Thread: Look at Ron Paul closely if illegal immigration top issue

Chosen wrote:

It really doesn't have anything to do with MSM, I used to be a member of the RNC, I know what they are, what they have become and what they plan for the next election.

I wasn't implying that you were influenced by MSM, but that many people have been. It's not that MSM reports negatively on Hunter and Tancredo, it's their failure to acknowledge them that is doing the damage. And as we both know, that's all by design.

I would vote for Hunter with Tancredo or either with Paul however as others have stated will Hunter and Tancredo get the Republican nominee, and I'm not a Republican.

Overall I think Paul has a better chance of winning as an Independent and he may get Hunter or Tancredo as his Vice if the Republicans select a Neocon as their nominee. If Paul ran as an Independent does anyone think he can get the surge in the polls that Ross Perot had until he gave up?

I think Paul would have great success as an Independent (if the Repukes choke with the nominee selection) debating Hillary on the Iraq war. She complains however I believe she voted yea and may have even voted yea to fund the war. Paul would get a lot of Democratic votes from Hilary just with the inconsistencies of her position on the war. Paul would also get a lot of Republican votes just from his position of following our Constitution something Bush just thinks is a piece of paper!

I would not be able to vote for a Neocon knowing we will get the same nonsense we have had with Bush, no way!

(2) Paul voted in 1997, 2001( H.R. 1885) and 2002 (H RES 365) to grant, extend or continue Section 245-i amnesties for illegal aliens.

(3) Paul voted NO on extending the voluntary Basic Pilot Workplace Verification Program (H.R. 2359),

(4) Paul voted NO on the border fence in 2005 (Hunter Amendment to HR 4437 - "Enforcement Only" Bill).

(5) Paul voted YES to increase H2-B (HR 763 in 2005) and H-1B visas (HR 3736 in 199. In 1998, he voted to allow US firms to lay off Americans to replace them with foreigners.

What a surprise to hear Mrs. Freeman focus her reply not on the five items I'd presented, but instead on Congressman Paul's introduction of a bill banning "birthright citizenship" (actually one of several in the Congressional hopper). Was this another example of the politicians' shell game?

THIS DOESN'T LOOK LIKE HE IS ANTI-ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION TO ME. AND HE IS MORE THAN WILLING TO GRANT VISAS TO REPLACE AMERICAN JOBS.

Originally Posted by Chosen

In other words, if he is speaking to a liberal (popular culture usage of the term) audience he speaks about illegal aliens as if they are "scape goats."

Yes, sir. In the debates he said, "If we had a truly free-market economy, we would realize that we need them, and they would not be scape-goated."

He just takes a stright Libertarian party line which is, dry up the resources they will go away.

More to the point, I think Libertarians don't really care if they go away so long as they are not getting welfare. Its all about money, and government's authority over it to them. In this light, I fail to see how Libertarians sepatate their veiws of illegals from their views on citizens (Paul included).

Where I fault him heavily is his absolute failure to acknowledge the racists and radical elements behind this movement. He never pays any conversation to their street protests, racist claims or nationalist actions.

Agree 100%. Where is the appeal to patriotism? Where is the appeal to cultural conservatism? Our nation is under assault, and Paul seems to bring it down to a question of government's role, welfare, scapegoating, and a "need for laborers.".

He has a B on his current Immigration Report card:
http://grades.betterimmigration.com/vie ... &VIPID=787

But, he has received a D in the past and voted pro-illegalist on some very scary and anti-American legislation.
He was a no vote on Refugee and Asylum Fraud and was a no vote on Reducing chain migration.

I think he sometimes has a tendency to be contrarian. Here are some things he voted against that scare me:

2005: Voted against the Hunter Amendment to H.R. 4437 to increase border controls Rep. Paul voted against the Hunter Amendment to H.R. 4437. The Hunter Amendment would shore up security by building fences and other physical infrastructure to keep out illegal aliens. The Hunter Amendment passed by a vote of 260-159.

2002: Voted against amendment to authorize the use of the military in border control efforts Rep. Paul voted against H. Amdt. 479 to H.R. 4546 to authorize the Secretary of Defense to assign members of the military to assist in border control efforts.

2005: Voted against H. Amdt. 206 to H.R. 1815 to authorize troops on the border Rep. Paul voted against authorizing the Secretary of Defense to assign members of the military, under certain conditions, to assist in the performance of border control functions. H. Amdt. 206 passed the House by a vote of 245-184.

2005: Voted against H.R. 418 to increase border controls Rep. Paul voted against H.R. 418 to strengthen border control by requiring completion of the last 3.5 miles of the San Diego border fence. As well, H.R. 418 would broaden the terrorism-related grounds for inadmissibility and deportability of aliens. H.R. 418 passed by a vote of 261-161.

