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  1. #1
    Senior Member AirborneSapper7's Avatar
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    House Dems From Florida: 'Opposed to mail-in campaign or any

    Re-vote picture clouds

    For a moment, it looked like party leaders were marching toward a Florida revote. But Obama's campaign signaled today that the mechanics would be an obstacle, and Florida's congressional delegation just took a hard line against a re-vote in a joint statement:

    Washington, DC – The Members of Florida’s Democratic Delegation in the U.S. House of Representatives issued the following statement regarding the seating of Florida’s delegates at the DNC National Convention this August.

    “We are committed to working with the DNC, the Florida State Democratic party, our Democratic leaders in Florida, and our two candidates to reach an expedited solution that ensures our 210 delegates are seated.

    “Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind.â€
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    Senior Member AirborneSapper7's Avatar
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    Comments (many - Many more at the link)

    At the rate Hillary is murdering the Democratic party, it won't really matter come August, anyway.

    Posted By: Monstertron | March 11, 2008 at 10:46 PM
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    Good, no it's time to get over it. The people of Florida and Mich. got screwed by their elected officials and the public can get their revenge when it is time for the officials who created this messs come up for re-election.

    Posted By: mikeblackbear | March 11, 2008 at 10:48 PM
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    Serious question. There are a lot of senior citizens in Florida. How do you prevent voter fraud with mail-in votes? Someone could possibly go into senior centers and "help" them fill out their forms and alter the results.

    Posted By: Jem | March 11, 2008 at 10:49 PM
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    Just give the Hillary, it was a fair election. FL DLC is on drugs. It's not going to happen.

    Posted By: TN Dave "Hussein" | March 11, 2008 at 10:50 PM
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    Time for Hillary to accept the Dodd solution. Everyone knows and the media is increasingly reporting that she could care less about MI or FL voters. She's interested in the supers. The DNC knows that and, therefore, she has no negotiating position here. 50/50 is the best she can do and is an enormous gift.

    Posted By: | March 11, 2008 at 10:50 PM
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    Great. I'm glad we all agree. A re-do would be the dumbest thing in the world. Face it, Florida and Michigan broke the DNC rules. They knew the penalty for doing so. We should not have to stand and count their votes.

    Posted By: Yellow | March 11, 2008 at 10:50 PM
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    A mail-in campaign would be disastrous. I know the Clinton campaign would disagree, but I still believe a caucus would be the cheapest and easiest way to go about doing any type of redo.

    Posted By: Tim | March 11, 2008 at 10:51 PM
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    Here is a re-vote system that would be cost effective, fair to people who already voted and would involve concessions from each campaign. Here is the plan: (1) assign florida's delegates via an equasion of 1.85 delegates (based on there being 185 pledged delegates) per percent point of the previous vote (Hillary would get about 92 (1.85x50%) and Barack would get 61 (1.85x33%)). The remaining (or john edwards) delegates (32) would be apportioned through a mid-May caucus. This gives voice to the people who already voted but also gives both candidates a shot at either widening or closing the gap based on current enthusiasm. (2) run a firehouse primary or caucus in Michigan. With less voters and less land mass than Florida, the costs would be lower and Michigan does not have a valid existing vote (Obama was not on the first ballot) to build out an existing equation from. When all is said and done - I would expect Barack to maybe pick up 5 delegates in a florida caucus and Hillary will win Florida by about 25 delegates. Barack will probably pick up 5 delegates in a michigan primary or caucus. So, when all is said and done, it is probably a net loss for Obama of 20 delegates. The cost of Florida would be about $5 million -- which the government may even want to help in paying since it will be a media and tourism boon for the state. Michigan will probably cost $10-12 million of which the state, the DNC and each campaign could split out the cost. The Clinton campaign should accept this as it will net her delegates and the Obama campaign needs to accept this to avoid any taint on what they expect to be a primary victory. Plus both sides need this settled going into a general election.

    Posted By: mark | March 11, 2008 at 10:54 PM
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    I'm a proud citizen of Florida and if I do not get a say in this primary season I will quit the democratic party and become an independent. Why should 6 million voters in FL and MI be punished for the actions of a few politicians? They want to count super-delegates but not regular voters? ridiculous

    Posted By: Jeff | March 11, 2008 at 10:55 PM
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    Screw Florida. They can't ever get it right no matter what we do for them.

