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  1. #1
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    The New Nullification Crisis: GOPers Vow To Defy SCOTUS Over Gay Marriage

    The New Nullification Crisis: GOPers Vow To Defy SCOTUS Over Gay Marriage



    ByTIERNEY SNEED
    Published JUNE 16, 2015, 6:00 AM EDT
    15384 Views



    Ahead of a potentially historic Supreme Court ruling, leading Republicans are vowing to defy any decision that sanctions same-sex marriage and are challenging the very legitimacy of the high court.

    With a decision in Obergefell v. Hodges expected before the end of June, conservatives are confronted with what was only a few years ago a nearly unthinkable possibility: a Supreme Court decision that decisively makes same-sex marriage a constitutional right.


    Fearing a huge setback to their cause, opponents of same-sex marriage, including some of the major contenders for the 2016 GOP presidential nomination, are darkly warning that they will not "honor" an adverse Supreme Court decision. Some are calling for civil disobedience. Others are moving to strip the Supreme Court of its authority to decide whether gay couples should be allowed to marry, while others have questioned whether the court has that jurisdiction in the first place. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) has said that such a decision would be "fundamentally illegitimate."

    Those who are merely calling for a new constitutional amendment to enshrine marriage as between one man and one woman now seem almost quaint in their desire to use the ordinary constitutional process to counter the Supreme Court.


    Here are some of the leading proponents of the new nullification:


    Rick Santorum



    Former Sen. Rick Santorum, on NBC's Meet the Press last month, vowed to fight a Supreme Court decision in favor of same-sex marriage: “We’re not bound by what nine people say in perpetuity.”


    "I think it's important to understand that the Supreme Court doesn't have the final word," Santorum told viewers. "It has its word. Its word has validity. But it's important for Congress and the president, frankly, to push back when the Supreme Court gets it wrong."

    Santorum is among the signers of the anti-gay marriage pledge being circulated by a group associated with the website DefendMarriage.Org. The group recently placed a full-page ad in The Washington Post with an open letter to the Supreme Court promising civil disobedience if the court struck down bans on gay marriage.

    “We will not honor any decision by the Supreme Court which will force us to violate a clear biblical understanding of marriage as solely the union of one man and one woman,” the letter said. Its originator, Baptist pastor Rick Scarborough, has promised his fellow signers -- some 50,000 people by the website’s count -- will “resist all government efforts to require them to accept gay marriage, and they will accept any fine and jail time to protect their religious freedom and the freedom of others."


    Mike Huckabee



    The former Arkansas governor also signed the DefendMarriage.Org civil disobedience pledge, and suggested that if elected president, he would ignore a Supreme Court ruling in favor of same-sex marriage.


    “Presidents have understood that the Supreme Court cannot make a law, they cannot make it, the legislature has to make it, the executive branch has to sign it and enforce it,” Huckabee told Fox News’ Chris Wallace. “And the notion that the Supreme Court comes up with the ruling and that automatically subjects the two other branches to following it defies everything there is about the three equal branches of government.”


    Ted Cruz



    In addition to proposing the more temperate course of a new constitutional amendment to limit marriage to straight couples, Cruz introduced a bill in the Senate that would bar federal courts from weighing in on marriage until that amendment was passed, Bloomberg reported in April.


    “If the court tries to do this it will be rampant judicial activism. It will be lawlessness, it will be fundamentally illegitimate,” he said during an Iowa campaign stop earlier this spring.


    Ben Carson



    Ben Carson has expressed doubt that a Supreme Court decision favoring same-sex marriage would need to be enforced.


    "First of all, we have to understand how the Constitution works. The president is required to carry out the laws of the land, the laws of the land come from the legislative branch," Carson said in May. "So if the legislative branch creates a law or changes a law, the executive branch has a responsibly to carry it out.

    It doesn’t say they have the responsibility to carry out a judicial law. And that's something we need to talk about."


    Steve King



    Like Cruz, Rep. Steve King (R-IA) has also introduced legislation prohibiting courts -- including the Supreme Court -- from considering the question of same-sex marriage, by taking on Article III of the Constitution.


    "We could pass this bill before the Supreme Court could even hear the oral arguments, let alone bring a decision down in June," King said when introducing the bill in early April. "That would stop it right then, there would be no decision coming out of the Supreme Court. This is a brake, and whether we can get the brake on or not between now and June, that we don't know."


    Tom DeLay



    In addition to signing the civil disobedience pledge, the former GOP House majority leader has advocated for states to ignore a Supreme Court ruling in favor of same-sex marriage.


    "A ruling by the Supreme Court is nothing but an opinion if the legislative branch and the executive branch do not enforce it," DeLay said on Newsmax TV’s The Steve Malzberg Show. "Not only that, if the states would just invoke the 10th Amendment and assert their sovereignty, they can defy a ruling by the Supreme Court. It's in the Constitution. We can tell the court what cases they can hear."


