Thread: More Information about Cong. Tancredo's H.R. 3333

http://www.forthecause.us/ftc-n-muller- ... rt-2.shtml

Your Followup Questions Answered -
Tancredo's Brilliant Plan for Stopping Illegal Immigration
and Reducing Job Loss
by Nathan J. Muller
For the Cause - forthecause.us





With the publication of our original article, we received questions about Rep. Tom Tancredo's REAL GUEST Act of 2005, otherwise known as H.R. 3333. We answered your most compelling concerns in a subsequent article, Your Top 10 Questions Answered. Now we address questions that have trickled in since then, as well as some comments in newsletters and emails that were forwarded to us. Some of the answers have numbers in brackets, which refer to the page numbers of the bills under discussion.



1. Why can't we just enforce the immigration laws we have now? That would solve the problems of illegal entry and penalize employers who break laws already on the books when they hire illegal aliens, plus meet our need for border security…

This sounds like a great idea in principle, but many of our current laws are inadequate or too vague to accomplish all of this, and the courts continue to weigh in on many of the issues that prevent our current laws from being enforced.

One of the most outrageous court decisions that had a nationwide impact came from a district court in New Hampshire which ruled, among other things, that local and state police are not authorized to enforce our nation's immigration laws and that this is reserved for federal law enforcement agencies. H.R. 3333 corrects this erroneous assumption [Tancredo, 77].

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H.R. 1325
Full text of Rep. Tom Tancredo's bill "To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to repeal authorities relating to H1–B visas for temporary workers."



H.R. 3333
Full text of Rep. Tom Tancredo's REAL GUEST Act of 2005...



H.R. 3938
Full text of Rep. J.D. Hayworth's Enforcement First Immigration Reform Act of 2005...



Current law against employment of illegal aliens is unenforceable because of its vagueness and lack of manpower to do worksite investigations. Current law does not provide adequate Border Patrol manpower or detention space to prevent OTM (other than Mexico) aliens from being released.

Several state courts have ruled, in essence, that "illegal presence" in and of itself is not a crime. H.R. 3333 would make unlawful presence in the United States a felony and specifies criminal penalties and asset forfeiture for violations [Tancredo, 27]. As a byproduct of this provision, and the provision for giving state and local police the power to enforce our immigration laws, the obnoxious concept of "Sanctuary Cities" would effectively be eliminated.

The courts permit those unlawfully present in this country to benefit from Social Security. H.R. 3333 amends several sections of the Social Security Act to prevent this situation from continuing [Tancredo, 68].

Current law allows tens of thousands of aliens to falsely claim asylum. H.R. 3333 [Tancredo, 74-75] would terminate the asylum provision of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 115. H.R. 3333 also repeals the amnesty provision of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1259) [Tancredo, 75].

Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) currently has discretion on picking up and holding illegal aliens for deportation. H.R. 3333 takes away this discretion [Tancredo, 78-81]. Further, H.R. 3333 increases the number of ICE immigration inspectors, detention and removal officers, and criminal investigators [Tancredo, 24-25].

Under the current system, immigration appeals can clog up the courts for years. H.R. 3333 relieves this clog by increasing the number of attorneys for the ICE legal program [Tancredo, 25].

H.R. 3333 also tightens up the procedure for releasing aliens on their own recognizance by establishing a bond of at least $10,000. It prevents the release of aliens who are a flight risk (just about all illegal aliens qualify) or who represent a threat to the United States [Tancredo, 47].

We not only have to demand that existing immigration laws be enforced, we need to fix some of these laws to eliminate vagueness, discretion, and loopholes so they can be applied in a standard manner. The value of H.R. 3333 is that it addresses these critical issues. Other Members of Congress appreciate this and have incorporated language from H.R. 3333 into their own bills.

2. Tancredo's proposal is just another guest worker bill. It even says so right on the bill: "To enhance border enforcement, improve homeland security, remove incentives for illegal immigration, and establish a guest worker program." Why do you continue defending this?

