Thread: Blackwater Training US Police

Blackwater drew guns and disarmed American Soldiers
Outrage doesn't even begin to describe that. A private mercenary army pulling guns on our real American soldiers? Eric Prince should be tried for treason. Disarming American trrops in a war zone is definitely aiding the enemy

Submitted: 8 days ago, made popular 7 days ago
Submitter: puunjab (news: submissions, diggs, comments)
Topic: News » World & Business » Political News
Source: msnbc.msn.com
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http://digg.com/politics/Blackwater_dre ... n_Soldiers


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+221 diggs by ChristPissed on 10/12/2007
christain terrorist eric prince belongs in capitivity in gauntanamo
View 13 replies to this comment (most popular has 175 diggs)+378 diggs by yurbud on 10/12/2007
Even conservatives should be outraged at this behavior.

The chain of command should be the lowest E-1 in the regular military outranks these guys.

And if Blackwater is subject to the laws of no country, no Iraqi or American soldier should be punished if they treat them like enemy combatants.
View 10 replies to this comment (most popular has 66 diggs)+233 diggs by 309east on 10/12/2007
Well, Blackwater is like "Hmmm, the US government pays us 100x what they pay their soldiers, that clearly means that we are way more important then measly soldiers". This would have been a great opportunity for a little "friendly fire" incident.. unfortunately the soldiers wouldn't have stood a chance, because the government cant afford to supply them with decent equipment because all the money is going to blackwater.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)+208 diggs by Verchiel77 on 10/12/2007
Swaggering, trigger happy, man-children.

A billion of our tax dollars at work.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 41 diggs)+132 diggs by sensoukami on 10/12/2007
This is what happens in the absence of accountability. Accountability MUST be made the guiding principal of how be base our societys and how we bahave as individuals. Be it unaccountable public teachers unions or unaccountable teenager thugs or unacountable Blackwater mercs or unacountable politicians. Start from there, and then build society.
View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 8 diggs)+154 diggs by maou on 10/12/2007
Support Our Troops! I keep hearing. Well look what kind of bullshit my tax dollars are supporting. Sure as hell ain't the troops.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -119 diggs by foxhaze on 10/12/2007
Get off your self-righteous high horses, you bastards.
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 30 diggs)+74 diggs by swrostmore on 10/12/2007
Even worse, there has been at least one incident where US soldiers were taking orders from Blackwater personnel in a firefight.
View 5 replies to this comment (most popular has 19 diggs)+91 diggs by quaxon on 10/12/2007
Why the **** hasnt anyone classified blackwater as a terrorist organization? Also it really shows how much support the government really shows the troops when they are replacing them in every corner of the military with private contracters that get paid more and have better benefits and are also immune to prosecution for any crimes committed
View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 20 diggs)+67 diggs by superfusion on 10/12/2007
Treason ... and a side order of treason.

