Here are some documents related to this case and the no match letter sent to the Whitman's if anyone wants to review this stuff..
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tm ... oria_3.pdf
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Here are some documents related to this case and the no match letter sent to the Whitman's if anyone wants to review this stuff..
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tm ... oria_3.pdf
I'm not here to persuade anyone. I'm here to voice my opinion and if you are not comfortable with that...it's your site...you make the call.Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
You want to talk about the weakness of some one's position...okay...let's do that.
The only federal crimes that we know have been committed are on the part of the illegal immigrant.
So far everything we know about Whitman's side of this indicates that she complied with the law, but you call for her arrest...and you're telling me that that won't interfere with the election...like I said hypocritical at best.
Maybe you don't know as much as you think you do about the law...or maybe you just don't care...an immediate arrest in a case like this is not the way things are done...but don't let that get in the way of your agenda.
If Whitman did in fact comply with the law and did not know that this woman was illegal because she had been given false documentation then she has not committed a crime...period.
An arrest and a perp. walk is not how the determination is made...like I said...you're jumping the gun...there will be an investigation and the result of that investigation will determine whether or not Whitman should be arrested...that's the way it works...you don't get arrested because someone accuses you of committing a crime...you get arrested if there is EVIDENCE that you committed a crime.
Sorry to insist that proper procedure be followed, but I believe in the law...NOT LYNCH MOBS!
Take it how you want, I believe in enforcing all of our immigration laws, but I believe you are taking a stand that is irresponsible and self-serving, not to mention placing the credibility of this organization at risk if it turns out that Whitman did not commit a crime.
Maybe I'm wrong and it's not intentional, but your extremist reaction is introducing prejudice into this that will without a doubt be to the benefit of Jerry Brown and his bid for the Governorship...can you honestly tell me that you're not aware of that.
Enforce the law yes, but follow the proper legal procedure while you're doing it and frankly, you're position ignores the investigation and jumps straight to the arrest and destroys any claims of impartiality or moral superiority you might try to make.
If you really believe in the law, then you should trust the process...that is the most glaring weakness in your opinion.
JackMcIntosh wrote:
"BTW...I could care less who wins in California. I've been an active democrat for a couple of decades, but I find myself at odds with the current party leadership and the policies of the current administration. "
Are they not progressive enough for you or are they not moving fast enough?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lccat
As far as I'm concerned the current democratic leadership has made the word "progressive" a slur.
To me a "progressive" is an extremist more concerned about an agenda than our constitution or our personal liberties.
They've fallen into the trap of "group think" and ideological conformity that they used to accuse the conservatives of.
I live in Indiana...what passes for a "liberal" here is generally considered way too conservative by today's democratic party.
I'm liberal on some issues, very conservative on others and because of it...usually not welcome in either camp for long.
She listed herself as a "legal permanent resident" on the application. It would have been another discrimination charge to request a citizen only. Kinda like saying I want a white only. This is according to the civil rights czars.Quote:
...she should have asked only for a US Citizen to give a job
As an employer, Whitman has an obligation and responsibility to do her due diligence in hiring an employee, or in deciding what agency to use to do her hiring for her. If she were any other employer found with illegals in her employ, she would already be in very deep trouble!Quote:
Originally Posted by JackMcIntosh
I never heard any call to LYNCH anyone--that is inflammatory language! ALIPAC is calling for the government to do what they would normally do. It's obvious that the illegal was in Whitman's employ, and there whould be a deep investigation into that fact. If that requires an arrest to get that kind of investigation, then so be it. The fact remains that anyone NOT in power would already be arrested or, at the least, would be undergoing intensive grilling by the authorities. It's high time that our elected officials and the wealthy powerful in our society answered for their actions like the rest of us would be required to do. If she's exonerated, then fine, but that may be best decided be a jury and a court!
I'm sure William is perfectly aware of how this may affect the gubernatorial race in CA, BUT ALIPAC MUST BE CONSISTENT. If we are calling for the arrest of illegal immigrant law breakers, then we must also call for the arrest of America law breakers.