    Posted By: Kirk | March 11, 2008 at 10:56 PM
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    The party leaders and superdelegates need to get involved, but they need to put a definitive end to this NOW while it's still somewhat amicable among Dems. Hillary needs to concede now. Some of these reasons... * She lost the Texas delegate race. Bill Clinton admitted if she lost either Ohio or Texas, that it would be over * Beginning of a very ugly campaign by the campaign's on the other's credibility * Just about impossible for Clinton to catch up in the delegate vote (the only math that matters), though she continues with her 'Huckabee' strategy in the race... * The longer this goes, and the more $$$ spent by each candidate means that less will be available for the general election - they will have 'tapped-out' their donors. * Interference of Rush Limbaugh Koolaid-drinking Republicans, evidenced by exit polls in Texas, Ohio and now Mississippi. The remaining primaries are becoming less and less significant as we continue in this process. * McCain is sailing along, gathering steam towards the general election; making appearances in Europe to increase his credentials. Just a few of the reasons...

    Posted By: Allen | March 11, 2008 at 10:56 PM
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    To re-emphasize the Florida solution: keep the vote as is and hold a caucus for the remaining delegates. This would be cost effective and probably let Obama catch up a bit in the delegate spread. He needs to agree to something sooner rather than later or he will not have many allies or votes in the state. He will loose maybe 20 delegates there but he needs to get it behind him.

    Posted By: mark | March 11, 2008 at 10:57 PM
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    If FL can't get its act together to do this, MI definitely can't as my state is a utter disaster these day with no good leadership on this issue. Granholm, Dingell et al wanted to deliver MI to Clinton, and now their machinations have backfired. I voted uncommitted in the MI primary, in support of Obama and also to protest the farce of an election. Most of my friends didn't vote at all. Granholm et al shouldn't be given the luxury of a do-over. This disenfranchisement argument is self-serving. I am one of the "disenfranchised" and still think our delegates should either not be seated per DNC rules (rules are rules and if defiant governors break them, they should pay the price) and divided 50/50 so they can be seated in Denver.

    Posted By: minna | March 11, 2008 at 10:58 PM
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    Just follow the rules and leave these jerks outside on the street. The rest of us followed the rules.

    Posted By: Jodo | March 11, 2008 at 10:58 PM
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    Those where the politicians you voted for.

    Posted By: mikeblackbear | March 11, 2008 at 10:58 PM
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    It's not relevant. In six weeks we'll likely be guaranteed a President McCain if HRC keeps up her line of attack.

    Posted By: Bill | March 11, 2008 at 10:59 PM
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    I think the Mail-In re-vote is a good idea, quite frankly, I don't have time right now to devote three hours to attend a caucus. Plus with mail in, more voters will have a say

    Posted By: | March 11, 2008 at 10:59 PM
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    Florida knew the consequences for screwing with its primary. Florida pays the consequences. I'm tired of their wet-diapered whining.

    Posted By: redheaded1 | March 11, 2008 at 10:59 PM
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    This could be an easy solution if John Edwards comes out in favor of Barack Obama. If so, his delegates join Obama's and it's a 50/48 split. in Michigan, a similar scenario can be accomplished all without a revote and all without altering the delegate counts too much.

    Posted By: todd | March 11, 2008 at 11:00 PM
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    I sympathize with the voters in Florida (I used to live there). But there are lots of rules regarding voting. The Florida state government knowingly chose to violate the regulations of the Democratic and Republican National Committees. Sometimes when you choose to break rules there are consequences. The poor citizens did not collectively decide to do this but their elected representatives did (and patted themselves on the back at their own cleverness). They were even warned by the DNC not to do it. The citizens of Florida can hold these elected officials accountable at the election booth this November. Folks in 48 other states abided by the rules. That is why their votes count and why the ones for Michigan and Florida are subject to disciplinary action. If I were to not follow the rules in Virginia, my vote wouldn't count either. I do not support giving these elected officials an out.

    Posted By: Ready in VA | March 11, 2008 at 11:02 PM
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    Jeff...are you waiting for me to talk you off the ledge or something? Beg you not to go? I could care less what party you vote for in the future.

    Posted By: boriskrunch | March 11, 2008 at 11:02 PM
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    Jeff --- Your remedy is not to change the rules. It is to vote your reps out of office next time they are up. That's the point of the system. They messed up so take them out of office.

    Posted By: | March 11, 2008 at 11:04 PM
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    The mail-in idea was absurd. This is a state that had a major election (Miami mayor) overturned because of absentee ballot fraud.

    Posted By: Midge | March 11, 2008 at 11:04 PM
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    you are a wise man Todd... if Edwards endorses Obama before Saturday, this thing is moot anyway since his 14 delegates would go to Obama from Iowa after today's bloodbath for HRC, ya gotta think Richardson and Edwards have to be thinking of ending this thing for the greater good

    Posted By: Rich, Orlando | March 11, 2008 at 11:06 PM
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    Anyone who thinks Florida can just conjure up a first time ever used mail-in vote and have it work right is severely deluding themselves. And I bet it would be African American votes that would be lost in the mail. Here's the solution: superdelegates line up behind Obama, ensuring his victory. Hillary can fight on if she wants, but Obama wins state after state. Then the delegates are seated for Obama. There is no other way. Nominate Hillary, and you find McCain talking up how the "Democratic" party nominee was the one who didn't win the majority of the delegates, popular vote, or states. Then she also loses the African American vote, as well as the youth vote, and goes down in flames.

