

President Bush’s FY2008 Budget Milennium Challenge Corporation:

FY2008 Request: $3 billion
FY2008 Request: $1.1 billion

________________________________

Source: C-Span and State Department


Proposed Budget for Foreign Aid for 2008

http://link.toolbot.com/c-span.org/60656

Washington Journal
Monday, February 12, 2007
(30 minute video)

Carol Lancaster, Georgetown University Associate Professor

Proposed Budget for Foreign Aid
is 22 - 24 Billion
Last year was 18 Billion

Presidents Bush’s FY 2008 Budget

Total FY2008 Request: 2.9 trillion
Request for Foreign Aid: 20.3 billion

Source: State Department

75 million for Foreign Aid to the Government of Iran.

Originally Posted by JZ

#1. See page 7.

#2. Which nations would you consider “Islamic maniacs”? A better question would be why does President Bush fund Islamic countries with Foreign Aid? If these countries hate us and disregard the worlds laws. Then why does President Bush give Foreign Aid to Iran who has publically hated us for more than 20 years. Bush has given Iran Foreign Aid of about $70 million dollars a year since he’s been in office. In the New Budget Bush has INCREASED the amount of Foreign Aid to the Government of Iran to $75 million dollars.

Why is Mr. Bush funding these so called, “Islamic maniacs”? Bush has funded them since the time he took office with the Taxpayers money! Here is a list of ‘SOME’ of the countries that receive taxpayers hard earned money in the form of Foreign and Military Aid!

______________________________

Top Recipients of Developmental Assistance:

Indonesia $61 million
Ethiopia $40 million
Bangladesh $40
Bolivia $39 million
______________________________

President Bush’s FY2008 Budget
Top Recipients of Military Aid:

Israel $2.4 billion
Egypt $1.3 billion
Pakistan $382 billion
Iraq $298 million
Jordan $263 million
Sudan $245 million
_______________________________

President Bush's FY2008 Budget
Top Reciepients of the Economic Support Fund:

Afghanistan $693 million
Egypt $415 million
Pakistan $382 million
Iraq $298 million
Jordon $263 million
Sudan $245 million

________________________________

President Bush’s FY2008 Budget Milennium Challenge Corporation:

FY2008 Request: $3 billion
FY2008 Request: $1.1 billion

________________________________

Source: C-Span and State Department


Proposed Budget for Foreign Aid for 2008

http://link.toolbot.com/c-span.org/60656

Washington Journal
Monday, February 12, 2007
(30 minute video)

Carol Lancaster, Georgetown University Associate Professor

Proposed Budget for Foreign Aid
is 22 - 24 Billion
Last year was 18 Billion

Presidents Bush’s FY 2008 Budget

Total FY2008 Request: 2.9 trillion
Request for Foreign Aid: 20.3 billion

Source: State Department

75 million for Foreign Aid to the Government of Iran.

Well, "JZ" I realize that your response was to another poster, but since you were afraid to rebut my FACTUAL posts on the subject, I thought I would go ahead and rip this response to shreds.

1. You not only failed to provide evidence of a violation of the Geneva Conventions on page 7, you failed to demonstrate any understanding of the nature or intent of the Geneva Conventions. If you have trouble grasping that, read MY POSTS on page 7 relative to the GC.

2. You throw out the proverbial red herring by asking, "Which nations would you consider “Islamic maniacs”?" But of course you know that the individuals being detained do not represent "nations" and are regulars of no army. So "nations" don't have a damned thing to do with the terrorist detainees whose rights you are so concerned about. Clearly, the "Islamic maniacs" referenced are, quite simply, ISLAMIC MANIACS. They're the same mangy dogs who burned and then rippd apart some of OUR OWN people on an Iraqi bridge and then danced around like it was a backyard barbecue. They're the scum-sucking degenerates who load up car bombs and run them into civilian markets. They're the sons of swine whose IEDs kill not only the intended targets - our fellow countrymen fighting in Iraq - but also innocent Iraqi women and children. They're the sons of whores who behead their own brethren for the supreme offense of trimming their beards and stone their women for reading books. Are you a little clearer on WHICH Islamic maniacs we're referring to?

JZ
a better question would be
"why did so many administrations on both sides of the aisle FUND the islamic maniacs?"

Again, JZ
the geneva conventions have nothing to do with terrorists who are not representing a given 'nation' and are not in uniform.