Anyone who reads this statement in isolation may conclude that H.R. 3333 is just another guest worker bill. But we are reminded of the old adage: "You cannot always judge a book by its cover." Here's an example of what we're talking about:

Let's say that you have two bills on your desk and you have time to flip through only one of them -- Tancredo's H.R. 3333 or Hayworth's H.R. 3938.

Tancredo's bill is labeled as the "REAL GUEST Act of 2005." Hayworth's bill is labeled as the "Enforcement First Immigration Reform Act of 2005." If you care deeply about immigration issues, you would probably pick up Hayworth's bill first, since you've locked on to the phrase "enforcement first." You would probably dismiss Tancredo's bill entirely because the term "GUEST" is not a concept that you care to consider further.

But if you go beyond the covers of the two bills, you would discover that Hayworth wants to increase the number of employment-based visas by 120,000 [Hayworth, 91-92]. Tancredo does not increase the number of employment-based visas; in fact, he replaces the current corrupt and unworkable employment-based visa system with only two categories of workers, skilled and unskilled, to eliminate opportunities for abuse.

As noted in previous articles, Tancredo admits that there is the possibility, however remote, that guest workers may be needed in this country at some point in the future. If that situation ever arises, his H.R. 3333 proposal ensures that every guest is treated as a REAL GUEST. Among other things, this means:


Aliens must submit an application from their home country [Tancredo, 11].
Aliens can only stay temporarily and then must go home [Tancredo, 4].
They cannot bring a spouse or children with them into this country [Tancredo, 4].
They, or children born to them while in this county, cannot become citizens [Tancredo, 12].
They cannot receive federal benefits or state social benefits that are even partially funded by the federal government [Tancredo, 12].
Any alien fortunate enough to be admitted into this country for employment after going through a rigorous screening process must sign an affidavit acknowledging their status as a REAL GUEST and that this status cannot be changed [Tancredo, 12]. Any alien who violates the terms of admission or who overstays is barred from any immigrant or non-immigrant visa for a period of 10 years [Tancredo, 14].

If the widely held belief is true -- that there are Americans available for every type of job -- then there is nothing to fear from Tancredo's proposal because there would be no need for guest workers, especially since employers would have to raise compensation to attract American workers. Under Tancredo's proposal, employers would not be able to justify alien workers based on wages that only aliens would accept.

3. Can't you get it through your head: we don't want a new glorified, improved H-1B program with checks by the Labor Secretary. These programs don't work. Not only should no one be admitted, those currently here should leave. How about an "H-1B Deportation Bill…" Tancredo is receiving all the flack on this bill because it is a big mistake.

In Tancredo's H.R. 1325, the H-1B program would be cancelled. In Tancredo's H.R. 3333, the H1-B program is replaced by an "H non-immigrants" category, the mechanics of which eliminate, or at least minimize, opportunities for the kind of abuse associated with the current H1-B program [Tancredo, 8].

Calling for an "H-1B Deportation Bill" is good way to get your blood boiling, but not much else. If we can't even get the H-1B program cancelled or even replaced with a more favorable program for American workers, how could you reasonably expect our government to deport all H-1B visa holders?

The H-1B program has been corrupt for so long that it has become institutionalized with the complicity of our own elected officials in Washington, who routinely collude with Big Business to get whatever number of H-1B visas they want. Now getting any kind of meaningful change is going to be very difficult.

The Labor Department cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of American workers, but this is only because we have a President who fails to take his oath of office seriously -- to uphold the Constitution and enforce our nation's laws. Bush will even suspend laws that protect American workers from low wages, as he did with the Davis-Bacon act for federally-funded construction projects in New Orleans. As part of the Bush Administration, Secretary Elaine Chao takes policy direction from the White House.

The point is that enforcement of any law is predicated on having responsible officials in office. That's not Tancredo's fault and it is certainly no reason for him to withdraw H.R. 3333.

4. We need to kick out all illegal aliens from this country - I'll even help them pack and drive them home myself. I don't see how Tancredo's bill solves anything.

The problem with the "round'em up, kick'em out" approach is that we do not really know how many aliens are here illegally, who they are, and where to find most of them. Even ICE needs time, manpower, budget and the close cooperation of local law enforcement to gather intelligence about illegal aliens before they can arrest and deport them.