    Posted By: commenter | March 11, 2008 at 11:11 PM
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    I am floored!!!! So the DNC came up with a rule that said, move primary - no delegates. Simple. Candidates agree no to campaign. Suddenly Dems don't like rules and want to change how things work. Somehow this sounds familiar. Dems don't like something they AGREED to and want to change the rules. How old are these people? Or maybe better said - what age of mentality do these people have? If you made a rule, FOLLOW it - Oh so sorry I forgot if you are left of center the rules don't apply to you. *SIGH*

    Posted By: petey | March 11, 2008 at 11:13 PM
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    Dr. Dean lacks control over the Dem Party and he lacks influence in the upper eschelon of Dem politics. Otherwise this idiocy of what to do about Florida and Michigan would have been resolved weeks ago. Dr. Impotency is the one who needs to resign. Let's find someone who can motivate and direct the Dem Party. I would image that the reason Dean hasn't been replaced is because the entire nation is afraid to again hear his scream.

    Posted By: AAdeminnv | March 11, 2008 at 11:14 PM
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    Allowing her fake Florida victory speech to stand is EXCELLENT NEWS FOR HILLARY!!!

    Posted By: Scott Templeton | March 11, 2008 at 11:15 PM
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    Clearly the way the Democratic party chooses it's candidate is absurd. Who would want a party that has such a stupid system for choosing canditates running our country,

    Posted By: Andy | March 11, 2008 at 11:16 PM
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    If your parents tell you go rob a bank, and you get caught and sent to jail by the Sheriff. Now you want out of jail for robbing a bank, you are not mad at your parents for telling you to rob the bank, instead you made at the Sheriff for catching you and putting you in jail. Now if the Sheriff let's you out of jail, you would have beat the system. But, if you kick your parents azz when the come in visit you in jail, you understand why you are in jail. MI and FL voters need to kick their local government azz, and chalk this up as you can't break the rules. If you don't understand I'm sorry, but your voices will be heard, after the nomination. You have lost your chance to participate in that process, but you are welcome to the party.

    Posted By: TN Dave "Hussein" | March 11, 2008 at 11:16 PM
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    The Democrats don't care about rules. Just ask Doug Forrester -- he'll tell you all about how the Dems changed the rules and got Lautenberg a Senate seat even though it was too late to change candidates. And the N.J. Supreme Court held it up. The Dems only play by the rules when it suits them. When it doesn't, they throw them out and talk about "fairness" and other such subjective nonsense.

    Posted By: Dave | March 11, 2008 at 11:16 PM
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    FL and MI broke the rules. They should pay the price. The people of FL and MI should then tell their representatives what they think of their decision in November.

    Posted By: Phil | March 11, 2008 at 11:16 PM
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    I am surprised by this--I actually think a revote in Florida helps Clinton more than Obama. The delegates will NOT be seated as is, and this was Clinton's opportunity to get a valid delegate lead....Surprising because the Florida politicians are generally in the tank for Clinton.

    Posted By: David | March 11, 2008 at 11:17 PM
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    Looks like Hillary will fall about 90,000 more votes behind in the popular vote tally today. She is getting clobbered 60% to 38%.

    Posted By: Ready in VA | March 11, 2008 at 11:17 PM
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    FL and MI would be in great shape if they had followed the rules. But now, they want their cake and eat it. Just forget about these states NOW. Secondly, I agree that if Billary continues the negative attacks (which they will), McSame wins. Billary have their own interest and don't care for anyone else's.

    Posted By: | March 11, 2008 at 11:18 PM
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    I am one of many Obamabots who is neither black nor young. I am a middle-aged white Independent. If Mrs. Bill Clinton somehow manages to steal this nomination you can bet that I will not be voting in November.

    Posted By: daninca | March 11, 2008 at 11:18 PM
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    If the Cartoon Characters who purport to be voters in Florida can't figure out how to vote in a regular election, who the hell will teach them how to use the US Postal Service for voting. They will probably send in their aunt's recipes,their state tax returns or their Home Depot rebate receipts and expect somebody to know that they were really intended to be a vote for the RE-DOER candidates.

    Posted By: Googie | March 11, 2008 at 11:18 PM
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    ba da ba da da, I'm lovin' it....