We as a nation have to realize that we MUST hold our politicians accountable, no matter what party they happen to belong to. CA has unethical, liberal candidates for governor because this is what they have tolerated for so long. It's up to the citizens of CA to get in there and FIGHT for good candidates. It takes a long time to turn the huge ship of state around, but it can be done!
As for trusting the process, how's that working out for us in the illegal immigration fight? Not so hot, as far as I can see. I believe we must often push our officials to do the right thing, just as we are trying to get them to enforce our immigration laws. It's a matter of being consistent in asking for laws to be enforced. Either our laws matter, or they don't. Which is it?
Yea right Jack. Asking the authorities to put these violations in court to accurately determine guilt and innocence is a "lynch mob" tactic.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackMcIntosh
I try to be respectful to everyone, but your outlandish claims that our call for Whitman and Diaz to be arrested is comparable to some vigilante crowd ready to hang an innocent black man from a tree is the exact kind of disgusting hyperbole that has made people sick of Democrats and liberals.
There are many great Democrats in America that side with us on immigration enforcement, but the tactics you are trying to use here wreak of the lowest political denominators.
Your pretenses that you understand the system and values we are discussing are destroyed and your hypocrisy is clear for all to see.
How dare you compare me, anyone here, or any fine American that simply disagrees with you on an issue to a murderous mob ready to hang someone with a rope from a tree.
Get out of here Jack. You have nothing to offer us or this debate. Go crawl back under whatever troll rock you were under before you decided to disgrace this honorable forum with your filth.
You are nothing but a childish name caller that thinks if you insult others they will back down. You will find that using those stunts here will get you more of what you don't want Jack.
W
Post subject: PHOTO ; THE LETTER : NutMeg's Illegal Alien Maid
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tm ... oria_3.pdf
http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/m...010/09/ssa.jpg
http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/m...0/09/check.jpg
I don't know how you can make statements like this. There are probably millions of people knowingly hiring illegal aliens in this country and you're saying that unless they're in a position of power they would be arrested if they were found out? That's nonsense, and I think you and William are completely off base with this. I'm not saying there shouldn't be penalties for hiring illlegals, because of course there should be. Maybe you know something I don't, but I have never heard of anyone getting arrested for hiring illegal aliens in this country and certainly not for hiring an illegal housekeeper, nanny, or gardener.Quote:
Originally Posted by imblest
I'm saying there are employers who get in deep trouble for hiring illegals. I am speaking specifically about raids on manufacturing plants, where as I understand it, some pretty large fines have been imposed. (Maybe I'm wrong about that--there are plenty here at ALIPAC who would know!)Quote:
Originally Posted by LAPhil
Our laws make it illegal to employ a person who is here illegally. If there are millions of people who are doing it, then they are breaking the law and should be made to pay the penalty for doing that, NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE. OK, so maybe the government is NOT doing what it should in all cases of employing illegals. Does that mean that we who are against illegal immigration should just ignore that? Should we just ignore any culpability that Ms. Whitman may have? Do we just take her word for it that she didn't do anything wrong? Do you ever watch "COPS"? Almost every person they arrest declares their innocence--does that make them not guilty? Usually not!
We return again to the point--we are a nation of laws. Do we pick and choose which laws we want to obey? Well, we COULD, but if we get caught, we generally get in trouble. If we have laws, they should be enforced. If they are stupid laws, we should get rid of them, but we CAN'T just ignore them! The people who are hiring illegal housekeepers, gardeners, etc. should be prosecuted for doing that, then maybe they'll stop and give that job to a U.S. citizen who needs work!!
Let me restate the sentence that seems to bother you the most--
*ALIPAC is calling for the government to do what they SHOULD normally do.* Is that better?
Immigrant is mystery figure in Cal governor's race
(10-01) 15:58 PDT Los Angeles, CA (AP) --
She is the mystery in the middle of the California governor's race.