    Texas State Rep. Cecil Bell



    Texas Democrats thwarted a bill sponsored by Republican state Rep. Cecil Bell that would have prohibited state and local governments from recognizing, granting or enforcing same-sex marriage licenses. Nevertheless, when the statehouse was considering the bill, Bell was skeptical that a Supreme Court ruling would bring same-sex marriage to the state.


    "If the Supreme Court sets a precedent that says same-sex marriage is a legal precedent that states should adhere, that states will suddenly flock to that precedent and begin to conform...the reality is that when the Supreme Court sets precedents, states don’t always adhere to them," he told TPM at the time. "I am not predicting what Texas will do -- but to assume that Texas will suddenly change how it does business is presumptuous."


    Alabama State Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore



    Alabama’s top judge can boast of the coveted accomplishment of having already defied the Supreme Court when it allowed same-sex marriage to become legal in his state. Right before a federal ruling striking down the state's marriage ban was to take effect, state Chief Justice Roy Moore issued an order barring local probate judges from issuing same-sex marriage licenses.


    "When federal courts start changing our Constitution by defining words that are not even there, like marriage, they're going to do the same thing with family in the future,” he later said, doubling down on his order. "When a word’s not in the Constitution, clearly the powers of the Supreme Court do not allow them to redefine words and seize power.”

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/who-...rt-on-marriage
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Our country is falling apart, our citizens are falling into poverty and homelessness faster than we can them or the ways in which this occurs, and GOPers are worried about gay people getting married. Not one of the people above deserve to be President, not one. Picking on homosexuals may be someone's religion, but picking on them under the law is not religion, it's just plain wrong.

    Anti-gay Americans need to kick back and ask themselves why do you care if two people, because they're gay, want to be married and by so doing have the same legal protections as straight couples, as long as they're of consent age and not already married to someone else, why do you care? Furthermore, just because you don't like it or in your mind don't think it's right, why do you want the government and politicians involved in personal matters like this? If you don't believe in gay marriage, then don't marry one. Simple solution.
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    Two-Thirds of Democrats Now Support Gay Marriage


    Overview

    Reports that the Democratic Party may add support for gay marriage to its party platform are in keeping with a significant shift of opinion on this issue among Democrats nationwide. Just four years ago, in 2008, only half (50%) of Democrats favored allowing gays and lesbians to marry legally, while 42% were opposed. Support for gay marriage among Democrats has jumped to 65% today, more than double the percentage that is opposed (29%).

    The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life and the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted June 28-July 9, 2012, among 2,973 adults, finds that the partisan divide over gay marriage continues to widen. Just 24% of Republicans now favor allowing gays and lesbians to marry legally, which is only slightly higher than the percentage of Republicans who supported gay marriage in 2008 (19%).
    Independent support for gay marriage has grown substantially since 2008. More independents today favor (51%) than oppose (40%) gay marriage; four years ago independents were divided evenly (44% favor, 45% oppose).
    While President Obama’s endorsement of gay marriage earlier this year drew significant news coverage and public interest, its effect on public opinion has been limited. Two consecutive national surveys conducted since May 9, when Obama made his announcement, show 48% in favor of allowing gay marriage and 44% opposed. This is virtually unchanged from a survey conducted in April, before the president’s statement.
    But Obama’s announcement may have rallied the Democratic base – particularly liberal Democrats – to the issue. Democrats supported gay marriage by a 59% to 31% margin in April – that stands at 65% to 29% today. Most of this shift has come among liberal Democrats, 83% of whom now support gay marriage, up from 73% earlier this year.

    Attitudes have not shifted among any other segment of the public following Obama’s announcement, including younger Americans, who continue to back gay marriage at the same rate as before, and African Americans, who remain, on balance, opposed to gay marriage.
    Part of the long-term growth in support for gay marriage is linked to changing public views about homosexuality in general. A Los Angeles Times survey in 1985 found just 20% of the public believed that homosexuality was something that people are born with, while twice as many (42%) said it was just the way some people prefer to live. Today, the balance of opinion is quite different: 41% say homosexuality is something people are born with, while 35% say it is a personal preference.
    But views of homosexuality have changed relatively slowly, if at all, in recent years. About half (51%) of Americans believe a person’s sexual orientation is something that cannot be changed, while 36% believe it can. That is little different from six years ago, when the balance was 49% vs. 39%. Similarly, the share who say homosexuality is something people are born with is up only five percentage points (from 36% to 41%) since 2006 – a period in which support for gay marriage jumped by 13 percentage points (from 35% to 48%) and support for gay adoption jumped 10 points (from 42% to 52%).
    Those who believe homosexuality is something people are born with have consistently been the most supportive of gay marriage, and that support has risen substantially in recent years, to 76% in the new poll. By comparison, there has been little change among those who say homosexuality is the way that some people prefer to live; 63% of this group opposes gay marriage.
    However, there has been a rise in support for gay marriage across many demographic groups, even those who have traditionally been the most opposed. While the share of African Americans who support gay marriage is no higher today than it was before Obama’s endorsement of gay marriage (40% currently, 39% in April), it is up substantially from 26% in 2008 and 21% in 2004. Today 28% of people who attend church services at least weekly support gay marriage, up from 23% in 2008 and 16% in 2004.

