Thread: NAFTA Backfires on the Bush Administration

Below is a transcript from the November 23rd Lou Dobbs show:

ROMANS: The Bush administration tonight is under attack for caving into Canada in a trade dispute that has damaged relations between the two nations. The United States has agreed to a plan that would virtually eliminate tariffs on more than $7.5 billion worth of Canadian lumber imports and the U.S. lumber industry is outraged. Kitty Pilgrim reports.

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Timber. The Commerce Department was failed by Canada, accepted a NAFTA panel ruling to cut duties on Canadian lumber, even though the U.S. government thinks the ruling is wrong. "We have serious concerns about the panel's decision. However, consistent with our NAFTA obligations, we have complied with the panel's instructions," said Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez in a statement.

It's been a bitter fight. Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin needs the victory to boost his political standing at home. And the U.S. lumber industry is adamant they need protection from subsidized Canadian lumber.

DALE RIDDLE, COALITION FOR FAIR LUMBER IMP.: If it can't be fixed, what it does, it eventually destroys our industry. We can compete with anybody in Canada on a day-to-day basis if we're on the same playing field. But we can't, in fact, compete with the Canadian government.

PILGRIM: The rhetoric has been so heated, on a recent visit to Canada, Condoleezza Rice was begging for everyone to lay off the apocalyptic language. Sorting out the lumber for the trees, the United States argues that Canada's subsidizes its industry, so the U.S. collects duties, about 16 percent, on the lumber that comes into the country from Canada.

Canada says that's in violation of trade agreements, and wants a $5 billion refund. Complicating the issue, dueling trade organizations, World Trade Organization ruled that the U.S. duties on lumber are within international guidelines. But a NAFTA panel rules differently.

PILGRIM (on camera): Now, the Commerce Department could appeal the ruling. They still argue that Canada subsidizes the industry. The Canadian government, however, has to refuse to negotiate on this issue. They clearly value the political victory for their own voters, more than the Canadian relations with the United States.

Honestly! What does this mean in laymens terms for the USA and the lumber industry?

What it means is that it puts the US lumber industry out of business because they can't compete with duty-free lumber from Canada. What their argument is is that Canada SUBSIDIZES THEIR lumber industry but the US doesn't so it creates an unlevel playing field for OUR lumber industry. This argument has been going on for quite awhile and, because of NAFTA, our lumber industry will just be destroyed. It will LOWER the price of Canadian lumber coming into our country.

I have a very good friend who owns a logging business, thinning and clear cutting in Washington State.

Here is how it goes. If you want to cut logs on Federal land (National Forest) you must pay a "stumpage fee" this runs about 700 dollars per 1000 board feet. The whole area is "cruised"(assessed) and the price for cutting the logs is known ahead of time. This fee is concurrent to what people are getting for raw logs on private land.

The crown owns 90% of timberable land in Canada and stumpage fees rarely exceed 200 dollars, sometimes with right grease and connections, there are no fees at all. In canada there is no requirement for replanting in many places. In Washington it is required, without exception. An addtional cost to American producers. Some of the worst environmental catastrophies borne of logging have occured in canada, where they rarely scientifically log, it is mostly a pillaging affair. Not what you might have thought, eh?

America has maintained that the low stumpage fee which is not in line with market reality, to be a government subsidy, hence the 27% tariff (began there, I believe the rate is 13% currently) on finished wood products, studs and such. Raw logs still enter our country from canada with no tariff and are processed here, often by lumber companies using illegal alien labor.

Anyway nafta courts have ruled against us for quite a while and the US under timber lobby pressure have refused to recind the tariff or pay any of the tariff collected, back.

I guess we are going to now. We caved. It is about to get real tough for American producers as the price for raw lumber is LOW and will now be lower as a result of canadian finished goods entering the country at lower prices. Meanwhile understand that it is the big multi-national timber companies that play both sides of the border in this dispute. It is main reason they bought up all the canadian created and owned outfits. As a result the people of canada in the industry have seen their lumber production jobs and pulp mills go bankrupt close down. In the end it is the working guy who takes it in the end. Corporations rule our economic lives, and people lay powerless. Refer to the general strike to get power.