Three days after Republican Meg Whitman's former maid accused her of knowing for years she was an illegal immigrant from Mexico, almost nothing is known about her.
Nicky Diaz Santillan — a 39-year-old mother of three — hasn't spoken a word in public since. She's left behind a trail of questions about her story and how she ended up as the client of a high-powered Los Angeles lawyer with Democratic ties.
Diaz Santillan hasn't answered a single question from reporters. No one answered the door Wednesday at an address listed for Diaz Santillan in a San Francisco suburb, and a phone number listed for the family has been disconnected.
Whitman denies the allegation
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2010-09/56443707.jpg
[color=darkblue][b]Attorney Gloria Allred, left, escorts Nicandra Diaz Santillan after a news conference at Allred's office in which she said Meg Whitman's former housekeeper was “exploited, disrespected, humiliated and emotionally and financially abused.â€
WOW!! Looks like Nicky really is 4 foot 5 inches tall, Allred who is petit towers over her!!
Okay, so "William" is aware of how this will impact the Governors race..I never doubted that for a second and I'm sure grabbing some attention and getting his name out there in the middle of this was never even a consideration :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by imblest
Holding politicians accountable and calling for the arrest of a candidate for Governor at this late date in the race are two different things.
You don't trust the process, that's fine, but what does that leave us...hot heads spouting off when it's convenient for their cause and demanding that someone be arrested even before there is evidence to support an arrest?
Like I said...lynch mob.
http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowln...post-logo1.jpg
http://s.huffpost.com/contributors/m...n/headshot.jpg
The Real Housekeeper of California
Look, she's never been a beloved candidate. Even Meg Whitman's supporters have never really been able to get excited about her. For most of them she may simply be the only ideological game in town. The rest are likely more blinded by the endless array of ads bought with her personal fortune than they are dazzled with her promise as a leader. What's truly astonishing is that this woman is literally trying to purchase an election and the best she can get is layaway. Up against Jerry Brown, a septuagenarian fixture in California politics, she casts herself as the fresh face in this race and she's not only significantly behind him in the polls, but she actually comes across as the stodgy, self-entitled insider to his scrappy, fighter-for-the-people.
That was all before the remarkable events of the past two days. This is a woman who has campaigned heavily on getting tough with employers who hire undocumented workers and then yesterday, incredibly, we learn that she was one of them! She had an undocumented immigrant working in her house for nine years.
It's not like Meg Whitman's problems with hypocrisy are new. Since the beginning of her campaign, she's been forced to answer questions about the uncomfortable fact that when she casts a vote for herself in a few weeks it'll be the very first time she sets foot in a voting booth! She wants Californians to come to the polls on her behalf and yet she's never deigned to go and vote herself?
Whitman has an ad in which she says that other politicians don't realize how serious the unemployment situation is because "they don't see it every day." However, she declares, "I see it every day." Sure, Whitman sees unemployment every day. That's because she shipped 40% of eBay's jobs overseas! The California Labor Federation called her a "serial outsourcer."
I love California. I've been here for twenty years and I won't ever live anywhere else. The state is as vast as it is varied, but there is a common theme that this is a place where anything is possible. Even if you spend $120 million dollars of your own money, you can still lose.
I came across an interesting older article.
Is There an “Evilâ€
Uhmmm...William...take a deep breath and exhale slowly...Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
You're the big guy on this block and you're obviously not used to anyone standing up to your bullying tactics, but you don't have a monopoly on patriotism and despite you cries of righteous indignation...you don't have a clue what you're talking about either.
I support enforcing our immigration laws too, but unlike you I do believe due process has its place.
If an investigation reveals evidence that Whitman should be charged with a crime then she should be charged...if and when...not before.
That's the way it works. I'm sorry, but I didn't make the rules...I just like to see them followed.
If you had your way (which you won't) simply being accussed would result in incarceration and that's not what America is all about...at least not the America that the rest of us live in.
I admit that I am confrontational. I think your position is infintile and self serving and I don't believe in "playing nice".