We need to dispel the notion that somehow just rounding up and kicking out aliens and closing the border so they can't return is somehow a panacea. Enforcement of anything has always been a problem and always will be a problem. If nobody is to be admitted into this country, that's an enforcement issue too. So why not make it as unattractive as we can for people to sneak in here illegally that they prefer stay home?

Tancredo understands all this, which is why he makes it so difficult for aliens to apply for jobs here. They have to go home first to fill out an application and even stay there until hired. He also makes it very difficult for employers to hire aliens, and the penalties for violations would make any businessman think twice about circumventing the law. His REAL GUEST Act, if read closely, ends up not being the least bit friendly to aliens or employers who want to hire them.

The restrictions outlined in H.R. 3333 so discourage aliens who are already here, that without jobs and social benefits to sustain them, they would have no recourse but to return home voluntarily -- without burdening the taxpayer to find them and escort them out. This is Tancredo's concept of "attrition."

And once illegal aliens return home, they cannot get back into this country without first being entered into the Chimera database system [Tancredo, 13]. With their photo and fingerprints on file, they can also be checked against criminal and terrorist databases to bolster national security.

5. Your opinion of American workers sounds just like Bush:

Hundreds of thousands of illegal and legal foreign workers are already coming here annually, not only for the jobs "Americans won't do," but to take away the jobs Americans already have.

Isn't it pathetic that someone who claims to be on our side has such contempt for Americans?

Our comment (in red) was culled from an email from forthecause.us to its distribution list on October 18th. And sure enough, it went right over the detractor's head.

The reason the phrase "Americans won't do" is in quotation marks is because it is not our phrase. We are poking fun at President Bush, who continually tells the nation that he wants to provide a means to fill jobs that "Americans won't do." Rather than expressing contempt for Americans, as alleged, we are expressing contempt for President Bush.

When I debated Tancredo's proposal with this detractor on the George Putnam radio show on October 18th and pointed this out to him after he read our statement on the air, his best retort was that he didn't find the comment very funny. So be it… We even give credit to our detractor for managing to reveal another crisis facing our nation: the criminal neglect of our education system, which allows so many our young people to get by without basic reading and writing skills.

6. It is well documented by Lou Dobbs and others that the Labor Department violated the law recently by raising the number of employment visas from 60,000 to 72,000 without the consent of Congress. Nobody in the Labor Department is being held accountable for this violation. Doesn't this prove beyond any doubt that we can't trust the Labor Department to enforce any provisions of Tancredo's proposal or any legislation dealing with alien workers, no matter how well intended?

The Labor Department did indeed break the law and you are correct that so far nobody has been held accountable for this violation. And no, we cannot trust the Labor Department alone to act in the best interests of American workers. But all laws and proposed legislation assume that there is a President in office who takes seriously his oath of office to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Implicit in this oath is that the President also has a duty to uphold the nation's laws, including its immigration laws. This attitude of only enforcing the laws you agree with has pervaded every aspect of government and society to the point where virtually nobody really wants to take responsibility for enforcing our nation's immigration or labor laws, even when the violations are flagrant.

To change this situation, all of us need to vote more intelligently in 2006; specifically, by voting out of office Senators and Representatives who have not taken a strong stand on the illegal immigration issue. Even on this, Tom Tancredo is leading the way by publicly supporting Minuteman co-founder Jim Gilchrist against his Republican rival in California's 48th District general election to be held in December 2005. In opposing the GOP, Tancredo may have put his own reelection chances at risk.

7. Michael Chertoff recently testified before Congress that the Department of Homeland Security is committed to completely eliminating the "catch and release"' enforcement problem, and to returning every single illegal entrant -- no exceptions. Does this mean Tancredo's H.R. 3333 can now be taken off the table?

Although Chertoff did tell the Senate Judiciary Committee on October 18th that DHS would strive to return every single illegal entrant, this part of his testimony was firmly sandwiched within the context of solving the problem of non-Mexican nationals seeking to enter our country illegally. This may have been deliberate or it may have been careless -- it's too soon to tell. [Read Chertoff's testimony and let us know what you think.]

