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Thread: Neither Cruz nor Rubio are Natural Born citizens

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  1. #1
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    Neither Cruz nor Rubio are Natural Born citizens

    I tried to find an old thread on this issue but didn't, so I started this one.

    There are Three kinds of citizenship: A) Natural Born; B) Natural citizen; C) Naturalized Citizen.

    Caution: Many people confuse Natural citizen with Natural Born. The two are slightly different. Anchor babies are Natural citizens. Having one parent as a US citizen makes one a Natural citizen.

    To be a Natural Born citizen has some HIGH Standards: You have to have TWO US Citizens as Parents and be born ON THE SOIL of America.

    Here are three articles to instruct on that:

    John Roland "McCain, Obama, Cruz, Not Natural Born citizens"
    http://www.constitution.org/abus/pres_elig.htm


    Examiner, "Cruz not citizen at birth".
    http://www.examiner.com/article/proo...tizen-at-birth


    Dr. Swier "Cruz is NOT EVEN a US Citizen"
    http://drrichswier.com/2016/02/07/te...itizen-at-all/


    Cruz was born ON Canadian soil, so Canadian law, which disallows dual citizenship, dictates that status of Ted Cruz. Rubio was born on American Soil, making him a Natural Citizen, but not Natural Born for his Parents were still Cuban citizens! Neither one is eligible to be President of the US. And why the Republican Party doesn't put a stop to this--is hypocritical and faulty. Rush Limbaugh also fails here. He talks of the Rule of Law and Original Intent but when it comes to Cruz--Rush throws this all under the bus.

    Cruz is NOT even eligible to be a US Senator.

    John Roland above makes it clear that John McCain was NOT Natural Born. In an offside note, not even Barry Goldwater who was running for Republican President in the late sixties was a Natural Born citizen! He was born in the Arizona Territory. Not on US Soil!

    So this is a big mess! And this shows there is NO Rule of Law in the country. That the Constitution is just dirt and all this talk of Original Intent and being a "conservative" is just all balderdash! Just Idiotic.

    We live in Absurdistan run by an Idiocracy!
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  2. #2
    Senior Member ReformUSA2012's Avatar
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    Yah but the sh*t part at this time is the SCOTUS won't rule the right way or they would invalidate Obama completely which we all know they won't be willing to do. To invalidate Obama would be to undo everything he has done or even touched unless the next President wanted to sign off on all of it. It would create such a disaster at this point (which I'd be willing to put up with honestly) that the SCOTUS won't go doing what they should. Further a ruling on what a Natural Born Citizen is that doesn't favor Obama would right off remove 2 SCOTUS justices and they won't be recusing themselves from the case due to that and they won't be voting against Obama as well.

    Congress would have to pass an Act of Congress declaring its understanding of what a NBC is and the GOP and DNC have to much to lose if they do the right thing.
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    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    NO AMNESTY

    Don't reward the criminal actions of millions of illegal aliens by giving them citizenship.


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    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    'Natural Born' Issue for Ted Cruz Is Not Settled
    NO AMNESTY

    Don't reward the criminal actions of millions of illegal aliens by giving them citizenship.


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    Senior Member MontereySherry's Avatar
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    by Ilona Bray, J.D
    If you were to try to read the U.S. law concerning dual citizenship – that is, simultaneously holding U.S. citizenship and citizenship in another country -- you wouldn’t find much solid information. Nowhere does the law say that a person can be a dual citizen with the United States -- but then, nowhere does it say that one can’t.
    Historically, the U.S. government has used this vagueness as an opportunity to make people believe that choosing U.S. citizenship excludes all others. The oath that people take at their swearing-in ceremony (quoted below) would make anyone think that they were agreeing to give up all other citizenships right then and there. It says that the person will “absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which [you] have heretofore been a subject or citizen.”
    However, the fact of the matter is that the United States will not actually stop someone from keeping citizenship in another country after becoming a U.S. citizen. Nor will it cancel the U.S. citizenship of someone who becomes a citizen of another country. The key is whether the other country’s laws allow it.
    Many people today successfully hold dual citizenship—that is, they are simultaneously U.S. citizens and citizens of another country.

    What’s So Great About Dual Citizenship?
    Dual citizenship can be important for a number of reasons. Some people feel a huge sense of loss in giving up the passport of the country they once called home. More practically, the laws of their home country may require that giving up other important rights along with the citizenship—such as rights to a pension, to receive government-paid health care if the person becomes elderly or disabled, to vote, or to own land there.
    Dual Citizenship Laws in Other Countries Around the World
    A slim majority of countries around the globe do allow dual citizenship, at least in some form. Some countries allow it automatically upon your obtaining citizenship, others allow it after an application process, and still others offer something less than full citizenship, with or without an application.
    Canada and a fair number of European countries, (for example, Albania, Bulgaria, France, Greece, Hungary, Poland, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom) allow dual citizenship, while most Asian countries (such as China, India, Japan, Singapore, and Vietnam) do not.
    Look for further information on the website of the embassy of the country in question, or talk to your consular representative.
    Can You Apply to the U.S. Government for Dual Citizenship?
    Because the U.S. government does not formally sanction dual citizenship, there are no particular procedures to follow if you become a naturalized U.S.citizen but want to keep your old citizenship. No one will give you a certificate or other evidence that the U.S. government recognizes and approves your dual status. Your home country, however, may require more.
    First, find out whether your home country will cancel your citizenship if you are naturalized as a U.S. citizen. If cancellation isn’t automatic, find out whether you have to take special steps to keep your home citizenship.

    http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/...tion-laws.html



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    Last edited by MontereySherry; 02-08-2016 at 11:56 PM.