    Posted By: OzzyMoses | March 11, 2008 at 11:19 PM
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    Good then. A revote would simply be rewarding the states for breaking the rules. They did so to have greater influence on the nomination, and it would be granting them exactly that to let them now switch their vote to a time when it could make or break the race. Instead of punishment of any kind, a revote would basically let them decide the nominee. How retarded and unfair to every state that followed the rules. Split the delegates 50/50 or let them stay home.

    Posted By: Squeenter Squillo | March 11, 2008 at 11:19 PM
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    So what she is saying is that they want their votes to count for Hillary although noyone cmapiagned there but her she knew when she went down there it was going to come to this and they would manhandle the party to get Obama Shutout..they are sickenin with their Tammany Hall politics..there are 2 sets of rules one for them and if Barack gains advantage they will change the rules again Her broadcasting this dream ticket is trying to make people believe that he has agreed to be her #2 and vote for her anyay cause she will pick him..The CLinton Regime thins we are all stupid...I hope they fight till November then game over. By the way what ever happened to Vince Foster? Poetic Justice that Spitzer and her are linked she can't get away from the Womanizers who may answer her phone at 3am

    Posted By: phil | March 11, 2008 at 11:19 PM
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    For those of you counting at home tonight, Mississippi will just about cancel out her popular vote victory in Texas.

    Posted By: Ready in VA | March 11, 2008 at 11:19 PM
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    FL and MI violated the rules and knew the consequences, so why should the DNC go out of its way to help these states now. The voters in those states should blame the DNC they should blame their state officials for what they did. Just don't vote for these guys when they come up for re-election, simple as that.

    Posted By: Trevor | March 11, 2008 at 11:20 PM
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    And the Democrats are going to run the county?

    Posted By: Dan, St. Louis | March 11, 2008 at 11:21 PM
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    Yes, leave it as it is. But irregardless of Al Sharpton remarks. All voters had a chance to vote. I got out of my sick bed and went and voted. At least I was smart enough not to believe everything I am told, if Al Sharpton was, then I put it as his problem. Seat the delegates as is. All candidates were on the ballot.

    Posted By: tzada | March 11, 2008 at 11:21 PM
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    Florida voters are such idiots they should be barred from voting in any election. Remember the hanging chads, the accidental votes for Buchanan, etc.. They are idiots down there - sun-baked brains!

    Posted By: ian twolan | March 11, 2008 at 11:23 PM
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    This is a win-win for Hillary. She's either going to get the nomination or screw it up so bad for Obama, McCain will win, giving her another chance to run in 2012. When are people going to realize that the Clintons are self serving and don't give a damn about anyone else but themselves?

    Posted By: | March 11, 2008 at 11:23 PM
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    Florida and Michigan approved the rules then unilaterally decided they were going to break them with impunity. The only fair thing is to deny their delegates a seat. Otherwise all future elections will be wrecked by states leapfrogging over each other in an attempt to be the first to hold a primary. The seating of delegates is the only hammer the DNC has for enforcement. Use it. Florida and Michigan, quit your whining. You broke your own rules, be honorable enough to take your medicine.

    Posted By: UncleWilly | March 11, 2008 at 11:24 PM
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    It's the Bush's (Jeb & George) fault. Send in the army of lawyers again.

    Posted By: Mike M | March 11, 2008 at 11:24 PM
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    Florida screws up all the time so screw them is my vote.

    Posted By: | March 11, 2008 at 11:24 PM
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    Since when can the DNC tell any state when they can have primaries,What happened to States Rights? No do-overs, no mail-ins, Divide the delegates 50/50...The DNC screwed voters starting in 1982 with superdelegate nonsense and caucuses...Wake up Democrats, your own party cuased this mess, and Hillary stayed on the Mich. ballot as her ultimate firewall.

    Posted By: reginamae | March 11, 2008 at 11:24 PM
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    Why are latte democrats so opposed to seating Florida and Michigan? Do they really want both states to go Republican in November? I am surprised they don't convince Obama to settle for VP and unite now. I am afraid tomorrow it will be too late.

    Posted By: Bostonian | March 11, 2008 at 11:26 PM
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    If there is a recount, the dnc should have to bear the cost, not the public, as they are the reason for the recount.

    Posted By: tmhloans | March 11, 2008 at 11:27 PM
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    Florida and Michigan knew the rules. They broke 'em. They should pay the price for breaking the rules. Rules have to mean something.

    Posted By: Mick Smith | March 11, 2008 at 11:28 PM
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    "They want to count super-delegates but not regular voters? ridiculous" Duh, why do you think the Dems came up with the SuperDs in the first place. Cause they don't believe the people can vote correctly. They are the just in case the people screw up, they can vote the right way. Duh.

