Thread: FOXNEWS: Bush would consider pardon

I know that I am going to be in the minority here, and you all will think that I am crazy, but no, I don't think it is a bad precedent. Our country is already turning into the wild west, and the good guys are losing. By making an example out of a couple of Border Patrol agents, as they have to the Minutemen, only makes me more angry. I am almost willing to bet that these two men will serve more jail time than many of our rapist, drug dealers and illegals. I know what you are saying, but I don't agree with that anymore. It is already a free for all, especially on the border. We would rather see a little old lady rot in her apartment freezing from the cold, without food, and too fearful to step foot outside of her home, than to execute known criminals who are keeping her there. That, my friend, is a sad day. Let's start helping the people that make this country great, and stop protecting the dregs of humanity.

Originally Posted by Neese

I know that I am going to be in the minority here, and you all will think that I am crazy, but no, I don't think it is a bad precedent. Our country is already turning into the wild west, and the good guys are losing. By making an example out of a couple of Border Patrol agents, as they have to the Minutemen, only makes me more angry. I am almost willing to bet that these two men will serve more jail time than many of our rapist, drug dealers and illegals. I know what you are saying, but I don't agree with that anymore. It is already a free for all, especially on the border. We would rather see a little old lady rot in her apartment freezing from the cold, without food, and too fearful to step foot outside of her home, than to execute known criminals who are keeping her there. That, my friend, is a sad day. Let's start helping the people that make this country great, and stop protecting the dregs of humanity.

Okay, so let me get this straight. People here are ripping George W. Bush left and right, accusing him of conspiring against the People and even of being a foreign mole, but YOU think it would be a good idea if he were to routinely pardon the misdeeds of his own operatives in the event that they are made to face justice and are duly convicted. Is that right?

Wow. Is there no rational middle ground here any more?

By all means no Crocket, let's make sure we give the benefit of the doubt to the scummy drug dealers not to our border guards, that just would not sit right with our Liberals and our PC Americans.

Neese, you are not alone. IMO just because "proceedure" may not have been followed exactly by the book, resulting in these two agents being convicted DOES NOT mean it was morally correct or that real justice was served here. This scumbag gets away on a technicality? Then turns around and repeats the offense? His actions do not bear out the treatment he has received. Again, rewarding illegal activities while we send two men away for years because they didn't "follow proceedure". Heck, while we are on this let's all make sure we carry a copy of "Roberts Rules Of Order" to every rally and protest so we can make sure we "follow proceedure" when addressing these criminals that could care less what we think or what our steeenking proceedures are.

Originally Posted by jamesw62

President Bush Would Consider Pardoning Border Agents Convicted of Shooting Drug Runner

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244740,00.html


WASHINGTON — President George W. Bush left open the possibility of a pardon for two U.S. Border Patrol agents serving federal prison sentences for shooting a Mexican drug dealer as he fled and covering up the crime.

Bush said "there's a process for pardons" and the case has to work its way through the system. In an interview with KFOX-TV in El Paso, Texas, Bush said the White House will review the case, and he urged people to "take a sober look at the case."

"People need to take a tough look at the facts, the evidence a jury looked at, as well as the judge. And I will do the same thing," he said.

Several lawmakers have urged the president to pardon former Border Patrol agents Jose Alonso Compean and Ignacio Ramos for the shooting of Osvaldo Aldrete Davila, who retreated to Mexico after he was shot and later admitted he was transporting marijuana while in the U.S. illegally.

The agents began serving their sentences Wednesday — 11 years and one day for Ramos and 12 years for Compean. Both were fired after their convictions on several charges, including assault with a deadly weapon, obstruction of justice, and a civil rights violation.

Rancor over the convictions and sentencing of the agents has been simmering for months, and the two have become a cause celebre among conservatives and on talk shows. Their supporters have said they were defending themselves and have called them heroes. The agents' prosecution occurred as the issue of illegal immigration was being debated in Congress and amid campaigns for last November's midterm elections.

Rep. Duncan Hunter, a California Republican, introduced a bill Thursday calling for a congressional pardon of the agents. Congress has never issued pardons to anyone convicted of a crime, said Joe Kasper, Hunter's spokesman. But Kasper said Hunter believes there is enough ambiguity in the law on pardons to give it a try.