Chertoff's mission at DHS is to carry out the policy directives of the Bush Administration. Bush may be doing some old-fashioned horse trading: he is willing enforce our nation's immigration laws to keep out non-Mexican nationals, if we agree to his temporary worker program that includes a path to citizenship for Mexican nationals.

So the need remains for Congress to consider Tancredo's H.R. 3333 because it addresses the issue of temporary workers in a way that gives preference to American workers for all jobs, skilled and unskilled, and protects American jobs even during changes in the economy or financial deterioration of an employer.

At the same time, H.R. 3333 would put into motion safeguards that severely limit opportunities for guest entry in any circumstance. Tancredo's bill does not include amnesty for illegal aliens already here and does not even hold out the promise of citizenship to any guest worker who does manage to qualify for employment here.

8. You just don't get it… If you really understood the issues those of us in the tech sector are experiencing or appreciated the threat the H-1B program poses for us, you would not be supporting Tancredo's bill.

I have been in the tech sector for over 30 years. During that time I have been caught in layoffs many times, squeezed out by mergers and acquisitions, and forced out due to corporate bankruptcy. I have endured long bouts of unemployment, during which I turned to publishing technical books, reports and articles to make a living. Tired of all the upheavals that afflict the tech sector, I now operate a thriving business serving clients in the tech sector.

As a business owner, I have been approached to outsource my firm's programming work to the Philippines where the wages are very low. I do not engage foreign workers, no matter how attractively the deal is presented. I don't mind paying top dollar for American programmers because it saves me money in the short-term and long-term. In the short-term, I am confident of getting back quality work and I learn something new that can be applied to the future requirements of my clients, which saves my firm development costs in the long-term.

So, I really do "get it." That's why I support the ideas expressed in H.R. 3333 as the best chance we have of ensuring that Americans get jobs, receive training to qualify them for jobs, and protect their jobs once they get them.

9. Rising wages are the necessary condition for the admission of H-1B visa holders. Thus, H.R. 3333 would allow H-1Bs admission even in the present difficult hiring environment. This is why I oppose it in its present form…

It is not possible to force a comparison of the current H-1B wage calculation -- which relies on a flawed four-tiered calculation methodology and is not enforced -- with the "H" non-immigrant visa system described in H.R. 3333.

Under Tancredo's proposal, if aliens are admitted or given "H" non-immigrant status, they must be paid real wages equal to the median national wage rate for the occupation, as verified by the Occupational Employment Statistics survey of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, or the prevailing wage, whichever is greater [Tancredo, 7]. This removes incentives for employers to manipulate wages downward to the point that only alien workers would want the jobs.

At the risk of being repetitive, we agree that the H-1B program should be abolished, which is why Tancredo introduced H.R. 1325 earlier this year.

10. The only countries where the supply and demand has EVER been controlled by the government are COMMUNIST nations. Now, I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to live in a communist country. This bill really has me rankled, and I can't understand for the life of me why all of you people want to give the government this much control over the labor market.

We do not want to live in a communist country either, but H.R. 3333 does not attempt to control supply and demand. The bill puts into motion enforcement mechanisms that prevent corporations from manipulating wages to the point that only aliens would find them attractive. H.R. 3333 protects American jobs and severely penalizes employers who attempt to hire illegal aliens, or misrepresenting the state of the marketplace to justify hiring alien workers.

H.R. 3333 even anticipates that there might be abuses of the new "H" non-immigrant program and mandates the use of fees collected from employers to investigate allegations of fraud [Tancredo, 6-7].

11. Tancredo's bill contains language to create a national jobs data bank, "America's Job Bank". This system will "match willing employers with willing workers" giving the Secretary of Labor the power to control the inflow of "guest workers" -- balancing them with the domestic supply of labor. This legislation also gives the Secretary of Labor the authority to determine the necessity for foreign labor based on wage rates for a particular job skill.

