Thread: How Unions Justify Illegal Immigration

Trouble - I agree completely. We are pawns in this too.

Although I have yet to figure out which way they were expecting the American public to act. Were they expecting we would roll over and take it or were they prepared for the outcry from American citizens demanding their government do the job they were supposed to be doing all along?

"Well put" pardon the pun on "roll over and take it" dlm1968. As for me, I plan on squirming around a bunch and taking a few of them with me.

I do get a creepy feeling about all this though. I do not and will not live in a third world country.

Trouble

It appears that the Mexico government has been more honest with their citizens than our's has been with us. They seem to have a better picture of what is going on and they also seem to go out of their way to convince everyone that their views are the right views. Well good luck to them because most of us are not buying it.

People like this woman are very dangerous because they appear to be educated and well-informed. Unfortunately for her, she is blowing a lot of smoke and most likely repeating things she has overheard.

Here's why:

She opens early on with an accusation of you using the strawman fallacy (defined here: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html). However, she was mistaken in her assumption, and she was actually trying to argue semantics.

To further prove her ignorance of the meaning of a strawman fallacy, she uses one herself.

OK call them criminals. Please also call someone arrested for running a red light a criminal or the children who sat down at lunch counters in the 1960s in the the segregated south. Slavery was legal and running away was a criminal offense, also helping those who ran away. Do you feel better calling them criminals? Now lets talk about laws. They are not sacred. They are political and they are made by people with interests. Our immigration laws are made to favor corporations which want maximum flexibility to hire and fire and to pay as little as possible. By getting stuck on the criminal thing, you miss the larger point.

My head hurts after reading that. Not only was it a strawman fallacy, but it was also a fallacy of guilt by association (defined here: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... ation.html) and the fallacy of two wrongs make a right (defined here: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... right.html), which you pointed out.

Her views are so hypocritical, it appears to be nothing other than ludicrous. Allow me to repeat her most idiotic statement: By getting stuck on the criminal thing, you miss the larger point. WHAT?!? Anyone claiming any loyalty what-so-ever to logic or rational thought could not possibly make such a claim. What she fails to realize is that she and people like her are ignoring criminal activity and instead focusing on sympathy for ingrates at the high cost to citizens. There is no logic in skipping crucial issues such as legality and national security in order to focus on a "larger point". For the American people, there is nothing larger than personal safety, which in this case is national security.

People like her use red herring fallacies (defined here: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... rring.html) to defend what they cannot defend by changing the topic and twisting the issue. If you attack illegal immigration from a standpoint of law and order, she will defend it by trying to discredit law by mentioning past laws, which have failed. If you attack illegal immigration on a scale of national security, she will try to defend it by focusing on the nonviolent Mexicans who cross the border for work, completely ignoring the legal aspect. If you attack illegal immigration from an economic standpoint, she will quickly ignore the harsh financial blow to the American people by throwing out wild claims of the issue being more global than local, therefore impossible to correct on a local or even national level.

It's all a bunch of excuses rather than reasons. Reasons are not excuses. Reasons can provide a nice foreground to prevent future failure if there are legitimate intentions of providing solutions. People like her would rather toss around a bunch of excuses and point their fingers anywhere and everywhere except for themselves for the sole purpose of continuing illegal and unethical activity without interruption from people who are negatively impacted.

You are right. She is a traitor!

The title of your post was why unions favor illegals........let me give you my reasons why.

The union LEADERS who generally earn $100,000 to $250,000 a year if not more are so in bed with the socialist communist DEMOCRATS that they
have forgotten union issues.

SEIU, this union, the SEIU, represents thousands of HISPANIC janitors and many of the leaders of this union, especially in California, or Mexifornia, are closet racists who belong to La Raza and other groups.

As a union memeber I can tell you that many of my co-workers, DEMOCRATS, are as angry about illegal immigration as we are here. I have heard some who hate BUSH praising TANCREDO, A REPUBLICAN.

The six figure a year union leaders ask us to vote for DEMOCRATS every year yet 41% of we RANK and FILE who pay these $100,000 a year salaries voted for BUSH!

