Thread: An Angry American

Mirth, First off, welcome aboard!

Don't be too sure about 9/11.
There are allot of unanswered facts about 9/11.
Especially how and why bldg #7 even came down.
I'm not sure what to believe myself, but when you hear allot of these facts that were left out of the MSM, it really makes one wonder.

1, it is a known fact that jet fuel only burns at a temperature around 1,800 F. Steel (especially UL structural steel) is approved to approx 2,800 F. Ant UL's tests were done with steel burning for 8 hours in jet fuel.
2, Every major building design expert in the world has said there is no way burning jet fuel could have done enough damage to have the twin towers collapse on itself.
3, there is seismic data which recorded an underground explosion seconds before each tower fell. The government said these explosions were the diesel backup generators, and yet they were fully intact.
Interestingly enough, the seismic stations said the explosions they recordered were explosions caused by hi-explosives underground.
4, the recording tapes from the Firemen even indicate the fires were contained.
5, bldg 7 only had two small fires inside before the bldg went down. The bank (which still stands) was closer to the twin towers than bldg 7 was.
6, Mayor Guliani admitted to getting a phone call to leave bldg 7 (this was before the planes hit)
7, never in the history of skyscrapers, has there been a building collapse due to fire.
8, its interesting that the owner of the WTC (Larry Silverstein) bought the entire complex for 500 million. After the 9/11 attacks, Larry ended getting $70 billion dollars from the insurance.

There are many more facts which have been ignored.

It may not have been our government, but something isn't right.

Sherlock Holmes said it best:
"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Sippy:

As usual, you are very right. There is coincidence piled upon coincidence, piled upon coincidence.

One of the things that I read somewhere was that all the US fighters were supposedly in war games scenarios that day - away from New York. One of the airline flight controllers supposedly asked the question (when told about the hijacking)

On a BBC video report which focuses on the 'hijacker screening video', a clip is played from the voice of a 9/11 flight controller, in which he responds to news of a hijacked flight heading towards New York with the words, "is this real world, or an exercise?'

Just because someone is paranoid doesn't mean that nobody's out to get them.

Thanks for the kind welcome Sippy, I appreciate it. Honestly though, one would have to be seriously disillusioned and have watched too many Hollywood movies to believe any of the crazy conspiracy garbage.

<2, Every major building design expert in the world has said there is no way burning jet fuel could have done enough damage to have the twin towers collapse on itself.>

‘burning’ jet fuel alone, maybe not, I don’t know. What seems to be conveniently NOT mentioned is the repercussion the initial tremendous physical impact would have had on the structural integrity BEFORE the added punishment of thousands of gallons of burning jet fuel would have on the already compromised structure. Once that upper part of the structure was compromised enough, add the kinetic energy of 10s of thousands of tons of concrete and steel collapsing down on the yet unaffected structure below it.
The event was simply unprecedented and NO expert in the world could be 100%, absolutely, without a shadow of doubt, certain of the never before witnessed physics involved with this event. There was also a time when every expert would have said the world is flat and the universe revolves around the Earth. A stretch of an analogy but the point is not lost, we do not always yet possess the knowledge or understanding as to the underlying truths surrounding the world we live in. Every thread of me believes any expert who thought this, simply had no clue as to the true forces of nature at work under such unexperienced circumstances.

< 6, Mayor Guliani admitted to getting a phone call to leave bldg 7 (this was before the planes hit)>

I don’t even know if that’s true or not, however, like the conspiracy theorist, I can speculate. The FOLLOWING conspiracy is one I believe more realistic and certainly more probable.
The logical assumption would be there was no time for mass evacuations and no one yet knew the magnitude of what was about to happen, but a figure as important as the Mayor of New York City received advanced warning from other authorities of a POTENTAIL threat heading their way and was asked to evacuate as a precautionary measure (it was known well in advance there was a hijacked plan before the first one actually even hit). I’m sure whoever that may have been sending word could not have begun to imagine the extent of the inevitable reality that was about to strike. Any record of this warning could very well have been kept quite due to the negative effect it would have, should it become known the Mayor received advanced warning while nothing was done to warn the thousands of others. The outpouring of criticism would be unheard of and there would be at least one lawsuit for every unfortunate person who died, more than 2000 of them. Not so unrealistic if you ask me.