And still, where is the proof of this so-called slaughter?

Funding has nothing to do with your original statement.

853475 :
the number of people
who have already voted
in the referendum
to Impeach Bush!
(figure updated daily)

It never ceases to amaze me that the “Bush Lovers” who claim to know so much and will defend Bush43 to their dying day. That they seem to over look certain well publicized facts. I suppose they would think differently if they weren't on the Bush Administrations Payroll or the La Raza Payroll.

These well informed individuals seem to be the utmost authority on just about everything except when it comes to Bush, they seem to have a memory lapse.

The orders for torture came from the top and were carried out by the troops in Abu Ghraib. Then there was a lame cover up by the Bush Administration.

April 2005

MANADEL AL-JAMADI died an excruciating death at the hands of U.S. torturers at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

Al-Jamadi’s death was made public last year, when the Abu Ghraib torture scandal broke--and photos surfaced of smiling U.S. soldiers posing with his corpse.

But last month, the horror of his death became clear when media reports revealed that al-Jamadi died under CIA interrogation in a prison shower room--where he was suspended by his wrists, with his hands cuffed behind his back. This torture practice is called a “Palestinian hanging”--the name comes from Israeli forces, who use it against Palestinians.

The revelations about al-Jamadi’s death put renewed attention on the use of torture by the U.S. forces --or by other countries that Washington gets to do the dirty work.

According to statements from Abu Ghraib prison guards, al-Jamadi was brought to Abu Ghraib naked below the waist, with a plastic bag covering his head. Guards then dressed him in an orange jumpsuit, slapped on metal handcuffs and took him to the shower room, where he was shackled backwards to a barred window in the torture position.

After about a half-hour of “questioning” by a CIA interrogator, guards were called in to reposition al-Jamadi. Army guard Sgt. Jeffery Frost told investigators that al-Jamadi’s arms were stretched so far that he was surprised they “didn't pop out of their sockets.”

When Frost and other guards released the shackles and lowered al-Jamadi, blood gushed from his mouth “as if a faucet had been turned on.”

When the military and the CIA want to use even more violent interrogation “techniques” that are against U.S. law, they “outsource” the job. Under the process known as “extraordinary rendition,” the U.S. works with countries like Saudi Arabia or Syria--notorious for using abuse and torture--to capture or send detainees abroad for interrogation or prosecution.

Rendition is one of the U.S. government’s dirty secrets--carried out increasingly under the Clinton administration, and more commonly still under Bush. Estimates of the number of U.S.-held prisoners transferred to nations that use torture stand at 150.

One victim is Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, a U.S. citizen accused of plotting with al-Qaeda to assassinate George Bush. Abu Ali was arrested by Saudi officials--reportedly with the knowledge of U.S. officials--in a crackdown after bombings in Riyadh in 2003. But he wasn’t charged with a crime during the 20 months he was imprisoned in Saudi Arabia.

Instead, he was whipped--sometimes for three straight days--kept in solitary confinement for months, blindfolded and denied food, his family members recently told the New York Times. Now, the Justice Department has brought Abu Ali to the U.S. and charged him with giving “material aid” to terrorists--for supposedly using money from “terrorist” associates to buy a laptop computer and books.

There won’t be any apologies from the Bush administration for its use of torture--whether by U.S. forces or their surrogates in other countries. John Radsan, a former CIA lawyer, recently explained to the New Yorker: “As a society, we haven’t figured out what the rough rules are yet. There are hardly any rules for illegal enemy combatants. It’s the law of the jungle. And right now, we happen to be the strongest animal.”

The Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Mar16.html

According to an Army report obtained by The Washington Post, 208 abuse cases were reported to have occurred between the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March 2003 and May 2004, when the Abu Ghraib abuses made international news. The reported abuse cases peaked in April 2004, when there were 25 cases, including four deaths. The numbers fell consistently through December, when the Army learned of six abuse cases. The Army data are complete through the end of 2004.

Maj. Gen. Donald J. Ryder, the Army's provost marshal general and head of its criminal investigation command, reported last month that 308 detainee abuse cases have come under investigation, with 201 of them closed. Through Feb. 11, the Army had investigated 68 detainee deaths, 24 of them for possible criminal homicide charges.