Now I don't need to tell anyone the price of finished lumber at the home cheapo. More of the corporate rip-off in action.

bush will never defend Americans cuz he isn't one, boston brahmin crown bastid is he. canada is part of the "dominion of britain"

dominion

minion=follower dominate=control

british dominion-= a haggle of controlled followers cheers glenn

That was a great explanation, natural--THANKS. The duty is currently 16% rather than 13%. So, that will be a very SIGNIFICANT slam to Americans in the lumber business. Yep--he and CONDI just FOLDED. Left AMERICA holding the bag once again.

From this news the duty/tariff will be removed entirely and the 4 odd billion dollars of duty collected til now held in escrow will have to be returned to the canadian producers. The TSX(canadas stock market) shot up like a rocket with the news.

Soooooo..... the duty will be paid to the "canadian producers", who are really multi-nationals, headquartered here there and everywhere. It is a shell game, first the tariff destroyed canadas production industry and the price of raw wood there crashed (price to you for studs went through the roof though, DIDN"T IT?), now it is our industries "turn" to get screwed, while the multi-nationals who bribe our "leaders" simply play this one off game like pinball. They make the money, and are always squealing about how little they make while they chop down our public forests for way less than they are worth. This is how the crown worked, it is what bush does for them also.

When I speak of the crown, I refer to the beast itself in canada and england, I also refer to the corporate historical method of controlling economy and stripping wealth from colonies(e.g. like the hudsons bay co, crown licensed) all the while avoiding liability while raping all land and people they come in contact with. It is this corporate model that we now confront in our fight against illegal immigration. It will never regulate itself, and corporations literally observe the people complaining, as common nuisances, that have always been present upon their schemes. They don't care, they don't have to, because the politicians are bought and paid for and have been for a very long time.

General Strike is the only thing they fear outside of direct violence and destruction of their material assets. They don't currently because...

A) the American people do not understand the history of this methodology, and can't recognize who their enemies are.

B)The American people have NO SOLIDARITY with their fellows, when come to economic social justice. We are such easy pickens for corporate raiding. Do you need anymore explanation than to see GM ditching 30,000 workers in North America? They aren't going to shrink people, they will take the hit and reform elsewhere, leaving the rusting hulk of this country and its soda drinkin fools behind. I claim the majoraty to have been brainwashed into abandoning their own self interests. It is almost laughable, don't say the S word(socialism) or you may be a communist.
Bunch of retards really. If you believe in lies then reality will never match up to what you believe. Consider that most people intellectually are NO MATCH for corporate schemesters. the Us public has to get over themselves, they do not look, or act very bright. Sorry, but c'mon already.

My Dad the immigrant says that it is due to the foggy notion that nearly all Americans have of becoming part of the very rich, and want no impediments on them, when that magical time comes. It is the reason we have no universal healthcare, no decent vacations, and little security in many other areas. It is just every man for himself, anything less and you are a fool. BTW every country with universal healthcare is outliving us by almost 2 YEARS!!! Can't that crappy social healthcare system, can it?

TOO MUCH TV MIND ROT!!! Live in lies and you will die.

STUDY THE GENERAL STRIKE! I'm waiting......g

Anyone pissed off yet?

It isn't the illegals fault. It is the inadequate American peoples fault.

If it walks like a duck, and squawks like a duck, it's probably a duck, and ducks get bagged and eaten. Illegal immigration is a symptom, of a chronic disease. Figure out the disease and the cure follows, symptoms disappear. It is the American people that ae infected either with stupidity or apathy, which to me, are near the same thing. g

QUOTE:
The Canadian government, however, has to refuse to negotiate on this issue. They clearly value the political victory for their own voters, more than the Canadian relations with the United States.

We have the nicest neighbors, don't we ?

I say give them the lumbar industry if they'll take these illegals off our back.

..........just kidding.....maybe not.

They don't have to negotiate, nafta upheld their "rights". This is the corporate shell game, the government leaders are little more than pawns.

For example the biggest producer in canada Weyerhauser, the biggest producer in the US, Weyerhauser. It is simple shell game, the leaders get their cushy lives and the working people wonder what is happening. Part and parcel of thinking you are smart(TV tells you, you are) when you are really someones chump. Who pushed nafta? Weyerhauser, and any other multi-national that could see the opportunity to screw Canadians and Americans, coming and going.

I can't keep this up, lose everything then maybe the country will wake up.

Better late than never

Keep playing the lotto Muricah. cheers glenn

XXX