Thread: Lou Dobbs sounds off on REAL ID today

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epassport

A biometric passport is a combined paper and electronic identity document that uses biometrics to authenticate the citizenship of travelers. The passport's critical information is stored on a tiny RFID computer chip, much like information stored on smartcards. Like some smartcards, the passport book design calls for an embedded contactless chip that is able to hold digital signature data to ensure the integrity of the passport and the biometric data.

The currently standardized biometrics used for this type of identification system are facial recognition, fingerprint recognition, and iris recognition. These were adopted after assessment of several different kinds of biometrics including retinal scan. The International Civil Aviation Organisation defines the biometric file formats and communication protocols to be used in passports. Only the digital image (usually in JPEG or JPEG2000 format) of each biometric feature is actually stored in the chip. The comparison of biometric features is performed outside the passport chip by electronic border control systems (e-borders). To store biometric data on the contactless chip, it includes a minimum of 32 kilobytes of EEPROM storage memory, and runs on an interface in accordance with the ISO/IEC 14443 international standard, amongst others. These standards ensure interoperability between different countries and different manufacturers of passport books
cont.........

You guys do know this is where it is headed?

The US already requires Biometric Passports.

I will tell you this.. If it ever gets to the point of requiring DNA samples, that is where I will for sure draw the line.

Real ID contains Biometric facial recognition technology. Once you are in the system, you will be tracked for the rest of your life as long as this system continues.

I think people should know about that BEFORE this citizen surveillance system goes into place.

All prior generations of Americans soundly rebuked and rejected these techniques.

When this system was originally discovered under construction at the Pentagon the congress pulled funding.

Why anyone in their right mind would be wiling to give a government that is at best failing us on an unprecedented level and at worst acting against the best interest of Americans this unprecedented power is beyond me.

In my opinion, Real ID, is the transnational ID to create the "mutual electronic security perimeter" discussed by the promoters of a North American Community.

Anyone that supports real ID, please type out the following acknowledgment.

"I _______ am willing to give the US Government unprecedented surveillance power over me and all law abiding US Citizens even though the government is financially insolvent, stacking billions more in debt on me, and completely failing to protect my borders, enforce existing laws, or give me representation as one taxed.

I understand that by entering the Real ID system, my identity can and will be sampled on a regular basis without my knowledge or consent and that a permanent electronic record of my whereabouts and associations with other citizens will be recorded from this point forward.

I also agree to subject my descendants to this new system regardless of the uses and abuses of such power in the future although these public discussions have not occurred prior to the implementation of this system.

Furthermore, I understand that my biometric ID will create a number that is uniquely attributed to me and once generated cannot be reversed or discarded based on my personal decisions. This number will soon be required for me to work, drive, bank, fly, eat etc...

I willingly kneel before the electronic omnipresence to be administered by the likes of Michael Chertoff and future politicians possibley Clinton or Obama"

WHO HERE WOULD LIKE TO SIGN?

W

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Real ID contains Biometric facial recognition technology. Once you are in the system, you will be tracked for the rest of your life as long as this system continues.

I think people should know about that BEFORE this citizen surveillance system goes into place.

All prior generations of Americans soundly rebuked and rejected these techniques.

When this system was originally discovered under construction at the Pentagon the congress pulled funding.

Why anyone in their right mind would be wiling to give a government that is at best failing us on an unprecedented level and at worst acting against the best interest of Americans this unprecedented power is beyond me.

In my opinion, Real ID, is the transnational ID to create the "mutual electronic security perimeter" discussed by the promoters of a North American Community.

Anyone that supports real ID, please type out the following acknowledgment.

"I _______ am willing to give the US Government unprecedented surveillance power over me and all law abiding US Citizens even though the government is financially insolvent, stacking billions more in debt on me, and completely failing to protect my borders, enforce existing laws, or give me representation as one taxed.

I understand that by entering the Real ID system, my identity can and will be sampled on a regular basis without my knowledge or consent and that a permanent electronic record of my whereabouts and associations with other citizens will be recorded from this point forward.

