Thread: MY CONVERSATION W/ AN OBL

While doing a search on the author of the article below, I came across an OBL site calling itself "radic@l immigration". I poked around a bit, because as usual, I am just astounded and dumbfounded at why some people think open borders are ok. I came across a comment section on the website and below is a conversation I had with an OBLer. God Bless his liberal bleeding heart!

Im still "chewing" on what to say back to him. I'm trying my best to be polite, but it's hard. There is so much I could expound on to him, in fact, I hardly know where to start, but will it change anything? I doubt it.

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=F ... c&p=886390

ME:

Tell me more about your side

Written by on 21-04-2009 15:13

ok, so people have the "right" to live where they choose? If our borders where opened up to Mexico, most mexicans will "choose" to live here in the US. What about our natural resources? They are obviously not in infinite supply. California is facing yet another water shortage. One day, H2o might be more precious than fuel.

What about jobs? Are they in infinite supply? Obviously not-especially now.

What about language and culture that is sovreign to the USA? Don't Americans have the right to preserve that? We are not asking immigrants to forget thiers, but it seems to me that unchecked, unlimited immigration will force ours out of existence though higher birthrates and lack of assimilation.

I'm trying to undertand why anyone would want our borders wide open. If you have an answer-I'd be interested in hearing it.

From where I stand here in California and as a native of this state for nearly 40 years, every person I know in this so called liberal state is against unchecked immigration and illegals being here. We are taxed to death and they are a big reason for it.

OBLer's REPLY

Good Questions
Written by on 21-04-2009 20:30

All good questions. I'll try to answer them.
Will all Mexicans move here if we have open borders?
We have had "open borders" with Puerto Rico for 80 years and about 25% of their population has moved to the USA. Right now about 16% of Mexicans live in the USA. Most people like to stay where they were born.
Natural resources and good jobs are always in limited supply. In the USA we have always allowed the marketplace to decide on the allocation of resources. I don't see why we should change that now.
Language, culture and assimilation are real concerns. I have studied the other great aves of immigration and the system and time seems to take care of it. The Irish, the Jews and the Italians all went through the same issue and came out Americans. What we have is a system that is in the margin better than all of the others at producing opportunity and freedom. People want to be part of it and it is good for all of us if we let them.
"I'm trying to understand why anyone would want our borders wide open." I want our borders wide open for responsible people. We have free trade for goods. We have free flows of capital. And now it is time for the world to have free flows of people. If people could leave North Korea and had a place to go the regime there would collapse in months, just like East Germany collapsed. If the Haitians could come to the US to work there children wouldn't starve. Increased migration is a moral imperative. More customers for a business is a good thing. More fans at a ball game is a good thing. More people moving to the USA is also a good thing. Newcomers who are not hiding in the shadows pay taxes, rent apartments and buy stuff. Immigration is a sign that we are doing things well, that our system work and that the great stew that is the United States is adding another flavor.

Well if he feels that our free market system dictates or allocates our resources he's dead wrong!! The free market system has been corrupted to the point where it brainwashes people into believing that if they come here they will have a better life to justify modern day SLAVERY! And anyone that supports Illegal Immigration over or equal to legal immigration is promoting the exploitation of all Illegal Immigrants. I care too much about people to let something like the lies given to people from our government and greedy big business to agree with a polished turd like slavery! Not only that but these people are told to accept mediocrity by getting handouts and stereotyped to specific jobs, that is not the American Dream.

If 25 percent of Puerto Ricans came here today, that would only mean one million people (pop. nearly 4 million). With Mexico's population closing in on 110,000,000, 16 percent would mean 17 million emigres. And Puerto Ricans are allowed to vote in our party primaries; Mexicans are not.
He wants open borders for responsible people? How does one know if the person crossing is responsible, if we do not know who is crossing or where they go? Responsible people will follow the law and get a visa to come here so his arguments are showing a few cracks.
Free trade and outsourcing has destroyed our economic base. More customers for a business means those customers have to have an income. And from the swarms of day laborers all over the streets these days, even they have no means of income willing to work for less, much less the eight or nine percent of responsible Americans. Food is more important than anything.
Free market for gizmos is one thing, but our staff of life, water, is another. Plus since we have the ability to only check maximum five percent of shipments into this country, we end up consuming tainted infant formula, get salmonella from Mexican hot peppers.
Just wonder what state this guy is in (if he is even in this country).

No matter what is said or proven to the OBL's, they just don't want to listen. You can show them the truth and facts about how this illegal immigration invasion is hurting the U.S.A., but they will whine and cry foul and finally resort to calling you a racist. The OBL's just don't get it.

SickNTired, don't waste your time.

When people can't make obvious connections between population and resources consumption, don't know that resources are finite, don't know that there is no such thing as a completely free market or completely free trade, you'd have to spend years just working on the basics.

If you want to post on that site, please just post there, but don't do with a goal of educating ignoramuses. It's very possible that people who read there are looking for information. Your information will help them.

You can tell him that the operative word here is “tradeâ€

Not to mention, the world doesn't have open borders. We can't free flow to other countries without a process and papers and rules etc. and if we are the only ones with an open border.....well, the world will tilt and fly off it's axis. LOL

If more people was the secret to wealth and prosperity, then why isn't China and India thriving on their own?

All very good comments and were my thoughts also.

For what it's worth (and I think this is a "biggy"):

If there are no borders, language or culture - then there is no country. What is left to fight for or defend? What did my Dad and so many other veterans sacrifice for? If we open the borders to everyone we would obviously have no country to call own.

I know I can't change this OBL, that will have to come with some sort of divine intervention. My hope is one day he will have a light bulb moment and see the error in his ways.

His reply to me was so polite and not the usual sarcasm you get from the leftys that I felt compelled to mull his answer over more than I usually would have. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain around why someone would want borders open because none of thier answers - no matter how polite (or not) make any sense to me and carry very little merit.

Once I get time to reply, I will ask him if he knows about the New World Order and the NAU among other things. I'm not trying to stir up any trouble, just curious as to what the OBL's thoughts are on some of these things. I will keep it polite in hopes he will leave it on his website and others passing though might see our "polite conversation".

IMO the whole point for Open Borders proponents is to ensure that the world is run for the convenience of corporate executives.

If nationhood is important, then citizens are important, if borders are important, then national laws are important. If it's Americans first, well that's just a horror story.

Holy Moly, this guy says he's studied a great deal on this?
If we simply open our borders to anyone in the world overnight we could have a million people with little skills on their way here, and that's just the start! There's not enough jobs here as it is now so where will these people work so they can pay taxes? What about health checks and communitable disease control? Where will these people live? How will they cope with moving from a tropical climate to the desert? Are they mentaly stable or will they wig out? Many will wind up on welfare, who's going to pay for all of that?
Your "friend" is going on the assumption that all people are good, kind, caring people who work hard, don't steal or use drugs and simply want a better life and that America has all the room in the world for them, not to mention the resourses to support them. It simply ain't so! If this were the case they wouldn't have any need or desire to come here.