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    There should not be dual citizenship in the US and if need be, as it now appears, it should be banned. No one in our country should be able to vote, draw social security, breed a citizen, or run for public office if they hold citizenship in another country. Period.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member MontereySherry's Avatar
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    Two Categories of Citizenships

    There are two categories of citizenship:[1]

    1. Natural born
    2. Naturalized

    Natural Born

    Natural born citizenship is the acquirement of citizenship at the moment of birth.[2]
    There are only two types of natural born citizen:

    1. Native-born is being born within the territory of the state or commonwealth under the principle of jus soli,
    2. Attaining citizenship through the parents’ citizenship status under the principle of jus sanguinis.

    Jus Soli
    The principle of birthright citizenship gained through being born within a country is called jus soli (Latin for “right of soil”). It isn’t dependent on the citizenship of the parents.[2]
    In the United States the principle of jus soli goes back to before the creation of the Constitution. Territorial birthright citizenship was first formally established under English common law in the 1608 case of Calvin v. Smith (77 Eng. Rep. 377 (K.B. 160) whose decision was based upon the feudal relationship between a king or lord with their subjects in the early English feudal system.[3]
    The Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution confirmed this birthright citizenship in the pertinent part of Section 1,
    “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” [Note 1]
    It has been presumed that any person born within the territory of the United States, including the children of illegal aliens, are granted citizenship under the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. [2] The only exception is for foreign diplomats’ and officers’ children.[4 and Note 2]
    Jus Sanguinis
    The other natural born citizenship birthright is called jus sanguinis (Latin for “right of blood”). Jus sanguinis is based on having an ancestor or parent (often the father), who is a national or citizen of the state.[2]
    Jus sanguinis has even a longer history under English common law than jus soli. The concept of jus sanguinis dates back to at least 1351 when the statute de Natis Ultra Mare (25 Edw. 3, Stat. 2 (1351)) was passed. This statute became necessary due to King Edwards III’s overseas military campaigns. The statute goes beyond just granting citizenship to the children of those in the King’s service, to include “all children born beyond the sea whose fathers and mothers were at the faith and ligeance of the king of England, and provided that the mothers had gone outside the realm with the permission of their husbands, could inherit, i.e., that they were subjects.”[5]
    The concept of Jus sanguinis did influence the creation of the Constitution in the United States. The Naturalization Act of 1790 ((1 Stat. 103) March 26, 1790) clarifies this type of natural born citizen by declaring that “the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens.” Thusly the act establishes the United States citizenship of citizens’ children, who are born abroad, without the need for naturalization.[Note 3]
    Congress again confirmed jus sanguinis citizenship birthright in the Naturalization Act of 1795 (January 29, 1795 (1 Stat. 414)) “and the children of citizens of the United States, born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, shall be considered as citizens of the United States.” While this leaves out the term natural-born, it does declare them to be citizens by-birth through their parents and therefore do not need the process of naturalization to become citizens.[Note 4]
    Naturalization

    The other type of citizenship is through the legal process called Naturalization.[6] “Naturalization is the process by which U.S. citizenship is conferred upon a foreign citizen or national after he or she fulfills the requirements established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). All naturalization applicants must demonstrate good moral character, attachment, and favorable disposition. The other naturalization requirements may be modified or waived for certain applicants, such as spouses of U.S. citizens. The general requirements for administrative naturalization include:

    • a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States;
    • residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing;
    • an ability to read, write, and speak English;
    • a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;
    • good moral character;
    • attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,
    • favorable disposition toward the United States.”

    U.S. Constitution

    While the U.S. Constitution requires a person to be a “natural born” Citizen to qualify for the Office of the President of the United States,
    No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President, it doesn’t define what is meant by a “natural born” citizen [6] nor is it discussed much among the Founding Fathers.

    It is well settled law that “native-born” citizens qualify for the Office of the President because they are “natural-born” and that naturalized citizens do not qualify.[7] “But whether a person born abroad of American parents, or of one American and one alien parent, qualifies as natural born has never been resolved.”

    https://truthmonk.wordpress.com/2008...d-definitions/
    Last edited by MontereySherry; 02-09-2016 at 12:58 AM.

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    Native born is not natural born under the US Constitution. Native born is the result of the 14th Amendment that occurred 80 years after the US Constitution was ratified for children of freed slaves whose parents were not citizens at the time of their birth and this Amendment did not amend Article II.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member MontereySherry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    There should not be dual citizenship in the US and if need be, as it now appears, it should be banned. No one in our country should be able to vote, draw social security, breed a citizen, or run for public office if they hold citizenship in another country. Period.
    Judy I don't disagree with you. I was furious when doing research on Mexico giving dual citizenship to children of illegals living in the U.S. and having a sister in law that is Canadian I knew about Canada allowing dual citizenship. I have been in many arguments about woman in Canada flying across the border to have their babies. I was just posting this because I saw misinformation posted and I am all about everyone having the facts.
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    Oh I know you were posting the information and that didn't mean it was your view. The whole citizenship thing is out of control. It's just crazy. Children of green cards and visas become US citizens when their parents are citizens of other countries. Children of illegal aliens become US citizens when their parents aren't even supposed to be in the country let alone breeding in our jurisdiction. A Cuban enters the US on a phony student visa he bribed a Batista official for to attend the University of Texas, then scoots off to Canada during the Vietnam War, takes his American wife with him, he or they become Canadian citizens, have a child in Canada, then somehow re-enter the US and claim US citizenship for their child who already has Canadian citizenship?! Oh no, this has to end.
    JohnK, artist, pkskyali and 1 others like this.

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