Again, this company has addresses and assets in the United States. Cannot a state government step in and do what Bush is obviously unwilling to do.
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 8 diggs)+70 diggs by codehkr77 on 10/12/2007
If I was a soldier and I saw someone who wasn't wearing a GI military uniform and holding a gun, I'll take them out.
View 6 replies to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)+29 diggs by quaxon on 10/12/2007
Anyone living in North Carolina care to pay their headquarters a little visit and give them a taste of their own medicine? NC is a gun loving state aint it?
View 5 replies to this comment (most popular has 14 diggs)+106 diggs by budgetguitar on 10/12/2007
I wish the press would start calling them what they are...Mercinaries. Not private military contractors. A guy laying sewer pipe in a neighborhood is a contractor. A overpaid adrenaline junky who thinks he's more important than the military who hires him is a MERCINARY, and an ass hat to boot!
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 12 diggs)+32 diggs by Pureeviljester on 10/12/2007
i woulda shot them.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has -14 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -24 diggs by joebrender on 10/12/2007
Who would you rather have guarding you, Bob, the Pharmacist from Des Moines, IA, who's also a reservist MP, or a green beret who left the army and is now working for an elite mercenary force.
I guess I can see why they get some support. Root of prblem = undersized Army.
View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 33 diggs)+8 diggs by claybird on 10/12/2007
Article on one page: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21163806/site/newsweek ...+32 diggs by scottykempf on 10/12/2007
I wouldn't have blamed the soldiers if they did. What soldiers takes orders from someone claiming to be Blackwater? Didn't they have a seargent or command officer to tell them what to do?
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 10 diggs)+36 diggs by wtfpwned98 on 10/12/2007
What if our mercenaries turn on us?
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20070603_Wh ...
View 6 replies to this comment (most popular has 7 diggs)+48 diggs by wtfpwned98 on 10/12/2007
"'It cannot happen here' is always wrong," the philosopher Karl Popper wrote. "A dictatorship can happen anywhere."
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 6 diggs)+12 diggs by bullhead2007 on 10/12/2007
I say line them up in front of an execution squad.+49 diggs by saijm on 10/12/2007
There is an easy solution. There should have been a buttload of dead Blackwater mercs killed at the hands of U.S. soldiers. As far as I am concerned Blackwater is operating outside the rule of international and U.S. law. As a non-uniformed para-military group they should be held to the same standard the Bush administration holds other non-uniformed para-military groups. They should be considered to not have protection under the Geneva Conventions.
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 8 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -12 diggs by BobOki on 10/12/2007
This story should not be listened to, BY THIS REPORTER, very closely. When they are quoting a movie and not life:
"One military contractor, who spoke anonymously for fear of retribution in his industry, recounted the story of a Blackwater operative who answered a Marine officer's order to put his pistol on safety when entering a base post office by saying, "This is my safety," and wiggling his trigger finger in the air."
This is a direct scene fromn the movie BlackHawk Down.
View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 16 diggs)+59 diggs by originaldna on 10/12/2007
Sweet, the praetorian guards rise again, and so the destruction of American takes one more step closer, what better way to split a notion, Hired guns for politicians pulling guns on a nation’s last line of defense. You read about empires imploding, but I never thought to my wildest dreams this is how they start.

Digg me down it you will but you know it's true.
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 6 diggs)+14 diggs by swrostmore on 10/12/2007
I wonder what made the mercenary in the photo think that Oakley snowboarding goggles can function as ballistic glasses.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 18 diggs)+37 diggs by lattethunder on 10/12/2007
There's a special circle in Hell waiting for people who kill for profit. They used to be called mercenaries. And this isn't about an undersized army: Iraq is the neoconservative experiment for a completely privatized nation. Controlled global chaos equals profits for corporations. War is great business.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 16 diggs)+17 diggs by SillyDigger on 10/12/2007
Why didn't those soldiers waste those blackwater thugs?
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 14 diggs)+17 diggs by TheHydrogens on 10/12/2007
Buried. Rawsto--- wait... you mean that it ISN'T just liberal blogs that can spot things that are going wrong? You mean that the trolls can't just come here and pass this off as lies from "rawsewage"? Interesting.... dugg.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)+6 diggs by kernel16 on 10/12/2007
KOS Blackwater.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -9 diggs by solid12345 on 10/12/2007
You know you can't speak out of two sides of your ass.

If you claim outrage in the name of supporting the troops but hate these mercs sign up for the army. The is the only reason we are using mercs to make up for the lack of uniformed men.
View 6 replies to this comment (most popular has 11 diggs)+16 diggs by SuperMoses on 10/12/2007
This is outrageous, but it's not as outrageous as them killing innocent iraqi civilians.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+26 diggs by wakananda on 10/12/2007
These are the new SS. It's history repeating.