    Posted By: idosee | March 11, 2008 at 11:29 PM
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    hillary should run on a 3rd party ticket, maybe then she'll get a little respect

    Posted By: doug | March 11, 2008 at 11:29 PM
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    I am from Florida, and we were treated just fine by our elected officials. We were screwed by the Democratic National Committee who disenfranchised us. No from the national Democratic leadership has been able to justify why the state of South Carolina must vote before Florida which was the basis of the penalty. Also, the Republicans found a way to count the Florida Republican delegates. Why couldn't the Democratic Party have done the same thing?

    Posted By: Steve | March 11, 2008 at 11:31 PM
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    The solution is simple: All the rest of the superdelegates endorse Obama. "Uncommitted" in Michigan go to Obama. Then Clinton can take her bloody delegates from Florida and Michigan, they all get seated, and it has no influence on the end result. The worst possible outcome for the Dems would be a challenged re-vote, rife with controversy and problems.

    Posted By: Tom | March 11, 2008 at 11:31 PM
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    No recount. the people are not & were not "disenfranchised" of their vote. the fl dem party broke the rules. the people who didn'r vote because the "thought" their vote wouldn't count are stupid for Not Voting. Deal With It. They Screwed UP.

    Posted By: john q public | March 11, 2008 at 11:32 PM
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    At this stage, Hillary's presidential aspirations require that her core constituency and significant democratic voting bloc, Career-Minded Older White Women, are too resentful to support Obama thus leading to McCain's election. To accomplish this end, Hillary remains a candidate until Superdelegates officially nominate Obama.

    Posted By: andy | March 11, 2008 at 11:32 PM
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    "No do-overs, no mail-ins, Divide the delegates 50/50..." WHAT? How is that fair to the voters who voted for Hillary by a majority. Like the other guy said, split according to the actual vote. In MI you need a redo cause folks were not on the ticket. HC knew this was gonna happen, that is why she made sure she was on the ticket. Who didn't see this one coming?

    Posted By: idosee | March 11, 2008 at 11:32 PM
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    Come on,Floridians. You should have taken to task your legislators in Tallahasee when they perpetuated this hoax on you. It is to late to protest now. Why weren't you folks marching on the state capitol when the subject of changing your primary date? Could it have been some urgent need to appear relevant after all the voting fiascos down there? You couldn't manage to punch a chad out of perforated card; you lead the nation in the idiocy of mail-in elections. It's your own fault Florida so stop looking for the rest of the nation to bail you out again. I'm all for excluding Florida from all future elections. We will count your vote as "Present."

    Posted By: Malo Hombre | March 11, 2008 at 11:32 PM
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    Who ever said New Hampshire has to be first? What is it written in stone or something? Florida has proven it is much more important than New Hampshire. Florida should be first. Who cares what New Hampshirites think? They're a bunch of lefties anyway.

    Posted By: CallMeIshmael | March 11, 2008 at 11:32 PM
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    I suggest Florida be removed from the Continental United States. It has become a very annoying state.

    Posted By: Bart Simpson | March 11, 2008 at 11:33 PM
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    Even as a Michigan voter, I have no qualm about punishing Michigan and Florida for violating the delegate selection rules. Nor do I feel bad about ignoring the voters. They abandoned their right to complain when they sat idly and allowed their elected representatives to violation the DNC rules. That said, I don't believe it is in the Democratic party's strategic interest not to seat the delegates. I fear that either state may vote Republican in the fall if it appears that the Democratic party didn't count their votes. Although this reaction is unjustified, nevertheless I feel many voters might jump ship for McCain. I don't believe either election was fair (Obama's name wasn't on Michigan's ballot, and no campaigning in Florida disadvantaged Obama much more than Clinton due to her name recognition), so I would prefer a redo of some sort. Having lived in Oregon, the mail in system takes time to organize, so I doubt Florida or Michigan can do it. If a revote doesn't take place, the democratic party should allocate the pledged delegates, and then make the superdelegates from those states commit voting for whichever candidate they must in order to ensure the pledged delegate allocation does not upset the results of the other legit elections. If enough pledged delegates don't exist, then a penalty may be applied to either state (i.e. reduce their delegates by x%). This solution would disallow MI and FL's elections to alter the result achieved by other states, but also not alienate the voters of those states.

    Posted By: Sean | March 11, 2008 at 11:33 PM
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    This is the party that wants to run your health care???

    Posted By: Mike | March 11, 2008 at 11:33 PM
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    Why not reduce the number of delegates needed to get the nomination by the number of delegates in MI+FL ? Then the race is realistic given the revised playing field. I wonder why no one is talking about this...

    Posted By: Mike | March 11, 2008 at 11:33 PM
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    You can bet on one thing, if HRC steals this nomination, I will start a grass-roots effort to campaign aganist Hillary in the Fall. Advice to camp hillary, concede an try again someday. The DNC is bigger that Hillary.

