Thread: Rival gang showdown on Max

We have all been talking about concerns of violence from either illegals or those illegals in gangs towards Americans. Although we have yet to see this so far in huge numbers in our area, we saw something lastnight, equally as dangerous. Rival gang staredown on our local commuter train (know as "Max").

About 8:45 pm, we were coming out of Portland towards where we live in the "suburbs", Gresham, on Max. Late as it was, Max was fairly full, so seating was sparse, but there. As my family of four had to split up to seat, leaving my 9 year old daughter and I to sit alone facing the back of the train, my husband and son were further back from us facing the opposite direction.

As we came closer to our destination, the Max runs right through the worst part of Gresham, Rockwood, the illegal alien and gang haven. At this one stop, two young men, shaved heads, tattoos on the necks and teardrops at the eyes, mid-twenties, got on. As soon as they were spotted by this lone man, shaved head, tattoos (all of which were Latino), he in his early 30's, he stood up, facing them.

They stood on one corner of the walkway, while this lone guy stood on the other corner. They did a sort of light nod to acknowledge him, he then opened his jacket to show them "something" within his beltline area, they gave each other pensive looks.

At this point I already had my concerns. The two young men shifted, looked around at all the people, looked at the 30 something guy again, who again showed them whatever he had under his jacket again. All the while he had been turning around our direction looking around towards us.

Now, during this, a guy who had been sitting right in range of this all (the 30 something man had been sitting across from him), began to look very concerned, he apparently saw what was in this guys belt area. I knew at that point something was not good.

My own daughter, having grown up around this stuff, was getting tense, holding her shopping bag close to her body. I shifted my purse to my right side, inwards from the aisle, checking where my cell phone was at and scoping out where the trains emergency button was.

This tension lasted till the two younger men got off about 4 stops down. The 30 something man watched them exit and walk down the road intently from the trains windows. He still did not sit. Next stop, from behind us, another guy we had not seen got off, he too was watched with great intent by the 30 something one. Then he finally sat.

My head was pounding, and my son had finally come to sit by us and we signaled for my husband. The 30 something guy got off finally and I was able to explain to my son and husband what we had seen while facing this direction. Another couple finally sat in a heavy sigh across from us, looking at us and shaking their heads, the man said "they could not have gotten off soon enough!". We all agreed what we had seen was gang rivalry.

At this point the tension was too much for my daughter, she burst into tears. We tried all we could to calm her, she tried to keep her composure, but it was too much for her. We vowed that this time of day for public transportation was out.

Our thoughts were then. What if a weapon filled showdown had happened, it has before? What if they did not care who, and how many were there?

It is getting bad out there. Just a short time ago, not only did we never see this kind of thing, we only heard of it in distant areas, now it is hitting home.

We need to be fighting harder, pushing for ICE crackdowns more, local police to have the authority to contact ICE when they cross paths with gang members who may be illegally here, better enabling the dangerous crminals to be deported. We need these people and their dangerous ways gone. We don't need this here.

Yes, BTW, we plan to make an explanation to Tri-Met authority, they should have had someone on the train, they have a budget for it, this could have been more of a deterrent. Besides, they need to know this kind of thing is going on, and that commuters who pay them for a safe ride are in danger.

For the MTA (NYC transit) they encourage police and other law enforcement types to ride the rails for free. If a problem occurs on the trains they can be called to! I have been on bad trains before (LIRR) but I mostly like peak hour trains to and from work (6am to - 6-7pm from work) but I have been on very early morning and late night trains out of NYC and there are some characters on the train at these hours! NYPD have uniformed officers on the trains out of Penn Station to Jamaica Station (Queens) and get off there and ride it back to Penn. I have witnessed this as there are many drug addicts, drunks, thieves, and other trouble makers between these stops. But if a gang shoot out would a cop or two deter it? I guess it matters to the 2 gangs and how much they don't care for not only human life but there own to keep face!!!

AE, I would suggest getting a concealed weapons permit and start carrying. I have seen this at least 4 different times here in Salt Lake City and other surrounding towns as well. Believe me, I was grateful I was carrying.

Would they care? Maybe not. I at first thought Mr. 30 something gang guy was looking around at all the people on the train, but I do now believe he was actually watching the third guy who was behind us I had not known about.