US military ought to be taking these thugs out when they act up. Fight them over there, or you'll be fighting them over here, in your home town.
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)+12 diggs by trilks on 10/12/2007
Seriously, **** those guys.+12 diggs by Frei on 10/12/2007
Not only do the people in the military have to out up with insurgents and tons of other BS, now they have wanna-be cowboys getting in their way and crating more civil unrest.+17 diggs by RabidAngel on 10/12/2007
Can we "blackwaterboard" these ****ers? I resent their very existance in my country.
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has -1 diggs)+13 diggs by Sharky35 on 10/12/2007
A M E R I C A - **** YEAH!+15 diggs by sclifford on 10/12/2007
Given that none of us were there, we cannot know the circumstances. It seems that both Marines and Blackwater guys came out of that situation alive.
However, at first blush my reaction, had I been the Marine officer, would have been to order the Marines to open fire on the Blackwater operatives.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)+7 diggs by snoots on 10/12/2007
Does anyone else kind of see this piece as a blame shift? I'm not denying that Blackwater is undoubtedly corrupt, and there seems to be a serious problem here, but isn't this just shifting attention from misdeeds of the U.S. Government to some private corporate entity?
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 6 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -16 diggs by originaldna on 10/12/2007
I hope the Iraqi freedom fighters exploit this, dress as blackwater employee and off an American solder, and vice verse. the plot thickens
View 5 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -8 diggs by rmxz on 10/12/2007
Seeing how many friendly fire incidents happen over there it's certainly understandable that they'd see this as making it safer for them and the state-department guys they're trying to protect. Seems all the arguments that people use to defend the shootings of Iraqi civilians can apply here: "But in this war zone anyone [especially well armed people] could potentially be a threat". Just because someone claims to be a child/friend/us-military doesn't mean it's safe to trust them until they can confirm those claims. And disarming is certainly less bad than shooting or rounding up and putting in a private jail.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+22 diggs by jsm2112 on 10/12/2007
"This is my safety"--
Wasn't that a line in Black Hawk Down? Apparently they aren't original either...
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)+17 diggs by deleo on 10/12/2007
Why do I have a feeling that Dick Cheney will be getting a $500,000 speaking engagement fee for Blackwater's annual corporate retreat in February of 2009.[below viewing threshold, show comment] -18 diggs by XavierRising on 10/12/2007
You fools don't unterstand jackshit. The liberal media hates blackwater so they try and dig up old hear-say stories. You don't know who these guys are. I almost went and worked for one of these groups not for the money but because I already did my time in the military but I still believe in the cause. I was just tired of not getting paid jackshit for it. You pussies calling for them to be shot make me laugh. You are worthless panty-waste liberals not worth the mud on the bottom of my boot.