Just as Bush is out of touch with America on immigration so are the UNION leaders but unions are NOT DEMOCRATIC. They are socialist if not communist!

If you were to ask most rank and file members how they feel on immigration they would tell you they like Tancredo. Now, the illegals at the SEIU and their Hispanic leaders would tell you different.

The unions were against NAFTA in 94 but now the LEADERS want amnesty because they think they can organizee these illegals working here. NOPE! The illegal immigrant is the new SCAB but the union leaders, being socialist, communist, and hypocritical, don't want to anger their Democratic Party friends.

What does it tell you when 41% of union memebers vote Republican and Bush?

Union are dying in this country if not pretty much dead and by allowing and wanting amnesty the union leaders are hurting their own cause.

The new SCAB is the illegal immigrant willing to undercut wages and benefits. The union leaders don't seem to understand this? You tell me why they love illegals so much?

OK call them criminals. Please also call someone arrested for running a red light a criminal or the children who sat down at lunch counters in the 1960s in the the segregated south. Slavery was legal and running away was a criminal offense, also helping those who ran away. Do you feel better calling them criminals? Now lets talk about laws. They are not sacred. They are political and they are made by people with interests. Our immigration laws are made to favor corporations which want maximum flexibility to hire and fire and to pay as little as possible. By getting stuck on the criminal thing, you miss the larger point.

My head hurts after reading that. Not only was it a strawman fallacy, but it was also a fallacy of guilt by association (defined here: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... ation.html) and the fallacy of two wrongs make a right (defined here: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... right.html), which you pointed out.

I detected veiled racism in her comments, and I tried to slam her as hard as I could. She was insulting in the extreme.

Her views are so hypocritical, it appears to be nothing other than ludicrous. Allow me to repeat her most idiotic statement: By getting stuck on the criminal thing, you miss the larger point. WHAT?!? Anyone claiming any loyalty what-so-ever to logic or rational thought could not possibly make such a claim. What she fails to realize is that she and people like her are ignoring criminal activity and instead focusing on sympathy for ingrates at the high cost to citizens. There is no logic in skipping crucial issues such as legality and national security in order to focus on a "larger point". For the American people, there is nothing larger than personal safety, which in this case is national security.

That's right, and I'm so tired of hearing the argument that illegal immigration from Mexico is totally benign, that all of those poor people just want to earn a decent living! As if the sterling character of each and every one of those millions of border violators could be vouched for! Preposterous!

It's all a bunch of excuses rather than reasons. Reasons are not excuses. Reasons can provide a nice foreground to prevent future failure if there are legitimate intentions of providing solutions. People like her would rather toss around a bunch of excuses and point their fingers anywhere and everywhere except for themselves for the sole purpose of continuing illegal and unethical activity without interruption from people who are negatively impacted. You are right. She is a traitor!

And she's a wolf in sheep's clothing, too. She has a hidden agenda. Union activists and so-called immigration advocates are in this fight for the political power they think they can derive from having illegal aliens overrun the country and dominate the electorate. But they're playing with fire. They cannot guarantee that these "new citizens" will vote in favor of their candidates and positions on the issues. Latinos are cultural conservatives. The duplicity of the Left Wing will come back to bite them in the ass, but by then it will be too late for all of us.

Just as Bush is out of touch with America on immigration so are the UNION leaders but unions are NOT DEMOCRATIC. They are socialist if not communist!

The unions were against NAFTA in 94 but now the LEADERS want amnesty because they think they can organizee these illegals working here. NOPE! The illegal immigrant is the new SCAB but the union leaders, being socialist, communist, and hypocritical, don't want to anger their Democratic Party friends.

Unions are dying in this country if not pretty much dead and by allowing and wanting amnesty the union leaders are hurting their own cause.
The new SCAB is the illegal immigrant willing to undercut wages and benefits.

Adelante, you are so right. I don't know if I'd call them communist, though. I would call unions crooked and definitely in bed with corporate interests. That unions protect the working man and woman against the abusive tendencies of corporate bosses is the biggest cock and bull story ever told. Maybe they did at one time, but union leaders were co-opted by corporate money a long time ago. Today, it's all about money and political power! Shameless, naked greed! And the American people, most of whom don't understand what's going on, are to be used as pawns in the Great Global Chess Game. I'm appalled at the number of people who seem not only willing but eager to sell this country to the highest bidder. You can practically smell the corruption every time you turn on the news or pick up a newspaper.