To me their concern was with their own rivalry, not the other passengers, obviously. I DO firmly believe that a police officer of even a security guard would have been a deterrent. For a while they did have security riding the trains late at night, apparently the constant raises in the fare cannot pay for it anymore. Occassionally the local police will board and just walk the train, but it is not as frequent as it used to be.

I talked with Tri-Met, they asked why I did not call DURING the incident! Well, would YOU want potentially dangerous gang members hear you calling police? Do YOU think they would not turn on YOU? I did, my main concern was with making sure I kept a very close eye on them and making sure I could get my kids down just in case. I was too worried to make ANY phone calls.

My question was to them. I am a paying customer, where is the security at? If I get hurt and they did not have adequate security, would I be able to sue them? They did not know how to answer that.

Not only does it fully anger me that our government has let this go on so long that this is what their failings has brought us to, but also our local transit providers (WHO are federally subsidized as well) fail to provide adequate security during the more risky hours of operation.

I AM getting a good running car, and AM NOT taking mass transit anymore. To heck with "saving resources" and to heck with the ozone layer. My life right now and my families safety is a heck of a lot more important than some obscure theory of how pollution MAY kill us all. If our government cannot make our borders secure, our cities as safe as possible from dangerous foreign invading criminal gangs, then they can start handing out oxygen tanks for fresh air, cause I'm driving to ensure we encounter these types as little as possible.

This fear on that train lastnight was palpable, and it was all alert people who noticed it and felt it.

Oh my word Elizabeth. ICE needs to be aware of this too.

Our local police are up to speed with the gang situation in this area, they have recently attended a two week long training. Since there was the raid at the Fresh Del Monte plant, I am pretty sure ICE is aware of the gang problem but any work they do will have to be facilitated by local law enforcement (when they pick up someone for violations or crimes). Not so sure how cooperative our police here are with federal agents, and if they notify them when they have someone who is illegal.

Now mind you, I can guess and probably be right on this, I am sure they were likely illegals, but it does not mean that is 100%, as we all know that citizens can be gang members too.

However this to me was about the lack of enforcement that should have been happening years ago, so we would not be at this point now. You know, it is that "domino effect". Look the other way 20 years ago when people kept coming across the border illegally, they had kids here and those kids have entered the gang forces. Now if those same people would have been stopped and sent back, and make sure they stayed in their countries of origin, many of the current gang members would not even be in this country.

So now we have to deal with gang members who ARE illegal, but then there are those who are citizens (that anchor baby thing still quite debatable!!) and also have to be dealt with.

Elizabeth do you know if your police are aware of the 287(g) section of the Immigration and Nationality Act passed in 1996. It cost only $526 per officer to be trained to work in conjunction with ICE.

If you approach it as a "criminal alien" problem and not an illegal alien problem you might get their ear. Also, if you speak to them about the costs of other programs and the minimal cost of this one for the help it would give the community perhaps that is another way to approach them.

I think many good officers would agree that this needs to be done. I have had the chance to speak to a few who agree that if the federal government had done their jobs in the first place, many if not all gang members would not be in our town at all.

Our mayor is hot on this issue and I am hoping he will give it some thought. I am trying to find out when the next town hall meeting will be to go and ask some questions about 287 (g) , also make some copies of it and ask if they will consider participating in order to clear Gresham out of illegal aliens who are criminals or are involved in gangs. This would be a big start.

Originally Posted by AmericanElizabeth

I think many good officers would agree that this needs to be done. I have had the chance to speak to a few who agree that if the federal government had done their jobs in the first place, many if not all gang members would not be in our town at all.

Our mayor is hot on this issue and I am hoping he will give it some thought. I am trying to find out when the next town hall meeting will be to go and ask some questions about 287 (g) , also make some copies of it and ask if they will consider participating in order to clear Gresham out of illegal aliens who are criminals or are involved in gangs. This would be a big start.

Good for you Elizabeth. May I suggest you have a folder a copy of the "Fact Sheet", the "Immigration and Nationality Act Request for Information" and its webpage for easy access for them, a copy of the "Executive Memorandum" published by The Heritage Foundation dated March 2, 2006. It the explanation of the Section 287(g), plus documentation of KNOWN not speculated crimes of illegals. If you have some of local crimes would be the best. Of course, Newark, NJ is a good up-to-date story.

Let us know what happens.

Our own local case of the girl killed by an illegal alien in Milwaukie will suffice for him I'm sure, plus of course many others.