Now go ahead and digg me down you protectors of the 1st amendment only when you agree with what is being said. I hate you all so much I can't wait until you finally push us to far and call down the fury of all us right-wing "gun nuts"
View 12 replies to this comment (most popular has 11 diggs)+15 diggs by DesuKN on 10/12/2007
Oh dear, I guess you can't write this one off as "inaccurate because of Rawstory".
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has -1 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -12 diggs by montany on 10/12/2007
My father is a retired 26-year Air Force colonel. My brother is a US Marine Recon Special Forces sniper. I am a US Army contractor. And we all agree that the US Army is, with some exceptions, a lazy, fat, under-trained institution that should be used for supporting the real, highly-trained combatants. But instead, they are thrown to the lions as cannon fodder, not knowing how to properly conduct a firefight or do basic math. It's what the media doesn't tell you that's the deciding factor here. Blackwater has a reason to be arrogant, even though they shouldn't be allowed to act in such a brash manner. Did you know that many Marine combat squads will routinely confiscate the weapons of the Army soldiers assigned to them? They consider them more of a danger to themselves and their allies than the enemy. From what I've seen, I have to agree with the Marines. Blind patriotism has no value. See the facts.
View 6 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)+12 diggs by Christbait on 10/12/2007
You can dub the U.S. Army as a bunch cowboys all you want, but these Blackwater chaps are taking the utter piss.+16 diggs by OutragedCitizen on 10/12/2007
Blackwater is a gun-for-hire merc. group that operates under a Halliburton subsidiary. Who used to be the CEO of the company and still has close ties with it? (Dick Cheney obviously). Multi-million dollar no bid contracts for Blackwater, the establishment of military bases and the continuing occupation of Iraq and eventually Iran. No prosecution for criminal acts of war; Iraq's own government demands that Blackwater leave it's country and not return, but guess what, Blackwater is going nowhere and will continue to work and murder with impunity as it has ties with the most powerful people in the world. And what it really comes down, and all that matters in this disgusting excuse of a democracy that we live in today, is the fact that if you know the right people (powerful elite) you can get away with murder and get paid top dollar to do so with no repercussions or any fear of being tried for your offenses. America the free my ass!
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+2 diggs by n8glenn on 10/12/2007
This is just the tip of the iceberg of evil that is taking place in Iraq every day. No one is accountable, fraud, murder, and wholesale theft of Iraqi resources (oil) are not only protected by the bush administation and his lackeys in the justice department, they are the entire reason we went to Iraq in the first place. The scale of the evil is truly frightening.+10 diggs by Gtitian on 10/12/2007
goodbye America. We hardly knew you.+4 diggs by Fallout911 on 10/12/2007
Kill the mother****ers they are a cancer that's growing in this country.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+37 diggs by KidDynamo0 on 10/12/2007
What is happening to my country?
View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 5 diggs)+5 diggs by delrin500 on 10/12/2007
Why even waste time with creating regulations and rules for these guys?? Just outlaw the usage of specialized "contractors" and create small units within the military to take care of these missions. This will shut down the Blackwaters of the world and clean them out by drafting all of their US trained personnel back into the military then they can continue to use their specialized skill set and we can control them under the current systems and procedures already under the military code of conduct. If they are so patriotic as they say they should have no problem going back into the service.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+1 digg by Leomarth on 10/12/2007
I'll just remind - the vast majority of Blackwater soldiers are ex-US military.
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)-2 diggs by mstoneburner on 10/12/2007
I'm curious why people are so willing to automatically believe the assertions made in a "news story" that doesn't even name the sources involved. Can someone help me understand why so many people are so willing to simply abandon any sort of attempt at critical thinking when it comes to Blackwater? Who is this unnamed colonel they quote? We have no way of knowing if he actually exists or if the "reporter" who wrote this "article" is simply making up quotes. So, seriously, why the rush to judgment?
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 5 diggs)+7 diggs by saijm on 10/12/2007
For all the people trying to justify the existence of Blackwater I believe you need to pick up a history book and look what happens to countries that employ and allow mercenary armies to exist in their country. Blackwater has no loyalty to anyone, and is not sworn to uphold the Constitution.

Let me help you out. Mercenary armies inevitably turn on the countries that employ them.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 0 diggs)+8 diggs by spraguep on 10/12/2007
They need to pass a law stating that mercs can't make more money than the lowest paid soldier.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)-1 diggs by lawldiggg on 10/12/2007
The intelligent and wise man's singularly most important skill is the ability to critically question information that is presented to him. This becomes truly evident when said man can critically question information that is in line with his views.

The article sites its source of the allegation from an army Colonel assigned to investigate a car crash in 2006. It would be short work for the army to reference this incident and check the footnotes for the name of the investigating officer. Now, I would be the first to admit that the army is not know for its rocket scientists (being an Iraq veteran myself), but I can hardly believe that a man can ascend to the rank of Colonel without thinking about simple facts such as this.

I do not claim to be the all knowing source when it comes to the army or Blackwater. What I do bring to the table is first hand experience working with these contractors. In my year in Iraq we worked closely with multiple private security contractors, and not once have they displayed the degree of disregard for authority mentioned here. It is true that they march to the beat of their own drums, and that is to be expected to a degree with non military forces.

