Thread: Mike pence immigration plan

Ive been following the illegal immigration debate very closely and i have a pretty good understanding where both side are coming from and why they hate each other plans for immigration reform.

But anyway, i want to talk about the Mike Pence plan that would have forced all 12 million illegal immigrants to go home, and from back home, they would be able to apply under a new created guest worker, and as long as they were unfilled job, they would be allow to enter "legally" for a specific amount of time, then leave...This would allow them to repeat this cycle, as long as those jobs were unfilled.

Now i understand why Tancredo and the movement rejected it, and i suspect the plan was to not do anything on immigration, allow the voters to vote-out anyone that voted for s2611, then come back next year and pass the "enforcement'only bill.

The voters didnt vote any so called "pro amnesty" lawmakers out, and in fact voted some of the most vocal pro-enforcment-first, out...Hayworth, Graf and others will not be part of the 110th congress, and this will definatly hurt the movement.

Anyway, looking back at the Mike pence bill, i wonder whether the movement made a huge mistake by misjudging the mood of the electorate which caused them to dismiss pence's bill as amnesty.

I myself didnt think pence's bill was amnesty because it demanded everyone to mass deport before "legally" re-entering, and i was kind of upset that bay buchahan and other jumped on his neck...Now, the movement will definatly get something that would mirror amnesty...If you though pence bill was amnesty, wait untill you see the one the democrats presents, and believe me, there's nothing to stop it.

The Dems will have no opposition because the last line of defense was the house, and with it gone, the movement will be punish for not taking a bill that would have demanded everyone to self mass deport, on the table.

I've heard tancredo say that amnesty can still be dfeated even with no last line to protect it from ever getting enacted, but i myself think it's over.

Tancredo says he would be able to work with Blue Dog conservatives democrats to defeat the amnesty, but would those guys really defy pelosy and hoyer by working against it?..I sincerily dont think so...If you take a closer look at those blue dogs issues on their website, you'll find out that a majority of them support a "comprehenasive" approach to immigration, which means, they support s2611.

If Tancredo thinks he could flip them and join his cause, then good luck,ill be shock if guest worker program doesnt get throught the 110th congress.

For Tancredo to be successfull, he would need at least 30 dems to votes against it, and i cant think of 15 dems that would definatly vote against pelosi/hoyer guest worker/path to citizenship plan....Not only will he have to get 30 dems to cross party line, but he he will also have to defend against any GOP lawmakers crossing party line to support the guest worker, and believe me, i can think of at least 15 GOP members that would cross party line.

The 3 cubans in florida, jeff flake, and the guy from Utha and a few more, will definaly cross party line for Bush.

MovingForward, while I understand what you are saying, I believe that the Pence plan is just another amnesty. Amnesty is allowing those who are here illegally to stay here, pure and simple. This was tried in 1986 and was an abject failure. The 3 million given amnesty then turned into 12-20 million or more now. Those who have broken our laws should not be rewarded by being allowed to stay. This would end up being a repeat of the 1986 amnesty. We should learn from our mistakes and not keep repeating them, expecting a different result!

How can you have people go back to their country and turn around and come right back passing all the people who are in line to enter the U.S.?

Good point Gofer. It is not fair to law-abiding citizens or to those who are playing by the rules.

Ok, i understand what you are saying , but remember, this is no longer about passing "enforcement-only"...Its about picking the less of 2 evil.

The mike pence bill demanded people to leave first, then they could apply to come back...Under the haguel/martinez plan, they wont have to even leave.

If you think this is still a fight between "enforcement-only" and amnesty, then you are wrong...Now, its a fight between amnesty and "grand-amnesty"....

If you listen closely to the dems, they are planning to scrap the haguel/martinez bill off the table, and pass the kennedy/mcCain bill which is much more generous...This is the new fight....the fight for an enforcement-only bill has been lost.

Its about picking the less of 2 evil.

You can but I refuse to do that with American sovereignty and our way of life.

Its about picking the less of 2 evil.

If it's evil we just don't want it. When there is two evils, get rid of them both.

Pence + more foreign labor = more illegal immigration

About 50% of all illegal aliens were once visa holders. No thanks, don't want any more. Figure a way to effectivly deport the people that overstay first.

Dixie

Ok, i understand what you are saying , but remember, this is no longer about passing "enforcement-only"...Its about picking the less of 2 evil.

I see the ball in the court of the political parties. Shoot that ball and face your political death in 2008.

With all the cities, towns, states, boroughs, in this country, trying to pass laws to enforce this onslaught.......it's a BIG gamble for the Dems to pass an amnesty bill, knowing the mood of the nation. Making the legal or GW's won't change the problems of the social costs, crime, etc. When you go against 80% of the public, somethings gotta give! I'm sure they will try and dress it up. The Dems won by a slim margin, so they know they gotta be careful or '08 is a goner. They want the Presidency BAD! The propaganda keeps coming, but I'm not buying into it's a "slam dunk" as some want us to believe.