    Posted By: freda | March 11, 2008 at 11:34 PM
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    If the Florida delegates do not get seated, I'll be voting for Nader or McCain.

    Posted By: Mark from MO | March 11, 2008 at 11:34 PM
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    This is for mark, posted March 11, 2008 at 10:54 PM Michigan is 96,810 sq miles, Florida is 65,758 sq miles. How convenient of you to "adjust" the facts to fit your argument. But that?s typical these days, especially among the career politicians.

    Posted By: Nockway | March 11, 2008 at 11:35 PM
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    Since both Clinton and Obama were on the FL primary ballot, let the results count as recorded. Since only Clinton was on the MI primary ballot, do a Democrat-only primary paid for by both candidates in a special Saturday vote. Then seat all the delegates based on the results.

    Posted By: Shellcase | March 11, 2008 at 11:37 PM
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    It was the Clintons that made the big stink about the rules that the DNC set down. The Clintons just screwed the Democratic party with this one. I can not stand how selfish the Clintons are!

    Posted By: ExDemocrat | March 11, 2008 at 11:38 PM
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    Don't seat them. I'd like to see FL an MI go for Republicans in November. hehe

    Posted By: Dr. Evil | March 11, 2008 at 11:39 PM
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    Make every vote count!

    Posted By: Eugene | March 11, 2008 at 11:41 PM
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    commenter- where are you? I have questions.

    Posted By: kelly | March 11, 2008 at 11:41 PM
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    Sorry. The rules matter. Why doesn't Missouri just go ahead and hold their primary for the 2012 election next Tuesday?

    Posted By: Lawnchair | March 11, 2008 at 11:42 PM
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    Hillary is still in for two reasons: Power and Ego. I voted for Obama and will do so in the gerneral, I think he can change the tone. If HRC is on the ticket, Sen. McCain gets my vote. Do the math...and move on Hillary.

    Posted By: RepublicanJohn | March 11, 2008 at 11:42 PM
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    All of this discussion is going to be mooted by the PA primary results. The best analysis so far says BHO will win PA by a slight margin over HRC. See Barrons's 10MAR08. By 22APR08 the math says BHO will be the presumptive nominee. All complaints/objections will be reviewed on 23APR08. And one more point, isn't it about time the American Voter does something (such as vote the *******s out) about the lies we have from our elected officials: from GWBush to Elliott Spitzer to the folks in FL and MI who disenfranchised the democratic voters? Why should we trust our pocketbooks and our futures to these bozos? My barber has to take a test to be licensed to cut my hair. Why don't these crooks have to show us they understand the constitution and basic economics to "represent" out interests? All they do it represent their interests at our expense.

    Posted By: tarkine | March 11, 2008 at 11:42 PM
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    JeM; That is exactly what Hillary's people would do.

    Posted By: RYAN | March 11, 2008 at 11:42 PM
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    I am quitting the Democratic Party in Florida. Howard Dean and his DNC can save the expense of sending their next mailer to my home. I took the time to get up early and voted once already. I don?t think I need to do it again old crazy Howard. I plan to sit out this election until someone in the party grows up or grows a set of cojoines. Maybe by 2012, the party will have a grownup in charge.

    Posted By: Tommy | March 11, 2008 at 11:42 PM
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    It's funny reading folks say, "I'm quitting the Democrat Party and becoming an Independent!" Big deal. There's really no difference between the two.

    Posted By: Robin B | March 11, 2008 at 11:42 PM
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    For Googie: Floriduh don't got no income tax. We like it like that. It is just the Democrats don't know how to vote. I've voted in Floriduh for almost 30 years and have never had a problem... except if you count the electioneering conducted by Democratic voters INSIDE the polls at EVERY ELECTION!

    Posted By: Tmi | March 11, 2008 at 11:43 PM
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    DNC wants to count a cornfield wasteland like Iowa but not Florida or Michigan? Get used to President McCain.

    Posted By: | March 11, 2008 at 11:45 PM
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    With all this circus act nonsense can anyone tell me what these people stand for? She is ordering mandated, socialized medicine for everyone, whether they want it or not, and he wants to cripple the Patriots Act and invite all those Taliban fighters at "Gitmo" to take up residence in American prisons on the mainland. She is really a "One Note Johnny" with her HealthCare mantra. Didn't she make a royal mess of that in 1993, such that Newt and Repubicans took over the House? I suppose when we are all living in tents and eating sea weed, atleast we will have doctors feeding us penicillin to ward off infections from sewage.

