Thread: Need your advise friends

I wasn't sure where to post this so if it's in the wrong category,please move it. It is about a personal issue I am having that has in the last few weeks caused me much grief. I went to a religious forum a few days ago to get some advise to help me through this. Here is my original post on that forum.



"I just found this forum and I am so glad I did. I really need some input on a problem I am having. I have been a member of this church all my life although I have been inactive at times, I have recently started going back again and something is bothering me that is going on in my Church. Not too long after I started back,the church started integrating the Spanish speaking population in with ours. When I go to Sunday school it is very distracting when the interpreters speak in Spanish, to the point I lose focus on the lesson. My question is, Is the church aiding and abetting criminal behavior by doing this? If the Spanish speaking people had come here the legal way, they would know how to speak English because that is required when you become a U.S citizen. Now I am starting to wonder if they are here illegally. The Lord has said we are to obey the laws of the land. I have been bothered by this for weeks now and have not discussed this with anyone for fear I will be considered a racist,which I am not. Any advise on the issue would be very helpful. Thank You in advance"

This is just a few of the responses I received....


"Keep in mind that there are many Hispanics in the US who are legal immigrants and yet aren't US citizens, and many of them don't speak English. "

"Immigrating here legally doesn't make you proficient in English. Some people have a harder time learning languages than others. You're jumping to conclusions based on an erroneous assumption. The Church isn't aiding and abetting by teaching people in their native language."


My DH is a "Resident Alien" of the USA. He's been here since the mid 90's and while he is not a US citizen, he *is* here legally.

Also, I don't believe "must speak english" is a requirement for citizenship, since the US has no official language. (at least not Federally recognized. some states have official languages)

Be at least 18 years old at the time of filing the Application for Naturalization, Form N-400
*
Have been lawfully admitted to the United States
*
Have resided as a permanent resident in the United States for at least 5 years or 3 years if you meet all eligibility requirements to file as a spouse of a U.S. citizen
*
Have demonstrated continuous permanent residence
*
Have demonstrated physical presence
*
Have lived for 3 months in the USCIS district or state where the Application for Naturalization, Form N-400 is filed
*
Demonstrate good moral character
*
Show an attachment to the U.S. Constitution
*
Be able to read, write, speak, and understand basic English
*
Demonstrate a knowledge of U.S. civics (history and government)
*
Take the oath of allegiance to the United States
"So yes, you do have to known the basics of English to become a US citizen."

Folks, this is where it started to turn ugly.....

"It kinda sounds like you have a bit of a vendetta against the hispanic/latino population that you really need to get over quick."


"I'm a resident alien. Not an American citizen, but a Filipino citizen living in America. I read the original post and even if I have lots to say, I didn't post until now. It took me THAT long to get over the hurtful statements that I read into that first post."

"People dislike things that appear rooted in bigotry or elitism. I don't know whether the OP has racist or elitist tendencies but it's easy to read them into the original post."

"Why not use this as a chance to learn a little Spanish?"

My question is....Was anything in my original racist? If it was I really want someone to tell me. I was just asking questions that I sincerely wanted answers to. There are more postings on that forum about me being a racist even after I posted I have hispanic friends. I made it clear in responding to a few of them that I am against illegal immigration and that's when the stuff really hit the fan. I am even more confused now and am starting to question my fellow members integrity. I feel awful about this and have been crying on and off all day because of it. They not only jumped to false conclusions about my character but,without knowing me called me a racist and a bigot (among other things), Since posting these questions,it has turned into a 6 page free-for-all there. I had some very nice folks give me good advice but overall it was an attack on my character. Please let me know if I did say anything racist because I don't see it and I really would like to know if I am coming off that way,because I would never want to. Thanks so much for your help.

There is an old saying: sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.
You have asked a legitimate question, IMO, and their words have become a meaningless mish-mash of political belief that has been spoon-fed to them about both legal and illegals being referred to as immigrants.
Yes, they may all respect the laws set forth in the Bible, but the illegals have continually shown disrespect for the country they have arrived in. We have been taught right and wrong, but it is peculiar that the differentiation is not being made.

There is nothing wrong with how you feel, in the old days, you learned English, and were happy to do so. The LESSONS should be TAUGHT IN ENGLISH, to help the 'immigrants' learn to speak and comprehend.

What they are doing is PANDERING to the RACIAL INTERESTS and Ethnic elements of the new parishioners. This is the wrong way to do this!


You feel uncomfortable for a reason! a GOOD REASON!

If you feel uncomfotable with being FORCED to deal with integration issues, then you need to decide if its worth it for you to continue to go there.

I sure a s hell hate to hear regressive Spanish spoken. European Spanish sounds like Old German, but I am not moving to SPAIN, They are moving to America.

I am hispanic, you are right about your question. I came here and learned English and respect the laws that this country has because there is reason why I left my country so, why would I like to change such a wounderful contry like the USA. Hispanics and any other immigrant should respect this country laws and it's language. I might not be perfect with my English but I am still going to college and always learning new words and better writring skills.

