Thread: I AM AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT...

Nah Cheyennewoman, I'm still here. But unlike lonely people like secondamendsis who would rather say korny jokes that nobody laughs at, I have work, and I have college to work on instead of looking at this glassed box 24 hours a day to bash illegal immigrants.

I got to say though, it is alot of fun sometimes just listening to the justifications of some people to deport illegal immigrants. But, as you well know, our opinions are worlds apart.


P.S. My opinion is right and yours is wrong :P

Originally Posted by hak51

CrocketsGhost

This time you borderline with decency in your twisting my arguments

Again. your premise is insensible

If calling me names could help your arguments.

[quotedagjj6g]We don't have skilled laborers coming here illegally, nor is anyone complaining about them at the moment.

We have illegal skilled labor problem as well. Most of so called overstayed visas from Europe, India and many other countries are in this category. As newpilgrimfamily, they mix better and are less noticeable.

So your "sensible" policy would, if it began by granting citizenship to those illegals already here, pretty much shore up any imagined unskilled labor shortage overnight. That means that when we "sensibly" began to turn away the unskilled laborers trying to enter from south of the border, they would just resume their illegal immigration.

Were did you get this idea? I am for allowing to work here legally for those foreigners who can find employment here. After five years they would be able to get a green card, and according to the current law they would need to wait additional 5 years to be eligible for citizenship.

You missed a simple fact that if employers could get easily legally all the workers they want, there would be no demand for illegal immigrants. If some would come illegally, they would be unemployed, so they would go back home soon. Only employer with obvious criminal intention, like breaking the labor or tax laws would employ them.[/quotedagjj6g]
First, I did not call you names. I correctly characterized your demonstrably insenseible argument as insensible. The defense against charges of slander is truth.

Your argument CONTINUES to be insensible, because what you first characterize as a "sensible" policy that would seek to allow into the country such immigrants as were needed to fill the labor demand now appears to be an open-door policy. Which is it?

Now, you have intentionally skipped over the key element of my commentary, which was the glaring flaw in your premise: That if employers could hire all the labor they needed there would be no more illegal immigration. That is ludicrous. Try unplugging your ear and putting some Visine in your eyes, then reading the following out loud to yourself so that it does not elude you again:

While you pretend that the issue is strictly a matter of a labor void being filled, I have correctly pointed out that many immigrants do not come here for the work, but rather for the BENEFITS. whether they are employed or not, they can receive welfare, foodstamps, etc. Heck, for many of them, living under an overpass in an American city is better than living in the corrugated metal shacks they currently live in. So, as I said, your argument fails because it does not account for all of the other variables. Heck, it doesn't appear to account for ANY other variables other than what you think you know about the labor market.

Furthermore, you appear to have again switched your premise. When you referred to you "sensible" plan above, you said:

My point is that with more realistic immigration laws, more people would be allowed to come here legally. We would have better control over who is admitted.

Well, are we to have control over who comes here or not? If so, then when the market for minimum wage unskilled labor dries up, the minimum wage unskilled laborers will be stopped at the border. Is this correct or not? (Of course it is!) Those are also the very sort of people who have the highest interest in obtaining free services available here in America, WHETHER THEY HAVE JOBS HERE OR NOT. Understand? (That is not a rhetorical question. I want you to acknowledge that you understand this elementary point before proceeding with any more of your nonsense!)

It logically follows that there is a point at which the labor market in a nation with an unemployment rate already at about 5% (currently) in a workforce of between 150-200 million is satiated that will occur LONG before the billion or so people who want to come here actually get in. It also follows that the higher-paying jobs requiring skills or degrees will take longer to fill than those with basically no requirements other than a strong back or a pulse. So the supply greatly exceeds the demand as far as the number of people wanting to enter the country versus those who may be gainfully employed in the country, particularly with regard to the unskilled laborers who currently constitute the lion's share of the problem. What then?

Do we not begin turning away those for whom we have no work? If so, what keeps them from resuming their illegal immigration? As I have pointed out, there are plenty of goodies over here other than work which attract them.

If we do not turn them away, yet we have no work for them, do they not end up burdening us on our welfare rolls and using up precious resources set aside for actual Americans? Do we raise taxes to pay for them, thereby placing the brakes on a fragile economy and resulting in even less available jobs?

These are all questions you have not either asked or answered. As a matter of fact, you have steadfastly dodged and refused to confront these questions. THAT is why I believe that you are a propagandist or a troll and THAT is why I continue to call your tripe "insensible."

Originally Posted by chicano

Nah Cheyennewoman, I'm still here. But unlike lonely people like secondamendsis who would rather say korny jokes that nobody laughs at, I have work, and I have college to work on instead of looking at this glassed box 24 hours a day to bash illegal immigrants.

I got to say though, it is alot of fun sometimes just listening to the justifications of some people to deport illegal immigrants. But, as you well know, our opinions are worlds apart.


P.S. My opinion is right and yours is wrong :P

That they broke our laws is all the reason we need to deport them. We don't need "justifications" for upholding our law and our sovereignty, little man.

Originally Posted by chicano

Nah Cheyennewoman, I'm still here. But unlike lonely people like secondamendsis who would rather say korny jokes that nobody laughs at, I have work, and I have college to work on instead of looking at this glassed box 24 hours a day to bash illegal immigrants.

I got to say though, it is alot of fun sometimes just listening to the justifications of some people to deport illegal immigrants. But, as you well know, our opinions are worlds apart.