The article mentions that a 'soldier who guards a gate' reports that Blackwater never clears their weapons when required to upon entering a base. This strikes me as odd, as that soldier is most likely in the age range of 18 – 21 and his entire existence is based on guarding the gate. If anyone here has spent any time over in the sandbox, I suspect that they know that the gate guards, for however nice and professional soldiers they are, are not exactly 'in the know' for all occurrences in all of Iraq. It would even be inductively forceful to argue that they are susceptible to turning rumor mill into fact. The base that we worked from never had any issues with this, and there are many bases around the country that operate on 'red' status inside the wire.

The purpose of this review is not to blindly defend the Blackwater security company. Actions will speak louder than words over the next few weeks as the congressional hearings unfold. Rather, I want to challenge the group mentality that most seem to have. Look at articles critically and come to decisions for yourself. Check the facts, and question the sources.

Have a good day.
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)+3 diggs by jellygraph on 10/12/2007
everyone who works for blackwater or any other mercenary business need to all be jailed... its outright criminal
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)+2 diggs by bethehammer on 10/12/2007
Great, now they want to put the FBI into Iraq in 'large scale numbers' to ensure that Blackwater isn't doing anything bad. OMFG the FBI will be 100 times worse than Blackwater, just think of Waco or Ruby Ridge and think of what shit these feds can pull. All they have to do is either fire Blackwater guys or execute them - the latter will really make the point
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)+7 diggs by kranberry on 10/12/2007
My worry is what happens after Iraq. These people will be back home and I'm guessing more than a few will retain their weaponry. In that case they will easily have more firepower than ANY local police and MOST government forces. Who will control them then? Or stop them from acting on their own?
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -6 diggs by lawldiggg on 10/12/2007
The intelligent and wise man's singularly most important skill is the ability to critically question information that is presented to him. This becomes truly evident when said man can critically question information that is in line with his views.

The article sites its source of the allegation from an army Colonel assigned to investigate a car crash in 2006. It would be short work for the army to reference this incident and check the footnotes for the name of the investigating officer. Now, I would be the first to admit that the army is not know for its rocket scientists (being an Iraq veteran myself), but I can hardly believe that a man can ascend to the rank of Colonel without thinking about simple facts such as this.

I do not claim to be the all knowing source when it comes to the army or Blackwater. What I do bring to the table is first hand experience working with these contractors. In my year in Iraq we worked closely with multiple private security contractors, and not once have they displayed the degree of disregard for authority mentioned here. It is true that they march to the beat of their own drums, and that is to be expected to a degree with non military forces.

The article mentions that a 'soldier who guards a gate' reports that Blackwater never clears their weapons when required to upon entering a base. This strikes me as odd, as that soldier is most likely in the age range of 18 – 21 and his entire existence is based on guarding the gate. If anyone here has spent any time over in the sandbox, I suspect that they know that the gate guards, for however nice and professional soldiers they are, are not exactly 'in the know' for all occurrences in all of Iraq. It would even be inductively forceful to argue that they are susceptible to turning rumor mill into fact. The base that we worked from never had any issues with this, and there are many bases around the country that operate on 'red' status inside the wire.

The purpose of this review is not to blindly defend the Blackwater security company. Actions will speak louder than words over the next few weeks as the congressional hearings unfold. Rather, I want to challenge the group mentality that most seem to have. Look at articles critically and come to decisions for yourself. Check the facts, and question the sources.

Have a good day.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)-1 diggs by pigfister on 10/12/2007
and so starts the american gov backing off from blackwater so the figure isn't pointed at the ppl hiring mercenaries in the first place.

buried as inaccurate propaganda
Reply to this comment+3 diggs by JosephDoe on 10/12/2007
I know this will sound callous and insensitive from a global humanitarian perspective, but I’m really less concerned about the use of private contractors “in theaterâ€

Could you be just a bit more concise before flooding us with all that stuff?