BTW, have you heard that the House has called for hearings on immigration reform? This is not good news. Expect a massive mobilization of the illegal alien lobby and lots of teary-eyed testimony about living conditions in Latin America.

This thread was begun after I heard a slanted immigration debate on a show called "Tell Somebody", broadcast weekly my local community radio station, KKFI-FM in Kansas City, Missouri. An email of complaint to the host, Al Lacona, resulted in my getting an "attack" email from union activist Judy Ancel, whose correspondence with me is the first post in this thread. I just got finished listening to the latest broadcast of "Tell Somebody." Guess who Al Lacona's guest was? You win the prize: It was Judy Ancel! The topic once again was illegal immigration, and Ms. Ancel reiterated all the distorted points that appeared in her email to me. In everything she said, not once did I hear any concern about the welfare of the US worker. She made no distinction between undocumented workers and the American working class, and characterized all opposition to the presence of illegal aliens as . . . guess what? You win another prize: Racism! The most outrageous thing she had to say came when Mr. Lacona asked her about the national security concerns you and I have in regard to porous borders. "No Latino immigrant has ever been arrested for terrorism," she snapped. I'm debating whether or not to respond to that statement with another email.

Ms. Ancel urged everyone listening to the show to contact her so that she could "educate" them on the immigration issue. I have no doubt that her appearance on today's broadcast of "Tell Somebody" was motivated by my email, and by others that opposed amnesty for illegal aliens. There was definitely more than a tinge of frustration in her voice as she spoke.

Here is my latest letter to Al Lacona's illegal immigrant-friendly radio show "Tell Somebody":

When I listened to Al Lacona's broadcast today, I just had to shake my head in disgust . . . another unbalanced show about immigration reform! It's unbelievable, the lengths to which illegal immigration apologists will go in order to justify their outrageous arguments. I guess their strategy is to tell lies over and over until people are finally persuaded they're true. And it's all in the hope that illegal aliens will support leftist political initiatives once they receive amnesty . . . an outcome that surely cannot be guaranteed. Even it could be, it's reprehensible to willingly compromise US national security and screw over native-born and naturalized US workers for the sake of invigorating stagnant progressive movements!

Not once did I hear Judy Ancel express concern for the plight of US workers; all her sympathy lay with undocumented labor. NAFTA hurt Latin America, she seems to argue, so it's only fair that North Americans should be hurt, too; and of course, Latin-American governments have no responsibility at all to provide for their citizens' welfare. Bulls***! Ditto for her scurrilous suggestion that anyone opposed to illegal immigration is a racist. In this age of heightened terrorist threat, most Americans don't care about the ethnic/racial background of border violators, or about which border is violated. They simply want the violations curtailed. As for Ms. Ancel's statement that no Latino immigrant has ever been arrested for terrorism, she's dead wrong! Terrorism doesn't just originate with organizations like Al-Qaeda. A small but significant number of Latino illegal aliens are violent gang members, drug runners, rapists and other types of criminals. Some of them are currently residing in our jails. These people definitely terrorize our communities. Latino illegal aliens who maim and kill people in traffic accidents and then run away for fear that police will discover their undocumented status are terrorists, too. I also consider Latinos who shut down our public schools and threaten economic boycotts to be committing acts of terrorism. What's more, it is not inconceivable that Al-Qaeda may begin recruiting in Latin America, if they haven't done so already.

Those of us who love the United States will not stand by and watch meekly while our land is invaded and our society is destabilized! We do not agree with those who want to cast aside US sovereignty in the interest of globalist agendas, and it doesn't matter whether their politics lean Left or Right. We will fight them. We will fight illegal alien amnesty. We will demand tighter border security. We will lobby for sanctions against unscrupulous employers who recruit undocumented workers. Immigrant advocates who are sincere about wanting to help poor economic migrants need the majority of the American people on their side. They'll get far less than majority support if they don't change their treasonous tactics!