P.S. My opinion is right and yours is wrong :P

You know, chicano, I feel very sorry for you. You REALLY believe the world is flat (or in this case that illegals should get a free pass), don't you? My God, what an insulated world you've lived in.

You said you're in college - have you ever read Neitsche who said:

"The greatest disservice we do to a young man is to teach him to respect more those who think the same, rather than those who think differently".

I may not have the quote exactly right, but I'm sure you get the point.

Opinions are like fingers, everybody has at least ten. And most of them aren't worth the paper they're written on. Emotionalism is not an answer to logic. Prove to me (in a factual way) that what you propose is true

Cheyenne, go back to any of my posts and tell me one thing I have said that is a lie. You know, and all you know that the reason I am being put in a "troll poll" (which by the way, made me laugh so hard my sleepiness shook right off) is because this website is based on the "either you are with me or against me" philosophy.

TIME AFTER TIME I have consistantly stated that I agree on our need to secure our border because of the legitimate problems caused by illegal immigration. ( Not all of what is posted is legitimate.) But because I show sympathy to those who are exact like me in all but one way, I am a troll.

So funny, and yet so sad.

Originally Posted by chicano

Cheyenne, go back to any of my posts and tell me one thing I have said that is a lie. You know, and all you know that the reason I am being put in a "troll poll" (which by the way, made me laugh so hard my sleepiness shook right off) is because this website is based on the "either you are with me or against me" philosophy.

TIME AFTER TIME I have consistantly stated that I agree on our need to secure our border because of the legitimate problems caused by illegal immigration. ( Not all of what is posted is legitimate.) But because I show sympathy to those who are exact like me in all but one way, I am a troll.

So funny, and yet so sad.

Young man, I have read all your posts - you think stated that being in this country is a "misdemeanor". It is not- it is a felony. Someone posted all the fines/penalties associated with illegal immigration.

You claim (effectively) that children shouldn't be punished for the sins of their parents. Many people have refuted that statement on this board, yet you've chosen to basically ignore them.

I have asked you one thing - and that is to factually prove to me that illegal immigration should not be punished by the law of the land - that's all!

Originally Posted by chicano

Cheyenne, go back to any of my posts and tell me one thing I have said that is a lie. You know, and all you know that the reason I am being put in a "troll poll" (which by the way, made me laugh so hard my sleepiness shook right off) is because this website is based on the "either you are with me or against me" philosophy.

TIME AFTER TIME I have consistantly stated that I agree on our need to secure our border because of the legitimate problems caused by illegal immigration. ( Not all of what is posted is legitimate.) But because I show sympathy to those who are exact like me in all but one way, I am a troll.

So funny, and yet so sad.

You are put in a troll poll because of your clear intent. You do not acknowledge the points made by other posters, but merely repeat your repeatedly discredited arguments and toss up straw men such as claims of racism or "hate". I don't think, for example, that you answered any of my rebuttals to your nonsense. That's generally the mark of a troll. Honest posters seek honest discussion and address the points made by others or defend the rebuttals of their own lines of reasoning. Trolls just keep repeating themselves as though repetition enhances the flavor of their insipid offerings.

CrocketsGhost

You say:

While you pretend that the issue is strictly a matter of a labor void being filled, I have correctly pointed out that many immigrants do not come here for the work, but rather for the BENEFITS. whether they are employed or not, they can receive welfare, foodstamps, etc. Heck, for many of them, living under an overpass in an American city is better than living in the corrugated metal shacks they currently live in.

First, illegal immigrants do not get food stamps or welfare, and they never should. Second, I doubt that underpass in U.S. is better then it is anywhere else. Finally, if the law is reasonable, it is likely strictly enforced as it goes along with the basic economic interest of most parties involved. If it would be simple to come and work here legally, people of honest intention would follow the law. People of criminal intentions, would not. There would be no more excuses that people of honest intentions got caught in the system.

CrocketsGhost
You say

Well, are we to have control over who comes here or not? If so, then when the market for minimum wage unskilled labor dries up, the minimum wage unskilled laborers will be stopped at the border. Is this correct or not? (Of course it is!) Those are also the very sort of people who have the highest interest in obtaining free services available here in America, WHETHER THEY HAVE JOBS HERE OR NOT. Understand? (That is not a rhetorical question. I want you to acknowledge that you understand this elementary point before proceeding with any more of your nonsense!)

It appears to me that this part is important in your reasoning. Sorry for my limited intelligence, but I cannot figure out what you are talking about in this paragraph.

Originally Posted by hak51

CrocketsGhost

You say:

While you pretend that the issue is strictly a matter of a labor void being filled, I have correctly pointed out that many immigrants do not come here for the work, but rather for the BENEFITS. whether they are employed or not, they can receive welfare, foodstamps, etc. Heck, for many of them, living under an overpass in an American city is better than living in the corrugated metal shacks they currently live in.

First, illegal immigrants do not get food stamps or welfare, and they never should. Second, I doubt that underpass in U.S. is better then it is anywhere else. Finally, if the law is reasonable, it is likely strictly enforced as it goes along with the basic economic interest of most parties involved. If it would be simple to come and work here legally, people of honest intention would follow the law. People of criminal intentions, would not. There would be no more excuses that people of honest intentions got caught in the system.

Hak, what are you smoking? I want some!!

I have several friends who work in social services down the hill in Denver. I have been told innumerable times about the food stamps, medical, and many other benefits received by illegals, because the system here is so overwhelmed by requests - there is not accurate way to determine everyones legal status.