Originally Posted by JZ

It never ceases to amaze me that the “Bush Lovers” who claim to know so much and will defend Bush43 to their dying day. That they seem to over look certain well publicized facts. I suppose they would think differently if they weren't on the Bush Administrations Payroll or the La Raza Payroll.

These well informed individuals seem to be the utmost authority on just about everything except when it comes to Bush, they seem to have a memory lapse.

The orders for torture came from the top and were carried out by the troops in Abu Ghraib. Then there was a lame cover up by the Bush Administration.

April 2005

MANADEL AL-JAMADI died an excruciating death at the hands of U.S. torturers at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

Al-Jamadi’s death was made public last year, when the Abu Ghraib torture scandal broke--and photos surfaced of smiling U.S. soldiers posing with his corpse.

But last month, the horror of his death became clear when media reports revealed that al-Jamadi died under CIA interrogation in a prison shower room--where he was suspended by his wrists, with his hands cuffed behind his back. This torture practice is called a “Palestinian hanging”--the name comes from Israeli forces, who use it against Palestinians.

The revelations about al-Jamadi’s death put renewed attention on the use of torture by the U.S. forces --or by other countries that Washington gets to do the dirty work.

According to statements from Abu Ghraib prison guards, al-Jamadi was brought to Abu Ghraib naked below the waist, with a plastic bag covering his head. Guards then dressed him in an orange jumpsuit, slapped on metal handcuffs and took him to the shower room, where he was shackled backwards to a barred window in the torture position.

After about a half-hour of “questioning” by a CIA interrogator, guards were called in to reposition al-Jamadi. Army guard Sgt. Jeffery Frost told investigators that al-Jamadi’s arms were stretched so far that he was surprised they “didn't pop out of their sockets.”

When Frost and other guards released the shackles and lowered al-Jamadi, blood gushed from his mouth “as if a faucet had been turned on.”

When the military and the CIA want to use even more violent interrogation “techniques” that are against U.S. law, they “outsource” the job. Under the process known as “extraordinary rendition,” the U.S. works with countries like Saudi Arabia or Syria--notorious for using abuse and torture--to capture or send detainees abroad for interrogation or prosecution.

Rendition is one of the U.S. government’s dirty secrets--carried out increasingly under the Clinton administration, and more commonly still under Bush. Estimates of the number of U.S.-held prisoners transferred to nations that use torture stand at 150.

One victim is Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, a U.S. citizen accused of plotting with al-Qaeda to assassinate George Bush. Abu Ali was arrested by Saudi officials--reportedly with the knowledge of U.S. officials--in a crackdown after bombings in Riyadh in 2003. But he wasn’t charged with a crime during the 20 months he was imprisoned in Saudi Arabia.

Instead, he was whipped--sometimes for three straight days--kept in solitary confinement for months, blindfolded and denied food, his family members recently told the New York Times. Now, the Justice Department has brought Abu Ali to the U.S. and charged him with giving “material aid” to terrorists--for supposedly using money from “terrorist” associates to buy a laptop computer and books.

There won’t be any apologies from the Bush administration for its use of torture--whether by U.S. forces or their surrogates in other countries. John Radsan, a former CIA lawyer, recently explained to the New Yorker: “As a society, we haven’t figured out what the rough rules are yet. There are hardly any rules for illegal enemy combatants. It’s the law of the jungle. And right now, we happen to be the strongest animal.”

1. You need to try to stick to the facts rather than trying to color the discussion with false and inflammatory rhetoric. Neither I nor anyone else I can think of here is a "Bush lover." Kindly refrain from the namecalling and try to answer the questions that are put to you.

2. NOTHING in your "rebuttal" addresses the key issue, which is whether the Geneva Conventions apply outside the case of army regulars from a specific nation. In other words, they do not apply to terrorists and they SPECIFICALLY exclude members of an internal insurrection.

If the shoe fits wear it.

Originally Posted by JZ

If the shoe fits wear it.

And if the shoe does not fit, you need to stop hurling it at the heads of those to whom it does not belong.

But your inability to provide a meaningful rebuttal is duly noted.

If torture doesn't apply to The United States and treatment of prisoners, why are U.S. military people in prison for torturing Abu Ghraib prisoners?

It's always a wonderful day in "Bushbaby Land!"

Army Report:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/na ... -25-04.pdf


The Washington Post

The Chronology of Abu Ghraib

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/wo ... 050904.htm