You're wrong on this one and attacking me isn't going to change that.
If Whitman was never the least bit suspicious within that 9 year period...............she's either senile or just plain stupid! :roll:
With that, it would be best if she was kept clear of the Governor seat...or any public office seat for that matter. 8)
JackMcIntosh wrote,
What does the "late date" have to do with anything?Quote:
Holding politicians accountable and calling for the arrest of a candidate for Governor at this late date in the race are two different things.
I do not care if it is Nutmeg, Wonder Boy, or Joe Blow from Idaho, until I can get a card to put in my wallet that allows me to speed up and down the highway and get a free pass, I would hope for equal justice...........no matter what the "date" happens to be.
Why make such a big deal out of a woman (Not a very smart one at that. Just look at the "late date." JMO) that happens to be a billionaire, ex-CEO of a major corporation, not just any corporation mind you, a technology corporation, thus vulnerable in many areas of her life, and she does not have a thorough background done on a employee so close to her family, business and self, and running for office and you just think all is honky-dory?
Jack you sound like you are POed and looking for "Change"...........in all the wrong places. :lol:
Chill out Dude. It does not matter what idiot wins out there,......I am willing to bet you will still get your constellation prize.
Time to hold their feet to the fire Jack. You hold her feet, I'll get the torch. 8O
mkfarnum wrote,
Quote:
If Whitman was never the least bit suspicious with in that 9 year period..
Yup. That about sums it up. Either incompetent or a liar.
I feel for you folks out there in California. No choice in 2008, and now you end up with Dunder and Blunder to choose from after a Kindergartner Cop. :roll:
As a former SoCal resident, I understand your situation about being caught between a rock and a hard place. They are so many pro-illegal State and local RepresnativesQuote:
"JackMcIntosh" wrote:
Uhmmm...William...take a deep breath and exhale slowly...
You're the big guy on this block and you're obviously not used to anyone standing up to your bullying tactics, but you don't have a monopoly on patriotism and despite you cries of righteous indignation...you don't have a clue what you're talking about either.
I support enforcing our immigration laws too, but unlike you I do believe due process has its place.
If an investigation reveals evidence that Whitman should be charged with a crime then she should be charged...if and when...not before.
That's the way it works. I'm sorry, but I didn't make the rules...I just like to see them followed.
If you had your way (which you won't) simply being accussed would result in incarceration and that's not what America is all about...at least not the America that the rest of us live in.
I admit that I am confrontational. I think your position is infintile and self serving and I don't believe in "playing nice".
You're wrong on this one and attacking me isn't going to change that.
, it's something that can't be avoided.
Let's say that Whitman won the election and then it was proven in court that she did break the US immigration Law by having clear knowlege that Diaz was in this country illegally when hired.
What would you do or say and how would you feel?
Would you regret that you voted for a person that supports illegal immigration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundabout
Equal justice is just the point.
You don't arrest someone and haul them in front of a judge until you have evidence that they have committed a crime.
I'm not saying she's innocent.
I'm simply saying that there is a proper way that this should be handled and the people running this organization have total disregard for that procedure.
If I lived in California I would be upset that there wasn't a better choice to be made than between Whitman and Brown.
For cryin' out loud, Whitman probably wouldn't even have a chance if the dems hadn't decided to recycle that flower power freak Jerry Brown, but the public call for her arrest at this point by this organization is irresponsible and will prejudice the race and at this "lat date" there is no way to undo the damage if the investigation finds no grounds for an arrest.
Well, it's not like anyone in California is going to have much of a choice is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam
Neither Brown or Whitman support full enforcement of our immigration laws.
How are you going to feel if she loses and then the investigation finds that she did not break the law?
Will it make you feel good to think that this organization helped (even in some small way) to influence public opinion and elect Governor Jerry Brown?
How does that help the cause?
The most important point in all of this is that the people in charge of this "honorable" site claim to be all about enforcing our laws, but then want to leap frog from accusation to arrest with no time in between for the proper investigation and gathering of evidence.