I also agree to subject my descendants to this new system regardless of the uses and abuses of such power in the future although these public discussions have not occurred prior to the implementation of this system.

Furthermore, I understand that my biometric ID will create a number that is uniquely attributed to me and once generated cannot be reversed or discarded based on my personal decisions. This number will soon be required for me to work, drive, bank, fly, eat etc...

I willingly kneel before the electronic omnipresence to be administered by the likes of Michael Chertoff and future politicians possibley Clinton or Obama"

WHO HERE WOULD LIKE TO SIGN?

W

Hi William. I disagree with you about this, and here is why:

First, how can we ever expect the government to solve the problem regarding illegals and possibly potential terrorists-----if there is NO way of preventing them from using fraudulent/copied documents??? One of the terrorists from 9/11 had 4 drivers' licenses----all from different states.

Next, this issue has CONTINUOUSLY been brought up on Terry Anderson----for at least the past 6 months, because he does not believe anything about the chips, etc.. He continually says--------will someone PLEASE send me an article-----from a CREDIBLE source------indicating that they plan on using a chip, retina recognition, voice recognition, etc. NOBODY has ever been able to do it.

Also, what additional information will the government be able to get on us----that they don't already have access to now?? If I had your name, Social Security number, and $25-----even I would be able to tell you where you live and work----and where you have lived/worked in at least the past five years. And, I could do this without leaving my house----and within an hour.

Dolly, you are right. I have tracked down someone myself just as you described. There is nothing in the National ID card that isn't already being done. I personally don't have a problem with it at all. This Big Brother fear is factually unfounded in my opinion.

Dolly wrote:

Also, what additional information will the government be able to get on us----that they don't already have access to now?? If I had your name, Social Security number, and $25-----even I would be able to tell you where you live and work----and where you have lived/worked in at least the past five years. And, I could do this without leaving my house----and within an hour.

I wouldn't even need your SSN or $25 to tell you how many bedrooms/baths are in your house and its assessed value. Heck, I may even be able to describe the vehicles parked in your front yard.

Like I said earlier, DHS has recommended that states utilize 2D bar code technology to make driver's licenses machine readable. That alone will satisfy the federal requirement of REAL ID. Anything beyond that is nothing more than theory and conjecture at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a future threat of RFID technology doesn't exist, however, I am saying that it isn't an issue now. Let's fight what we see and know right now - terrorist and illegal immigration - and hold off on the other stuff until it becomes more than theory and conjecture. Just my opinion...........

Why any citizen would want to allow this disfunctional government the right to track their movements, is beyond me. It's obvious, this government doesn't want to control the flow of people and goods into this country, just the American citizens within it. They have done nothing to secure this nation, and have left our borders and ports wide open. That should send up a red flag right there.

Here's something for you ponder, then ask yourselves why. Do you know it is against federal law to sell an antique railroad padlock as a collectible?

Originally Posted by Dolly3275

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Real ID contains Biometric facial recognition technology. Once you are in the system, you will be tracked for the rest of your life as long as this system continues.

I think people should know about that BEFORE this citizen surveillance system goes into place.

All prior generations of Americans soundly rebuked and rejected these techniques.

When this system was originally discovered under construction at the Pentagon the congress pulled funding.

Why anyone in their right mind would be wiling to give a government that is at best failing us on an unprecedented level and at worst acting against the best interest of Americans this unprecedented power is beyond me.

In my opinion, Real ID, is the transnational ID to create the "mutual electronic security perimeter" discussed by the promoters of a North American Community.

Anyone that supports real ID, please type out the following acknowledgment.

"I _______ am willing to give the US Government unprecedented surveillance power over me and all law abiding US Citizens even though the government is financially insolvent, stacking billions more in debt on me, and completely failing to protect my borders, enforce existing laws, or give me representation as one taxed.

I understand that by entering the Real ID system, my identity can and will be sampled on a regular basis without my knowledge or consent and that a permanent electronic record of my whereabouts and associations with other citizens will be recorded from this point forward.

