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Thread: It's time to 'reimagine' birthright citizenship

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  1. #21
    Senior Member stoptheinvaders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post

    There was an article posted today that said ICE had removed 227,000 illegal aliens from the United States in 2017, up 10% from 2016. We have 30 million illegal aliens in the United States plus their anchor babies. How many years will it take ICE to remove 30 million illegal aliens at that rate? If we stopped the flow today, 100%, it would take our present number of ICE agents 120 years to deport all the illegal aliens already in the United States.
    Yeah, I did the math a long time ago, and cringe when someone insist on a few more ICE agents to solve this problem.
    Last edited by stoptheinvaders; 07-14-2018 at 07:59 PM.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Yeah, it all about the numbers. the only way to empty our vessel of illegal aliens is for the President to issue an Executive Order that triggers state and local law enforcement to act, they need the federal government to acknowledge the right to enforce, which they surely have, and authorize them to enforce, US immigration law that includes the searching for, arresting, processing in coordination with ICE, something they do every day, and detaining them until they are removed from the country and for those able to remove from the country like California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas to Mexico, they can haul them right down to the nearest Border Patrol station and BP can shoo them on out.

    Same with Mexicans from every other state. If they're Central American or farther south, then they can work that out, tell the countries to come pick them up, they've got 24 hours or we'll transport them and the countries will be billed the expense. For ones farther away across the great ponds, then that would need to coordinated through ICE and the military. Fly them to the nearest overseas US military base, then walk or drive them to the border of their own country for pick up by home authorities.

    When you get state and local law enforcement involved, you'll be amazed at how efficient and competently run this program will be. These wonderful law enforcement officers do so much with so little, they learned early on how to do it right, to do it smart, and to get r done.
    Last edited by Judy; 07-14-2018 at 07:01 PM.
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  3. #23
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  4. #24
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Oh sorry, it's Wong Kim Ark Case. My Chinese Memory isn't as good as it needs to be.

    What about the Wong case?

    JWK

  5. #25
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Absent a law, I think the US Supreme Court will use the Wong Kim Ark case as long-standing precedent on the subject of children born in the US to non-citizens until the Congress would pass a law to refine or restrict it.
    Wong Kim Ark has nothing to do with addressing the question if the wording in the 14th Amendment grants citizenship to children born to foreign nationals while on American soil, or grants citizenship to children born to illegal entrants while on American soil.

    The case is totally irrelevant to the legislative intent and meaning of "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" which is a constitutional limit placed on granting citizenship.

    JWK

  6. #26
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    I believe we should have the S.C. answer the question once and for all, rather than leaving it to a do nothing Congress. The preponderance of evidence, as to the legislative intent of "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" seems to conclude there is no need to alter the 14th Amendment, but simply enforce its documented "legislative intent' which gives context to the Constitution's text.

    The fact is, TRUMBULL, who was in attendance during the framing of the 14th Amendment, sheds light on this very question. He states:


    “The provision is, that “all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” That means “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” . . . “What do we mean by “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?” Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.” __ see SEE: page 2893, Congressional Globe, 39th Congress (1866) 1st column halfway down.


    And then there is John A. Bingham, chief architect of the 14th Amendment’s first section who considered the proposed national law on citizenship as “simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…” Cong. Globe, page 1291(March 9, 1866) middle column half way down.


    And less than five years after the 14th Amendment is adopted, the Supreme Court, In IN RE SLAUGHTER-HOUSE CASES, 83 U.S. 36 (1872) confirms the legislative intent of the amendment as follows:


    “That its main purpose was to establish the citizenship of the negro can admit of no doubt. The phrase, subject to its jurisdiction’ was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States“.

    And then, twelve years later, in 1884, JUSTICE GRAY delivered the opinion of the Court in Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94 (1884) in which he emphasizes:


    "Now, I take it that the children of aliens, whose parents have not only not renounced their allegiance to their native country . . . must necessarily remain themselves subject to the same sovereignty as their parents, and cannot, in the nature of things, be, any more than their parents, completely subject to the jurisdiction of such other country


    'This section contemplates two sources of citizenship, and two sources only,-birth and naturalization. The persons declared to be citizens are ‘all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.’ The evident meaning of these last words is, not merely subject in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiance."


    The fact is, “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” as found in the 14th Amendment, was intentionally designed to deny citizenship to a child born to a foreign national who enters our country and gives birth, unless the mother has been naturalized and takes our countries “Oath of Allegiance”. Doing so, makes that person “subject to the Jurisdiction” of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment.See our Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America

    "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

    Haven taken the above oath, one becomes subject to the jurisdiction of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment.

    I believe President Trump is on to something if he signs an EO changing public policy which denies citizenship to children born to aliens while on American soil, and especially denying citizenship to the children born to illegal entrants while on American soil. The ACLU would have a fit and run to have an injunction placed on the order which would immediately open the door to an expedited case before the Supreme Court.

    JWK
    Last edited by johnwk; 10-31-2018 at 08:50 PM.

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