Sloppy, risky, irresponsible and self-serving.
Mob mentality.
So you answer a question with a question. That says alot right there.Quote:
"JackMcIntosh" wrote:Well, it's not like anyone in California is going to have much of a choice is it?
Neither Brown or Whitman support full enforcement of our immigration laws.
How are you going to feel if she loses and then the investigation finds that she did not break the law?
Will it make you feel good to think that this organization helped (even in some small way) to influence public opinion and elect Governor Jerry Brown?
How does that help the cause?
The most important point in all of this is that the people in charge of this "honorable" site claim to be all about enforcing our laws, but then want to leap frog from accusation to arrest with no time in between for the proper investigation and gathering of evidence.
Sloppy, risky, irresponsible and self-serving.
Mob mentality.
Fine, don't answer my question.
But I'll answer yours.
It doesn't matter how i would feel, I'm no longer a resident of Ca. But I did live there (1975-2007) and when Jerry Brown was Governor.Quote:
How are you going to feel if she loses and then the investigation finds that she did not break the law?
ALIPAC has made no accusations.Quote:
The most important point in all of this is that the people in charge of this "honorable" site claim to be all about enforcing our laws, but then want to leap frog from accusation to arrest with no time in between for the proper investigation and gathering of evidence.
Diaz has already stated that Whitman knew she was in this country illegaly.
That is what is called "probable cause", which in the Laws eyes is enough to sustain an arrest.and then let the court decide on the innocense.
It doesn't matter how i would feel, I'm no longer a resident of Ca. But I did live there (1975-2007) and when Jerry Brown was Governor.Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam
ALIPAC has made no accusations.Quote:
The most important point in all of this is that the people in charge of this "honorable" site claim to be all about enforcing our laws, but then want to leap frog from accusation to arrest with no time in between for the proper investigation and gathering of evidence.
Diaz has already stated that Whitman knew she was in this country illegaly.
That is what is called "probable cause", which in the Laws eyes is enough to sustain an arrest.and then let the court decide on the innocense. [/quote:1femb7u2]
No, that is what is called an accusation.
It may be enough to prompt an investigation, but not an arrest.
Diaz says yes, Whitman says no.
One persons word against another and in America, the real America, without evidence to give one persons word more weight than the other we don't simply arrest people because someone accuses them of a crime.
I could say that you stole my bubble gum, but without some sort of evidence...some reason for law enforcement to believe you did in fact steal my bubble gum...you're not going to be arrested.
JackMcIntosh is banned for failing to honor our rules regarding personal attacks on the boards.
W
This was getting to be like City-Data's illegal immigration forum. Trolls and pro illegals would argue whether Arizona was a border state or not. :roll:
Meg Whitman - 9 Años
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wMeJ51h ... r_embedded
Meg Whitman - "Dos Caras" (TWO FACE )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEwgpqs_hWc&NR=1
Thanks for the links, both worth comments on youtube.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
mkfarnam wrote:
rebart wrote:
"This is over the top. Diaz gave her forged papers. Whitman got Diaz from an employment agency with all the "correct" papers. Whitman has a copy of those papers. Whitman was the victim, not the perpetrator.
Jerry Brown is a career politician who has fed at the public trough all his life. He even got an allowance from his parents until he was in his 50s. He has gone around from Sacramento to Oakland and anywhere he can to get a political job. In the sixties we called him "Governor Moonbeam" or "Jerry the Fairy", or other good nicknames.
Your ill-thought campaign to prosecute an innocent Whitman could give Jerry the governorship, and CA can't take that. STOP before you do something stupid because you let political mudslinging influence you.
It looks like the race for California Governor is a no-win situation.........either way.
It doesn't surprise me one bit.
No, it is not a no win situation either way. Whitman has much better ideas for California than Arnold ever did and of course has better ideas than Brown. Whitman isn't my lesser of two evil candidates.
I don't appreciate people who don't live in California trying to help Brown win over something they clearly do not have all of the information on to be making such a ridiculous demand for her arrest.