    Posted By: Danny Garret | March 11, 2008 at 11:45 PM
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    The Michigan Democratic Party has been trying to reform the Democratic Presidential Selection Process for at least the last 12-14 years, by bringing to an end the DNC's discriminatory practices of giving preferences to voters from a few states over voters from most other states. The DNC has repeatedly said that they would reform the process to eliminate this built-in discrimination of giving preferential treatment to some voters over other voters just because of the state they happen to live in, but it was always wait for the next election. Well, Michigan finally said it was time to act and moved unilaterally to bring the discrimination to an end by moving up their primary. Now the hypocites from the DNC say Michigan broke the rules and the voters of Michigan will be disenfranchised. There are lawsuits already being put together over this disenfanchisement, which could lead to no Democrat at all being placed on the Michigan General Election Ballot in November, due to the disenfanchisement of Michigan citizens during the selection process. The same could hold true for Florida. Howard Dean should be fired for incompetence over this issue. Regards,

    Posted By: FLGibsonJr | March 11, 2008 at 11:46 PM
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    Bostonian - are you iNSANE? Ask Obama to settle now and take VP?? Are you CRAZY!! He is WINNING you idiot!!!!!! If anything the superdegs ought to come in and shut this thing down for Obama...so I don't blame the voters. I am sure as soon as Puerto Rico votes and this is settled with Obama ahead in pledged degs and popular vote the Pelosi's et all will call for the superdegs to declare and shut this thing down....Hilary is evil and she must be stopped......as for FLA and Michigan...No REVOTE...Obama can take Mich in the fall (NAFTA) and you dont need Florida to win the general for the DEMS...there are other ways to get the nec electoral votes.

    Posted By: michaellinphilly | March 11, 2008 at 11:46 PM
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    They want to count party elites but not regular voters who came out to vote in record numbers? Since democrats don't care about us here in Michican, I will vote for McCain

    Posted By: Sarah | March 11, 2008 at 11:48 PM
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    The rules were set before the game began and the players agreed to the rules. Once the outcome of the game starts to change, the rules can't be changed or chaos will ensue.

    Posted By: Vanessa | March 11, 2008 at 11:48 PM
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    If the Democratic voters in these two states are so juvenile and nuts to take it out on the nominee in the general election, then they are idiots the same as those that voted for Bush last time around. They're States can go McCain for all I care. Obama will win without them.

    Posted By: John D | March 11, 2008 at 11:50 PM
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    Mark from Missouri..I am sad that if florida gets no degs you are voting for Nader or McCain. I am from PA and if my dog doesn't get of the couch now I am voting for Nader or McCain. That's how silly you sound.

    Posted By: michaelinphilly | March 11, 2008 at 11:50 PM
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    With all due respect to our friends in Florida (and Michigan) who are complaining about disenfranchisement, get a life. You went to the polls KNOWING your vote would not be counted and you went ANYWAY! What were you thinking? You're behaving like spoiled brats looking for attention you don't deserve and you're just annoying the rest of us.

    Posted By: Tom | March 11, 2008 at 11:51 PM
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    Al Giordano over at The Field has already exposed the fact that Florida State law prohibits mail in elections. Clinton doesn't want a caucus. There is no time or money to set up a primary. So, Florida and Michigan will simply not be counted. All this baloney about it hurting chances this Fall is just that, baloney. Who here has even met a party delegate much less voted based on how they were treated at the Convention? Assinine argument. If you would vote McCain over Obama or Clinton because of this you need your head examined.

    Posted By: Patrick | March 11, 2008 at 11:51 PM
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    The answer is simple for both Florida and Michigan: They have not had primaries. The party sets the rules for primaries and the party said whatever it was they had, it wasn't a primary. But nothing prevents them from having a primary if they want one. So have one. I assume the party pays for primaries so, if they want a primary in Florida, they will have to pay for it. Ditto Michigan. This really isn't that complicated,folks. If Florida and Michigan want a primary, they will have to actually hold one.

    Posted By: davis rosen | March 11, 2008 at 11:52 PM
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    A redo won't settle anything. A best case for Sen. Clinton if Obama gets 30 percent of the Michigan-Florida delegate votes and Sen. Clinton gets 60 percent is she still ends up not quite tied. And that's based on Sen. Clinton outpolling Sen. Obama by 30 delegates in the March 11-June 3 primaries. Could happen, but I wouldn't count on it. Also, the Michigan vote is not legitmate at all. The other candidates withdrew, and Clinton tried to withdraw but her withdrawl form arrived a day late and without her signature. Come to think of it, is that who you want answering the red phone at 3 a.m.?

    Posted By: Mike F | March 11, 2008 at 11:52 PM
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    Not giving Florida and Michigan a place at the convention and having the delegates (pledged and supers) seated is NOT democratic! Most arguments here are against seating FL and MI, because these states would benefit Clinton. If FL and MI were "in the tank" for Obama, I guarantee you the tone of most of the blog commentary here and in general would be totally different, i.e., pro- Revote.

