Thread: Jubilee 2009 Forgive All Debts?

I do not have a strong stance for the forgiveness of debts, I just made this original post as an idea to be discussed.

There is the old saying "A lender nor a debtor be", but the way the costs of houses, cars, college, and health care have all gone up much faster than wages has placed Americans in a position where debt is required to try and reach the American dream.

Americans are more in debt than ever before in our nation's history. There are also biblical warnings about usury being sinful and I was just exploring what the bible had to say on these topics.

Those of you that proudly proclaim that you are debt free should keep in mind you are only debt free on a personal level.

Each of you owes your "full faith and credit" portion of the national debt which is over $30,000 per person so add that up for you and your spouse and any children in the home and you are looking at 60-90k. Then add in the state debt and city and county you owe. That puts most of you at around 35,000 per person in your household.

Then remember the entitlements which are monetary promises back by legislation that each of us has to pay unless the social security and retirement benefits were taken away. Some estimate each of us will be asked to pay over 100,000 for those.

Another thing is that while many of you looked at this issue discussion from your personal vantage points, I was hoping more of you would think about the national situation.

Many Americans have mortgages and in fact an historic number of Americans cashed out their home equity over the last few years to try and stay afloat financially.

So think of the average American that has ...

$35,000 in governmental debt
an average of $17,000 in credit card debt.
a mortgage with over $100,000 in remaining debt
residual student loans with over $10,000 of debt.

Since American savings rates went into the negative on average last year for the first time since the Great Depression, that means a huge volume of our fellow countrymen have a negative self worth of over $150,000 !

That's just a rough average, many are much higher.

If the estimates of entitlements are true and that many of us will need to finance government benefits coming due for welfare recipients and Baby Boomer retirees, these figures could easily spiral up to an average of 300-500,000 per American on Average.

If that is the case, then the government is about to need to extract much more from each of us than we would ever be willing to give and the threat of seizing your home, car, or putting you in jail for not paying your part of these debts may not be enough to assure tax compliance.

We currently have a voluntary tax system where the IRS will terrorize you and hunt you down, but it is still up to you if you decide to pay those tax bills or pay the rent or grocery bill. If you compile all of the hidden taxes we are paying already.

Tax Freedom Day was April 23 in 2008. That means the average American had to work 114 days into the 365 days of the year to cover their tax burden. This is roughly 31% of all of our labor is forcibly taken from us for a government that is failing us on almost every level!

Now, as many of us are learning, the financial interests that control DC more than the American public have cut deals behind the scenes called "Derivatives" where they have contracts on debt upon debt on our heads where no regulation has taken place and we cant even see the amount of exchange but it is estimated to be in the hundreds of trillions of dollars!

Im sure that all of you have noticed that the name of the game with products, food, gas, and the government has become PAY MORE FOR LESS!

What if the PAY MORE FOR LESS mathematics have reached a point where America's debt has reached such a level people are becoming nervous about mega Global wealth's ability to ever extract the future returns from us for these 'obligations'?

If that is the case then there are only two ways things can proceed.

Either A. The debts are absolved or renegotiated down to the benefit of the American public and detriment of the lenders or

B. They lock us down in a totalitarian nation where each of us is observed, tracked, controlled, and oppressed to the point that our life energy, our precious little time in this world, is harvested to feed those up the chain to such a degree that instead of fearing the IRS, you will will have to fear not being able to eat, work, or sleep with a roof over your head if you do not comply with the new financial order.

This is just theory and observation, but if you feel my concerns are valid which way do you think our rulers will proceed?

A or B?

If you want to say neither, then please present your alternative choices because I know of no others.

W

Originally Posted by alexcastro

Originally Posted by grandmasmad

Let me buy a motor scooter (They look like sooo much fun)....and a new car....and a whole bunch of Restaurant gift cards...and....and ....whatever else I can think of so I can be irresponsible....and put them all on my credit card.....and THEN you can claim a amnesty on all debt.....For once in my life I want to be irresponsible!!!!!!

I'm with you grandmasmad. We've been playing this whole game the wrong way. It doesn't look like it does pay to be responsible anymore.

Maybe I should do the same, I have about 200 grand available on credit cards, maybe I should take the $50,000 in cash advances pay off my mortgage with the money and charge a couple new cars and a new Harley or two and then I can file bankruptcy and start all over again. It drives me crazy to see people comming in to my job with crappy credit and they hardly pay anyone and they are looking to buy a $30,000 SUV. Then they get mad at me because I cant find a bank to buy them or the bank is asking for a couple thousand down which they should have because they dont pay their bills!

I don't really want to pay off the national debt, as I had no input into how the money was spent. Bush, Cheney, Bill Clinton, etc. should give up a portion of their personal wealth for their stupidity, especially with these free trade agreements. Perhaps debt repayment should be heaped on those (like Congress, who continually vote themselves raises), rather than on the American taxpayers who are struggling with job losses and putting food on the table, while the Treasury happily keeps having auctions of more debt.
Full faith and credit? For me, the faith is gone, and I hope my credit will be intact, not that it will do me any good when I am sleeping in the car or in a tent somewhere.

W said:

the way the costs of houses, cars, college, and health care have all gone up much faster than wages has placed Americans in a position where debt is required to try and reach the American dream.

I can attest to that W. We live hand to mouth, at best. You'd think with $13.00 hourly, my husbands pay seems like enough, but after it all, it barely covers needs. I suppose that in that, we have learned to either do without, or make due, and in the case of our nations potential financial depression, we could be the ones who do ok.

I would not be against something that had Biblical precedence, that is if the ones forgiven were hardworking citizens instead of either illegals or CEO's and their huge businesses, only citiizens.

I also know about that debt from the government, and it certainly is an issue, but the best I think we can do is to strive to be as debt free, personally, as possible, in order to have a clear conscience.

At this point in life, I'd like to see the Homestead Act set up again, that would give many a chance to live in better conditions, without owing huge sums of money to some corrupt bank. Too many Americans are struggling inside of dirty crime infested cities, and that just is unacceptable. As well, we do not have enough farmers in this nation anymore. I just travel through Oregon, and see all of our own many different climates and think about how so much more could be done to use it, so Americans can stop buying produce from other nations. We could again be a self-sufficient nation, one who produces all it needs to sustain itself again.