Tancredo's H.R. 3333 calls for the creation of a national jobs data bank, but its function is not to carry out the Bush policy of "matching willing employers with willing workers." Tancredo does not give the Labor Secretary the power to control wage rates. In fact, H.R. 3333 removes much of the wiggle room employers, the Labor Department and Congress currently have for interfering with the free market.

As we have noted so many times before, Tancredo makes it difficult for aliens to apply for work here and for employers to hire them, but leaves open the possibility that aliens might be needed for temporary work in the future. If so, there would be a ready source of pre-screened candidates employers can use to find qualified applicants.

The job bank does not give the Labor Secretary the power to control the inflow of "guest workers." Tancredo's bill specifies that long-term market conditions control whether an employer is justified in petitioning the Labor Department for permission to access the data bank so that a temporary shortage can be filled. Because the market is in control, there is no room for employer exaggeration or for Labor Department discretion. And under Tancredo's bill, allegations of fraud will be pursued, paid for by employer job bank fees.

In Tancredo's proposal, neither the Labor Department nor employers are in control of wage rates. As explained earlier, wage rates are determined by the median national wage rate for the occupation, as determined by the Occupational Employment Statistics survey of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, or the prevailing wage, whichever is greater [Tancredo, 7]. This means employers cannot set an arbitrary wage rate to exclude American workers from employment in favor of aliens who would be willing to work for a much lower wage.

If compensation in a particular occupational category in a geographic region has been stagnant or in decline for the 6-month period immediately preceding the filing of a petition for an "H" non-immigrant worker, the Labor Secretary cannot approve an employer petition for alien workers until two things happen [Tancredo, 6]:


Compensation in that occupational category and geographic region has increased each month for at least 6 months by an amount to be determined by the Secretary (and in keeping with the median national wage rate for the occupation, as determined by the Occupational Employment Statistics survey of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, or the prevailing wage, whichever is greater [Tancredo, 7] ).

The Secretary has reassessed the prevailing wage for that occupational category and geographic region to ensure that it reflects the rising real wage levels.
In other words, if wages are stagnant or in decline, and open positions cannot be filled, the employer is forced to take steps to improve wages, working conditions or benefits - or some combination of all three. Failure to make the job more attractive to Americans and keeping compensation low, then insisting on alien workers to do those jobs for low wages, is simply exploitation, and this would not be allowed under Tancredo's proposal.

If real wages are rising, the employer can petition the Labor Department for alien workers, but only after hiring American workers first. If Americans are not exactly qualified to do the job, then the employer is required to provide training for up to one year to get them qualified.

Only when both requirements do not result in an American getting the job, despite best efforts, can the employer petition the Labor Department for permission to hire alien workers. This is a much better way of handling the jobs situation than the current employment visa programs.

Consider this: the tech sector has lost 20% more jobs this year than last year, according to a study by Challenger, Gray & Christmas. And programmers in particular have a national unemployment rate of 5.8%, according to the Labor Department.

Under the current H-1B regime, the number of visas is currently being increased by Congress, under heavy lobbying pressure, despite high unemployment in the tech sector. Tancredo's H.R. 3333 would stack the deck in favor of hiring Americans by replacing the corrupt H-1B program and stopping employers from importing foreign workers whenever it suits them.

12. Does anyone have any idea how large, costly, or controlling this job bank would be? If you don't, then you have no business working in the public policy/legislative area.

I do not work in the public policy/legislative area. I do not work for Tancredo, the Immigration Reform Caucus, or any government entity. My business does not even have clients in the public sector. But I do know something about databases…

Apart from operating a business that serves the tech sector, I have been a contributing analyst to one the nation's premier research organizations for over 15 years. I evaluate database management systems and my reports are used by Fortune 1000 firms to help them determine what database systems to buy, when to upgrade and when to migrate to another platform.

I personally do not like having to explain my qualifications, especially since all this information is readily available through Google and Amazon searches to anyone who really wants to know. The risk in not sharing this information, however, is that our detractors often try to portray us as having just fallen off the turnip truck.