I would say that there are somethings we cannot change... If I were you ... I would stop going to that church and move on to the next ... there is a saying that says that your temple is in your heart as long as you believe.

Thanks so much friends. I would never want to be thought of as a racist but that seems to be the thing now if you question certain things. I have to say I am the least racist person you would ever meet. On a daily basis I have friends from ALL races come to my home and grace me with their presence. My sons also.I just don't understand the venom coming out of the forum that I posted these questions. It is quite scary indeed.

Because the churches, or heads of the faiths, are now part of the secular problem. Not the religous issues, but the church is now dabbling in politics where it should not be involved. It's one thing to be humane, but another to be manipulative towards your fellow believers and congregation.

I would say that there are somethings we cannot change... If I were you ... I would stop going to that church and move on to the next ... there is a saying that says that your temple is in your heart as long as you believe.

I've been thinking about your post here off and on today. I have to say Im with Xochi on this one and I could not have said it better. I would be so freakin PO'ed if my church starting forcing spanish on me!!!!!!!!!

Actually it would take less than that (and did) my pastor and the church itself is VERY active in helping the homeless. One day he made a statement about IA's that I didn't agree with and I eventually stopped going and felt very "disenchanted" with church. I have stopped going for now, but want to start up again as my kids are at the age where they will really enjoy and benefit from it. My relationship with the Lord has changed little. I still do my share of believing and communicating with Him and I can say in all truthfulness that I love Jesus more than my next breath. I blow my top, I cuss sometimes, and I have a host of other bad habits, but I have always loved the Lord no matter what. That is where it count in His eyes.

As far as being called a "racist" get used to it. If you are going to be involved in this movement to keep your country then know this - being called a "racist" is soooo convenient for the opposition. Im not often referred as a "hater' but when I have been, I just laugh and it rolls off of me nowadays when a few years ago it would have made me so angry.

What they don't realize is that it has been used SO much-that it is losing it's effectiveness - the only ones it might "work" on are those who are newer to the whole IA issue.....and even at that, the "newbies" eventually "harden up" to it too and then the opposition are on to the next victim. We have been conditioned to believe that we "owe" other races things or gratitude (or whatever) and we have stifled a lot of the bravery and wonderful things that America has given to this planet. You are a citizen of the greatest country on earth and you owe NO ONE an apology for your questions OR your feelings.

You don't owe anyone anything and you sure as hell should not have to sit in church and listen to spanish here in the United States. Insane...

Hello, I'd like to begin by saying The United States has been under attack for many years and one of the tools being used to destroy our nation is illegal immigration. Secondly, grow a backbone and act like an American. Stop grovelling. Are we not the the land of the free and the home of the brave? Racist is a word used by the enemy to shut you and I up, as is the word anti-semite. Wake up those that use those words to quite you are the enemy. The truth is what these creatures fear. Don't allow them to silence you that is there intention. Man up and be as our lord and saviour instructed us "Behold I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." God Bless all of you, Merry Christmas and Long Live the Republic!!!

OnenationunderGod....this is known as a "stumblingblock", Biblically.

If you enter this word in any online Bible search engine, it will bring up much on this issue.

The skinny of that example would be: You have friends from your past who are not yet Christians, but they are your friends and good people. You plan a get together with a few people you like from church, and a lot of your non-Christian friends. Your non-Christian friends swear, and drink, and since you personally are not really bothered by this (as you know these people and know they are decent people), you think nothing of it. However, your invited church friends find it really upsetting and offensive, they choose to leave the party.

In essence, you have put up a stumblingblock for your Christian friends, just as you have found your church has done for you. We are all expected to think before we speak and do something around others, as those who are not believers might then think believers are hypocritical, or fellow Christians might stumble because of something they have heard us say, or seen us do. Basically the Bible teaches that we have a responsibility to make sure we consider others spiritual weaknesses in what we do and say around them (would you invite a practising Jewish friend, whom you have wanted to be a good example of Christians to, over for dinner, and serve shellfish for appetizers and ham for dinner, and then get upset over their offense of very inappropriate food choices?).

Churches have lately gone gaga over catering to the Spanish speakers. Many have allowed them to have their own churches in their buildings, seperate from the main congregation. Now this in itself is not bad, as if someone is still learning English, and here legally, it would be easier to learn at church in Spanish. However, most of us have a strong hunch that most of the non-English speakers in those congregations, likely are not legally here.

The only time I would consider attending a church who was allowing a group of non-English speakers was if I heard it straight from the leadership that their stance was strong against illegal immigration (knowing this is our law and obeying the law was important to them) and although they cannot check all church goers for their legal status (that could include a white person from Canada too), that they would admonish any law breaking in this area of law.

The best you can now do is to go to the pastoral staff and speak directly to them about this. Let them know it is something that you are bothered by, and also realize they cannot, or are not in the position of checking church goers, but that if you were assured their public stance was for obedience to the law in all things, including the encouragement for all to be here legally, you could feel less concerned your church was encouraging any side-stepping of the laws.

One other point on this. More conservative and independent churches are more likely to have a strong stance on this and other like subjects.