I also agree to subject my descendants to this new system regardless of the uses and abuses of such power in the future although these public discussions have not occurred prior to the implementation of this system.

Furthermore, I understand that my biometric ID will create a number that is uniquely attributed to me and once generated cannot be reversed or discarded based on my personal decisions. This number will soon be required for me to work, drive, bank, fly, eat etc...

I willingly kneel before the electronic omnipresence to be administered by the likes of Michael Chertoff and future politicians possibley Clinton or Obama"

WHO HERE WOULD LIKE TO SIGN?

W

Hi William. I disagree with you about this, and here is why:

First, how can we ever expect the government to solve the problem regarding illegals and possibly potential terrorists-----if there is NO way of preventing them from using fraudulent/copied documents??? One of the terrorists from 9/11 had 4 drivers' licenses----all from different states.

Next, this issue has CONTINUOUSLY been brought up on Terry Anderson----for at least the past 6 months, because he does not believe anything about the chips, etc.. He continually says--------will someone PLEASE send me an article-----from a CREDIBLE source------indicating that they plan on using a chip, retina recognition, voice recognition, etc. NOBODY has ever been able to do it.

Also, what additional information will the government be able to get on us----that they don't already have access to now?? If I had your name, Social Security number, and $25-----even I would be able to tell you where you live and work----and where you have lived/worked in at least the past five years. And, I could do this without leaving my house----and within an hour.

Dolly,

1. Why would anyone want to give the Government a new tool when they are not enforcing the existing laws first?

2. America always prevented mass illegal immigration or solved mass illegal immigration in the past without putting all law abiding Americans into a national tracking ID, why start now?

3. I will talk to Terry and send him the documents.

4. What additional information will the government have? They will have your physical location logged and who you were with. They will have a record of who you associate with. They are also working to take all known information about you to collect into one database to combine with your new tracking data that comes from real ID to then run programs on the data to determine your likelihood to be a terrorist. It will be like a credit file that controls every aspect of your life. That is why Michael Chertoff says real ID will "restructure our society".

Here is the logo of TIA (Total Information Awareness) which created the biometric tracking technology for Real ID. I will not bow to this.

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Dolly, you are right. I have tracked down someone myself just as you described. There is nothing in the National ID card that isn't already being done. I personally don't have a problem with it at all. This Big Brother fear is factually unfounded in my opinion.

Texasborn,

Information is power. If you have it, you have the power. If someone else has it over you, they have the power. Why do you think that all prior generations of Americans rejected this kind of attempt to form a national ID or fingerprint everyone or allow the government on phone lines, in our bank accounts etc...

For that reason, why do you think the writers of the US Constitution put privacy protections into it?

W

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Why anyone in their right mind would be wiling to give a government that is at best failing us on an unprecedented level and at worst acting against the best interest of Americans this unprecedented power is beyond me.

I think that pertty much sums it up for me.

Have you guys even read the Real ID Act?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_id_act

It will use common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements (the details of which are not spelled out, but left to the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation and the states, to regulate).

Let me give you a little tid bit to think about.

In Daytona Beach the police are/were swabbing the mouths of prople at traffic stops and DUI checkpoints in the effort to catch a serial killer. Apparently he left DNA at one or more of the scenes.

http://www.local6.com/news/15232197/detail.html

It is not a stretch at all to see dna somehow being implemented into the ID.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LZe32HSrRHk&feature=related

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/demon ... 4277687790

Pistov wrote:

Have you guys even read the Real ID Act?

Yes.

Quote:
It will use common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements (the details of which are not spelled out, but left to the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation and the states, to regulate).

The "machine readable technology" is the 2D bar code. The federal government will only have the power to track you when your driver's license is read (boarding commercial aircraft, entering federal building, etc.) They will not have the power to track your day to day movements. The card simply validates that you are who you say you are. You have to purchase a ticket in your name to enter a commercial aircraft and you have to sign in as a vistor to enter most federal buildings.