I can see the headlines now - ALIPAC supports Brown, demanding Whitman's arrest.
I can also see ALIPAC going bye bye within about six months due to membership drop after this."
It HAS to be the lesser of two evils because that is usually the only choices we are given! It does MORE harm to pre-determine Meg's guilt when Jerry Brown is the only one who will benefit. William, if you want to press this issue on principle, you will be doing more harm than good. YOU don't know that she is guilty so leave it alone! Which is worse? Jerry Brown, or Meg Whitman, who might be guilty. I don't think you would have many legal Californians on your side. Should we have every RINO arrested because they might have a skeleton in their closet, thereby giving the Democraps the election?
I was hoping that the Tea Party would actually form a new party. Instead, they want to take the Republican party over, but to do this they say we will have to vote for some RINOS who are the only ones running against a Democrap. I would have preferred a NEW party. I was out-voted because they said it would give the Democraps the election. Every poli-tic says what they think will get them elected. Including Meg, who is reaching out to Latinos, but she isn't a Democrap!
If we listen to all political mud-slinging we wouldn't vote at all! By the time they are done with each other we feel we have no one to vote FOR, only to vote AGAINST. This is the case here.
Quote:
rebart wrote:Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
"This is over the top. Diaz gave her forged papers. Whitman got Diaz from an employment agency with all the "correct" papers. Whitman has a copy of those papers. Whitman was the victim, not the perpetrator.
Jerry Brown is a career politician who has fed at the public trough all his life. He even got an allowance from his parents until he was in his 50s. He has gone around from Sacramento to Oakland and anywhere he can to get a political job. In the sixties we called him "Governor Moonbeam" or "Jerry the Fairy", or other good nicknames.
Your ill-thought campaign to prosecute an innocent Whitman could give Jerry the governorship, and CA can't take that. STOP before you do something stupid because you let political mudslinging influence you.
It looks like the race for California Governor is a no-win situation.........either way.
It doesn't surprise me one bit.
No, it is not a no win situation either way. Whitman has much better ideas for California than Arnold ever did and of course has better ideas than Brown. Whitman isn't my lesser of two evil candidates.
I don't appreciate people who don't live in California trying to help Brown win over something they clearly do not have all of the information on to be making such a ridiculous demand for her arrest.
I can see the headlines now - ALIPAC supports Brown, demanding Whitman's arrest.
I can also see ALIPAC going bye bye within about six months due to membership drop after this."
It HAS to be the lesser of two evils because that is usually the only choices we are given! It does MORE harm to pre-determine Meg's guilt when Jerry Brown is the only one who will benefit. William, if you want to press this issue on principle, you will be doing more harm than good. YOU don't know that she is guilty so leave it alone! Which is worse? Jerry Brown, or Meg Whitman, who might be guilty. I don't think you would have many legal Californians on your side. Should we have every RINO arrested because they might have a skeleton in their closet, thereby giving the Democraps the election?
I was hoping that the Tea Party would actually form a new party. Instead, they want to take the Republican party over, but to do this they say we will have to vote for some RINOS who are the only ones running against a Democrap. I would have preferred a NEW party. I was out-voted because they said it would give the Democraps the election. Every poli-tic says what they think will get them elected. Including Meg, who is reaching out to Latinos, but she isn't a Democrap!
If we listen to all political mud-slinging we wouldn't vote at all! By the time they are done with each other we feel we have no one to vote FOR, only to vote AGAINST. This is the case here.[/quote:2x8qoaj1]
Patrioticpatti, would you mind having my name removed from your last post..........I never posted that. :?
[/quote:3t5yrqax][/quote:3t5yrqax]Quote:
Originally Posted by mkfarnam
Patrioticpatti, would you mind having my name removed from your last post..........I never posted that. :?
The idea of arresting Meg Whitman is beyond absurd and as far as I'm concerned isn't even worthy of discussion. Oh, and by the way, I plan to vote for her tomorrow.