    Posted By: SB | March 11, 2008 at 11:52 PM
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    "'When I use the word "democracy",' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.' - Through the DNC Looking Glass

    Posted By: Jim | March 11, 2008 at 11:53 PM
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    these dems can even run there own primary process, and we should turn our health care over to these people....please

    Posted By: pianoman | March 11, 2008 at 11:53 PM
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    Aaaw... Poor Obambi's not happy.

    Posted By: Peter | March 11, 2008 at 11:54 PM
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    Howard wants Michelle Obama as first lady, now that?s a whopper. ?We spend between the two kids, on extracurriculars outside the classroom; we?re spending about $10,000 a year on piano and dance and sports supplements. And summer programs? Do you know what summer camp costs?? In 2005, Mrs. O?s salary was $316,962 at the University of Chicago Hospital. She?s a lawyer, not a doctor. Obama the junior senator earns over $160K that year. If you are struggling to make ends meet on a half-million a year ? a 1040 that puts you in the top 2% of Americans ? then the problem is you, not the country. Michelle was never proud of America when her husband was elected to the state legislature or even the United States Senate, and America is, she said, ?just downright mean.? Dear Michelle: Have Oprah endorse your plan and become a master like her and your husband on praying on other peoples insecurities with a 10-step "Change the World - Change your Life" program. I voted once for Hillary. It Howard cannot accept Florida's vote, and Hillary's victory, then Howard can be "reassigned, pink slipped, down sized, redirected, off to pursue personal interests, etc."

    Posted By: Tommy | March 11, 2008 at 11:54 PM
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    Just imagine that I told my son that if he chooses to defy the agreed upon rules of our home the penalty will be to be grounded from using the car for a month. He then deliberately and brazenly defies the house rules. I ground him from driving. He pompously DEMANDS that I let him drive. What kind of a parent would I be if I gave in to his demands? He knew the rules, knew the penalty for braking the rules, chose to break the rules, and must live with the consequences of his choices. What am I missing here?

    Posted By: Michael | March 11, 2008 at 11:54 PM
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    Wow! Is this hemming & hawing for picking the Democrat nominee what we can expect from the DNC if they take the White House? Kinda scares me (along with having to pay an extra $2000 in taxes a year as a member of the middle class if they have their way...pro middle class my ***). Changing the rules whenever and however it helps whoever's on top...sickening.

    Posted By: Gord | March 11, 2008 at 11:54 PM
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    A 50/50 split is the reasonable solution to this mess. Give Hillary her 20 delegates from FL, that is, after all, all she is after... don't be mistaken FL and MI voters, it is not your vote. Wake up America.

    Posted By: Dan | March 11, 2008 at 11:54 PM
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    It's past time for the SD's to end this pandering to Hillary, and if there is no solution remotely equitable or satisfactory to Obama who after all IS the current front runner, then the DNC needs to go back to the original penalty and enforce it that NO MI/FL DELEGATES SHALL BE SEATED! This is all a pro-Hillary mirage that should have never been allowed to develop in the first place.

    Posted By: Rita | March 11, 2008 at 11:54 PM
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    Hillary Clinton is destroying the Democrat Party. I'm lovin' it!

    Posted By: lol | March 11, 2008 at 11:55 PM
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    The 2005 DNC Report of the Commission on Presidential Nomination Timing and Scheduling said the Commission ?favored an approach that would preserve the first in the national status of Iowa and New Hampshire but address the diversity, representation and participation issues in a meaningful way by including other states in the prewindow period in a schedule in which they would play an important role alongside Iowa and New Hampshire.? So the DNC said that Nevada and SC would be their diverse states (instead of Florida and Michigan), stating "that the caucus be held in Nevada, a state with a significant and growing Latino population, a sizeable Asian American and Pacific Islander community, and strong organized labor presence; and that one primary be held between the New Hampshire primary and the opening of the window on February 5, and that that primary be held in South Carolina, a state in which African Americans represent a significant share of the Democratic electorate." So we can blame the disenfranchisement of the voters of Michigan and Florida on the DNC's attempt to be politically correct.

    Posted By: Paul | March 11, 2008 at 11:55 PM
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    Hillary is an amazing leader, lets put this country into the hands of a proven leader and stop placing bets on unproven, inexperienced like politicians like George W. Bush and Barack Huessein Oboma. Seats the deligets as voted by the people on Super Tuesday.

    Posted By: Bill Clinton Jr. | March 11, 2008 at 11:57 PM
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    Imagine if Florida was Obama country, Obamabots would be freaking out for its votes to be counted. Lol

    Posted By: | March 11, 2008 at 11:57 PM
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