1999: Voted against the Traficant Amendment to H.R. 1401 to authorize the use of the military on the border Rep. Paul voted against authorizing the Secretary of Defense, under certain circumstances, to assign members of the military to assit the Border Patrol in their efforts. The Traficant Amendment passed by a vote of 242-181.

2004: Voted against the Goode Amendment to H.R. 4200 authorize troops on the border Rep. Paul voted against authorizing the Secretary of Defense to assign members of the military, under certain conditions, to assist in the performance of border control functions. The Goode Amendment passed the House by a vote of 231-191.

2003: Voted against the Goode Amendment to H.R. 1588 to authorize the use of the military to assist in border control Rep. Paul voted against authorizing members of the military, under certain circumstances, to assist in border control efforts. The Goode Amendment passed the House by a vote of 250-179.

2001: Voted against the Traficant Amendment to H.R. 2586 to authorize the use of troops on the border Rep. Paul voted against authorizing the Attorney General and the Secretary of the Treasury to request that members of the Armed Forces assist the INS with border control efforts. The Traficant Amendment passed by a vote of 242-173.

2000: Voted against the Traficant Amendment to H.R. 4205 to authorize the use of the military in border control efforts Rep. Paul voted against the Traficant Amendment to H.R. 4205 to authorize the Secretary of Defense, under certain circumstances, to assign members of the Armed Forces to assist the INS with border control duties. The Traficant Amendment passed by a vote of 243-183.

Now that record is hard to defend!

Originally Posted by MW

That sort of confirms our suspicions from our earlier discussion, doesn't it?

Sure does. When defending Paul, its a lot easier to talk about his views on the war than it is to defend his record on illegal immigration...

I wonder why this thread was moved to the "Other Topics" forum? The original post discusses Paul's position on border security and illegal immigration.

I wonder why this thread was moved to the "Other Topics" forum? The original post discusses Paul's position on border security and illegal immigration.

Could a moderator please explain why this was moved? I never received notification that my post was being moved or an explanation for the move. An explanation would be appreciated, thank you.

Tancredo, Ron Paul, and Hunter have the most conservative voting records on immigration.

http://www.betterimmigration.com/candida...
http://www.betterimmigration.com/candida...

Ron Paul has stated that he wants very strong borders and he was appalled that our government had taken border guards off of our borders to send them to Iraq.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/haman3....

This is his six point plan:
Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward
for breaking our laws.
No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border.

Originally Posted by BearFlagRepublic

Originally Posted by minnie

My first choice was Tancredo until I heard about his stands on bushe's war. I cannot agree with the killing of our kids for the wealth and greed of this administration and their corporations.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, explains the Ron Paul mystique.......

I am sick of these attacks on Ron Paul. You guys are ALL VERY AFRAID....

Hunter has like 50K left to run a campaign... he is bobble in the water, doing nothing.

Tancredo is cool, but he is already on matching funds because he can't raise enough money to fully compete.

RON PAUL is RATED B by NumbersUSA And rated an A by FAIR..


Stop being sooo afraid.. its rather telling.

I got an idea.. support Hucklester or Thompson..hahhahahahhaha

Originally Posted by CitizenJustice

When are people going to figure out that we CANNOT CUT AND RUN FROM IRAQ????????

As much as I wish we had never gone there, we are in a position now, where we can't leave. THAT IS, UNLESS YOU ARE A LIBERAL/DEMOCRAT.

WOW!!!

TOTALLY IGNORANT POST HERE!!!!

First off genius..... CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANISM IS ANTI-WAR!!!!

Also, NO Democrate has promised OR has a plan to get us out of Iraq, and most are planning on the idea of going into Iran.

You sound like someone who listens to hannity too much.

IF you don't like us being there, then let us get out. We are borrowing BILLIONS A DAY from China to fund this war. We are 9trillion in debt, and IF THIS WAS ABOUT "war" - we already won.

We are there to nationbuild... --- a NON conservative republican idea.. YET you support this, and so does all the other GOP/DEM candidates...

SO, I believe you have NO IDEA what party lines are really about...

If you stack Issue to Issue, voting record to voting record, RON PAUL IS THE LEAST LIBERAL and LEAST DEMOCRATIC than all the other GOP candidates..

Put down your kool-aid and get informed....

I am a HARDCORE REPUBLICAN... have been for 20 years.. RON PAUL IS THE ONLY TRUE REPUBLICAN RUNNING.

Turn off your War Mongering talk shows and get smart on what is really goiong on.. "nation building" --- "attacking over oil" --

geesh, I am always amazed at goofy statements (as shown above) by people who don't "truly" have a bead on what party lines really are..

RON PAUL is by far the BEST CHOICE for setting this nation straight!

also,,, WHAT EVER GAVE YOU THE IDEA that PEACE is a liberal agenda? You see how MSM has brainwashed you... WAR IS NOT A REPUBLICAN IDEA...

Wow.... hahahahha.. I just have to laugh.

Btw... Ron Paul is polling 4th In NH... AHEAD of Thompson.