As explained in previous articles, much of the job databases described in H.R. 3333 already exist in the form of state employment agency databases and Department of Labor databases, all of which are accessible over the Internet or can be upgraded for Internet access without much effort or expense. This means much of the infrastructure has already been paid for. There will be an incremental cost to link these resources together, ensure compliance with standardized fields to facilitate information sharing, add security, and make the different databases interoperable at some baseline level.

The job bank is a monitoring, enforcement and reporting tool that guards against corporate fraud and ensures that illegal aliens cannot possibly get jobs. It is also a repository for pre-screened applications so that guest workers can be found who have already undergone extensive health, criminal and terrorist background checks before being admitted into this country for employment, if and when they are ever needed.

The database cannot be used by the Labor Department to control labor supply and demand, dictate wages, or be expanded to provide a national resource management system that forces all of us into low-wage job slots -- no matter how well articulated, diagrammed, and packaged these ideas seem to be among conspiracy enthusiasts.

The Labor Department cannot even sneak all this past us without our knowledge because it is required to issue quarterly reports using the data included in the jobs bank. Labor Department reports are already very closely examined and analyzed by Wall Street, economists, the finance community and the business media. We do not believe this will suddenly change because the Labor Department has one more tool available to monitor employer compliance with the hiring provisions in H.R. 3333.

13. Tancredo's bill seeks to fix the price of labor by controlling the supply of nonimmigrant labor. It's a socialistic concept that is great for corporations who want cheap labor, but it's a disaster for Americans who want to earn as much as the free market will allow them to. Why are Tancredo and others so afraid to let the free market work?

Tancredo is not afraid to let the free market work. The point of H.R. 3333 is to remove opportunities for fraud, market manipulation, artificial wage/salary depression and abuse of social benefit programs, all of which have been adversely impacting the proper operation of our free market economy for quite some time. H.R. 3333 proposes corrective action for a free market that is already dysfunctional in terms of:


Permitting the flow of illegal aliens across our border in violation of federal law.
Letting illegal aliens find work in this country at far less wages than American workers can live on, which depresses wages for everyone in that job category.
Permitting the salaries of technical professionals to be driven artificially low so corporations can justify the import of foreign workers, despite high unemployment in the tech sector.
Tancredo's H.R. 3333 offers the best opportunity we have of removing artificial barriers against American workers and of restoring the free market to proper operation. Currently, no other bill in the House or Senate seeks to protect American workers, limit abuses by employers, and severely constrain opportunities for guest workers as thoroughly as Tancredo, even though they might include language from H.R. 3333.

Wrapping up

None of the questions we have received or the comments we have picked up elsewhere cause us to change our original assessment that Tancredo's H.R. 3333 is "brilliant."

Throughout this 3-part series of articles explaining the fine points of Tancredo's bill, we have endeavored to stick to the issues raised in the bill and follow up that discussion by selecting the most compelling questions for detailed answers. We thank you for your participation and hope we have brought more clarity and precision to these issues. Along the way, we hope you will be motivated to give Tancredo's H.R. 3333 further consideration.



Nathan Muller is co-founder of For the Cause and the author of 26 books and numerous articles on political, regulatory, legal, management and technology issues. He is a frequent speaker at seminars and other events. He can be reached at this email address.



Permission to reproduce this article in whole or in part is granted, providing that credit is given to the author and For the Cause - www.forthecause.us - is cited as the source.

There are those initials again--OTM'S! I am SICK of that little designation. I'm not as concerned about OTM's as I am about all of the M's who are in this country illegally. ARE THEY ALL AFRAID TO CALL A SPADE A SPADE for fear of alienating Vicente Fox???

I guess it's true that some of our laws are vague BUT there are plenty of laws on the books that are NOT and they are NOT BEING ENFORCED. It just seems like we're putting the cart before the horse here. When I see that they are actively enforcing those laws that ARE good, I will agree that there may be a need for more laws. It just does no good to keep making laws when nobody has the courage OR the manpower to enforce them.

As I said earlier, tancredofan--Tancredo's plan certainly is tougher on illegal immigration than any of the others but why can't we start with what we already have and let them show us how serious they are about enforcing those???