"Agents Compean and Ramos fulfilled their responsibilities as Border Patrol agents and rightfully pursued a suspected and fleeing drug smuggler. It is irresponsible to punish them with jail time," he said in a news release.

U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton took the unusual step of issuing a five-page document of the "myth vs. reality" of the case as the agents began serving their sentences.

The document covered everything from the claims that the former agents were just doing their jobs to reports that the shooting was at night when it actually happened about 1 p.m. on Feb. 17, 2005.

White House spokesman Tony Snow also seemed to support the agents' conviction, listing details of the case in a briefing with reporters Thursday. He said an officer hit Aldrete in the chest with a gun after he got out of his car and that "a lot of the allegations about a scuffle and discovering drugs at the scene and all that, they're simply not supported by the fact record of the case."

Texas Sen. John Cornyn said the Justice Department should have the chance to explain why the agents were prosecuted. Cornyn sent a letter to Vermont Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, asking for a hearing.

"I understand that the Justice Department believes all the facts have not come out on this prosecution and would welcome the opportunity to explain its decisions. I believe such a public explanation and opportunity for questioning is necessary," Cornyn wrote.

Cornyn said he and Sen. Arlen Specter, who chaired the committee last year, investigated the case and that his office personally interviewed Sutton.

Just curious...if you run from a Police officer...and he tells you to stop..can he shoot you???

A more logical outcome would be to suspend teh border agents, not put them in jail

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by Neese

I know that I am going to be in the minority here, and you all will think that I am crazy, but no, I don't think it is a bad precedent. Our country is already turning into the wild west, and the good guys are losing. By making an example out of a couple of Border Patrol agents, as they have to the Minutemen, only makes me more angry. I am almost willing to bet that these two men will serve more jail time than many of our rapist, drug dealers and illegals. I know what you are saying, but I don't agree with that anymore. It is already a free for all, especially on the border. We would rather see a little old lady rot in her apartment freezing from the cold, without food, and too fearful to step foot outside of her home, than to execute known criminals who are keeping her there. That, my friend, is a sad day. Let's start helping the people that make this country great, and stop protecting the dregs of humanity.

Okay, so let me get this straight. People here are ripping George W. Bush left and right, accusing him of conspiring against the People and even of being a foreign mole, but YOU think it would be a good idea if he were to routinely pardon the misdeeds of his own operatives in the event that they are made to face justice and are duly convicted. Is that right?

Wow. Is there no rational middle ground here any more?

My allegiance is to the safety of our nation. I am not saying that I would take matters into my own hands, but if someone else does, and it is against someone with a criminal record, I am not going to protest their actions. I don't think that there is a conspiracy, and I don't think that the President is a mole. I would, however, like some form of explanation for the decisions being made concerning the border. We know that tax paying citizens who live on the border are being kidnapped, threatened, not only by drug cartels but the Mexican military as well. We know that Laredo is a war zone and that there is a price on our BP's heads. The National Guard has been threatend, and we know that parents have to carry a gun with them when they walk their children to the bus stop. Our government is completely aware of what is happening, I know this because I write them all of the time inviting them to bring their loved ones for a nice family vacation in the war zone. So far, no one has taken me up on it, I can't imagine why. By profession, you have to have a certain mindset, luckily I don't need to. Do any of these things resinate? Is that the United States that you want for your children?

Crocket,

I appreciate the rational way that you present your arguments and find myself agreeing with you most of the time.

However, I have a problem with the conviction of these agents, based upon the sworn statements of 3 jurors who claim to have been coerced into the unanimous verdict by the jury foreman. On this alone I believe that the agents in question deserve a new trial, preferably one in which ALL the evidence is allowed to be heard.

My 2 cents...

Originally Posted by nittygritty

By all means no Crocket, let's make sure we give the benefit of the doubt to the scummy drug dealers not to our border guards, that just would not sit right with our Liberals and our PC Americans.

That's a cheap shot. This trial was not about the crime of the drug dealer. The possibiliy of trying him went out the window when the officers failed to arrest him or even provide a description of him. They blew that case. This was about the crimes that the agents committed, and taking a cheap shot at me by pretending that my desire to see both sets of lawbreakers punished somehow equates to sympathy for the drug trafficker, particularly when I have already repeatedly stated that one of the most egregious things about the actions of the agents is that they PREVENTED the damned guy from being prosecuted, is unwarranted to the point that I believe you owe me an apology.