It seems liberals would be the ones who would be the greatest critics of Blackwater.

you find it or go find another post to V*****V about ... I am military, 21.5 years and a majority of what I know is from what I have seen and what I have been told by people on site.....

Aren't anti-American liberals also use the same sources you are quoting?
Why are we not hearing this stuff in the liberal NY Times and Wash Post?

Liberal or not I dont care... if blackwater pulls weapons on a US soldier (my battle buddies) I'll call'em out.

It only involved 2 US soldiers and from what I understand it was brief. But I would never let that occur.

I have seen blackwaters arrogance first hand and our young soldiers are vulnerable in that environment

As far as Katrina and blackwater ... that was a no no... weapons were confiscated and that goes against the 2nd amendment the right to bear arms....

Katrina proved the government could not protect it's citizens, so the government appointed agency can come in and disarm people that are protecting thier home and property? So that process tells me that if we have a dirty bomb in this country ... the government is going to come take my arms that I need to protect myself and family from looters ...

I dont think so ... I feel for the man that tries to do that

have personal friends who work for Blackwater, I can tell you that it has NO thread of anti-Americanism. It is composed of ex-military veterans who are finally getting paid livable wages for their sacrifices and skills.

Ditto

Originally Posted by AirborneSapper7

Liberal or not I dont care... if blackwater pulls weapons on a US soldier (my battle buddies) I'll call'em out.

It only involved 2 US soldiers and from what I understand it was brief. But I would never let that occur.

I have seen blackwaters arrogance first hand and our young soldiers are vulnerable in that environment

As far as Katrina and blackwater ... that was a no no... weapons were confiscated and that goes against the 2nd amendment the right to bear arms....

Katrina proved the government could not protect it's citizens, so the government appointed agency can come in and disarm people that are protecting thier home and property? So that process tells me that if we have a dirty bomb in this country ... the government is going to come take my arms that I need to protect myself and family from looters ...

I dont think so ... I feel for the man that tries to do that

Thank you for your service to America. You are a great American.

I totally agree with you. Blackwater contractors should never have treated U.S. military with such disrespect. If they can do that to the military then they can do that to local cops and citizens as well.
It doesn't matter if you are liberal or not, Blackwater goons were out of line.

I watched Bill Moyer last night and the whole hour was dedicated to the growing threat of Blackwater and other Mercenary sites in the US.The author of Blackwater was on the show and some of the things he revealed were frightening.

Blackwater went to New Orleans WITHOUT AUTHORITY from our government then later they were given a contract.

Blackwaters leader is a Extreme Right Wing Billionaire Fanatic.

The numer of US Mercenary in Iraq OUTNUMBERS our Military.Blackwater is much better armed then our Miltary and have all the latest armored vehicles.They get paid a lot more then our military personell so some of our soldiers go to work for Blackwater when their service time is up.Others are totally disguested with Blackwater and their arrogance.

Hillary Clinton has one of the top Blackwater people on her staff.

I don't care whether you are a Dem., Repub. or Ind. we should ALL be concerned about Large and growing ARMED Military Mercenary encampments all over our country.They need to be disbanded IMMEDIATELY. IMO

I don't see any real documentation in the chit chat you have shown in your longest post above, which I have reread this morning. I see a lot of 'back and forth' dialogue. If there was any truth to Blackwater pulling guns on our troops, Hilary, Obama and Maher would never let the story die.

Ever since the days of Executive Outcomes in Sierra Leone, most Western security contractors have had exemplary records, but liberals hate them for the good they have done in opposing anarchists and communists.

But let's either fight to win in Iraq (and take all of their oil) or bring the troops and Blackwater home to guard our own borders where they are really needed to stop the Mexican invasion.

Welcome to ALIPAC, Jonathan.