< 7, never in the history of skyscrapers, has there been a building collapse due to fire.>

Never before in history has a fully fueled Boeing 767-200, traveling several hundred miles per hour, crashed into a 31 year old glass building, several hundred feet in the air. Any ‘expert’ who thinks he can predict with any amount of guarantee, the effects of such an event is lying to himself. My point is, many believe we simply do not have the knowledge to predict “precisely” what is possible or impossible under such unprecedented circumstances.

At any rate, as crazy as I think one would have to be, I can respect one’s right to believe what they want regarding the event. Gotta run, I’m meeting Elvis for a late night dinner

Mirth

Mirtrhrindr if she is a Bozo then bring on the clowns. The only thing I slightly disagreed with her about was 9/11 being an inside job. I do believe that the government has used 9/11 to take away freedoms.

I share the lady's anger.

I'am certainly no structual engineer but I understand a few things;
When I was in a trauma class I was taught this formula: mass X velocity = foot pounds of torque. I have no idea what a jet plane weighs but I can imagine the impact caused major damage to the structure.
As a mechanic and welder I can tell you that any time a straight piece of steel is bent is loses all it's strength, the steel used in these building are a soft steel so they will flex in the wind and not break. The main reason the Titanic sunk was due to a very hard brittle steel that allowed the hull to break on impact instead of bending. Think of a aluminum arrow, you can shoot it into a piece of wood and it will not bend but if you put a kink or dent in it and try to shoot with a powerful bow it will fold up on you.
Once you have massive damage to such a large portion of these buildings it places much more stress on the other supporting beams and they will bend under the extreme weight and once they go you will have a domino effect as more weight is added to the other supporting beams. These buildings were designed to withstand high winds and earthquakes not a jumbo jet crashing into them at over five hundred miles an hour.

Originally Posted by dlm1968

I am angry that the more I read about 9-11 the more it looks like an
inside job that was allowed to happen,

Run a google search on "operation northwoods"

http://www.loosechange911.com/

Aside from what anyone may or may not believe about 9/11, the event did bring about the Patriot Act and Homeland Security which are for the most part infringements on our rights.

For me, there are a lot of unanswered questions about 9/11 and things that do not add up. Was our government in on it or at least allowed 9/11 to occur? I don't know. Maybe.

As for Iraq - getting rid of evil dictators will always be a good thing. Should we cut and run, I don't think so. On the other hand the Middle East is a huge mess and quite frankly if I were in the White House we wouldn't have a foreign policy (guess that is why I am not in the White House). I am just sick of the US policing the world and coming to the aid of all. We have enough problems of our own that need to be fixed.

I thought is was a pretty good summary of most of things that have gone wrong in this country.

Originally Posted by andyt

Mirtrhrindr if she is a Bozo then bring on the clowns. The only thing I slightly disagreed with her about was 9/11 being an inside job. I do believe that the government has used 9/11 to take away freedoms.

I share the lady's anger.

I agree with you, however, for me personally, it started out pretty strong (at least the parts preceding the 9/11 statement, I stopped reading after that) and was consistent with my own philosophies, but that one single, outlandish statement was enough to discredit any credibility for me personally.

I believe our government is capable of a lot of things, but I think people who believe they are capable of playing an active, intentional role in a deed to the extent of evil 9/11 was, has seen too many movies. I also believe it would be impossible to keep such a conspiracy objectively secrete. However, I couldn’t agree more that our government failed to act on pre-9/11 intelligence that may have prevented the act. I simply think people misjudged and underestimated the potential… the events of 9/11 were so unprecedented I feel people simply didn’t believe what happened, could happen and they failed to act. And believe me, there are FEW people who disagree with our current administration more than I.

Mirth

I thought is was a pretty good summary of most of things that have gone wrong in this country.

I agree. I share the woman's righteous anger and I think most Americans can relate to it. We have a government that is by and large out of control and cares little about what "We the People" think.