    A large portion of the growth in acceptance of gay marriage over the past two decades is the result of generational replacement — the arrival of younger, more supportive generations making up a larger share of the population. But the pace of change in support for gay marriage has increased in recent years across generational lines. Millennials have consistently been the most supportive of gay marriage, but even here the share in favor of allowing gays and lesbians to marry has jumped from 54% to 63% since 2008. Similarly, support is up from 44% to 52% in Generation X.
    Even among the older Silent generation, which has been the most opposed to allowing gay marriage in recent years, there is increased support. Currently, 33% of the Silent generation favors gay marriage, up from 24% in 2008.
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    Southern Baptists: Supreme Court is not final authority on gay marriage

    By Todd Starnes
    Published June 16, 2015


    (AP)

    The president of the Southern Baptist Convention has a message regarding the looming Supreme Court decision on same-sex marriage: We will not obey.

    “The Supreme Court of the United States is not the final authority nor is the culture itself,” declared Ronnie Floyd, the elected leader of the nation’s largest Protestant denomination. “The Bible is God’s final authority about marriage and on this book we stand.”

    Dr. Floyd’s powerful and provocative comments were met with thunderous applause and standing ovations from thousands of Southern Baptist messengers meeting in Columbus, Ohio.





    “While some evangelicals may be bowing down to the deception of the inclusiveness of same-sex marriage, we will not bow down nor will we be silent,” Floyd declared in a fiery speech on Tuesday. “We do not need to redefine what God Himself has defined already.”
    And from there Dr. Floyd went to where few prominent pastors have gone before – a Supreme Court showdown.

    The issue facing Southern Baptists is one that will face every person of faith in the United States – do you follow God or the government?

    “America – we stand believing that marriage is the uniting of one man and one woman in covenant commitment for a lifetime,” he said in a thundering speech. “We have believed this and do believe this and will continue to believe this as a convention of churches. We stand for biblical and traditional marriage.”


    Dr. Floyd reminded the gathering of something German theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer once said: “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”


    “This is a Bonhoeffer moment for every pastor in the United States,” Floyd said, warning ministers that the time has come for every minister to stand strongly and clearly – regardless of the cost.


    “That’s what Bonhoeffer did,” he said.


    The pending decision over gay marriage weighed heavily on the minds of many Southern Baptists and messengers will consider a resolution calling on all Christians to stand firm on the biblical definition of marriage.


    “Resolved, that Southern Baptists recognize that no governing institution has the authority to negate or usurp God’s definition of marriage; and be it further resolved no matter how the Supreme Court rules, the Southern Baptist Convention reaffirms its unwavering commitment to its doctrinal and public beliefs concerning marriage,” the resolution reads in part.


    Evangelical Christians across America fear that a decision legalizing same-sex marriage will have a devastating impact on religious liberty.


    A growing number of Christians have already faced persecution because of their objections to gay marriage. Public workers have lost their jobs, private business owners have been slapped with lawsuits and complaints and private citizens have been bullied and harassed for signing pro-traditional marriage petitions.


    It’s not exactly clear how the Southern Baptist Convention’s defiance will manifest itself --- but Floyd revealed his personal plan.

    “I declare to everyone today as a minister of the Gospel – I will not officiate over any same-sex unions or same-sex marriage ceremonies,” he said. “I completely refuse.”

    Dr. Floyd stood resolute – ready to face of what I am sure will be national attacks from intolerant bullies and the radical speech police. There is no doubt he will be called a homophobic bigot. I’m sure some will label his remarks as hate speech.


    I urge you to ignore them and truly listen to this brave man of God’s words – his call to “love and respect those who do not agree with us.”

    “And while we affirm our love for all people, including those struggling with same-sex attraction, we cannot and will not affirm any behavior that deviates from God’s design for marriage,” he said.

    The issue facing Southern Baptists is one that will face every person of faith in the United States – do you follow God or the government?

    “Our first commitment is to God and His Word – nothing else and no one else,” Dr. Floyd said matter-of-factly.

    Amen, sir. Amen.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/...-marriage.html

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    I am a Southern Baptist, and God does not say to hate gay people, or to discriminate against gay people, or to treat them differently under the law in the United States. God does not say that. Wicked men pretending to be messengers of God say that, but you are not messengers of God, you are bigots hiding behind government to do your wickedness.

    It’s not exactly clear how the Southern Baptist Convention’s defiance will manifest itself --- but Floyd revealed his personal plan.
    “I declare to everyone today as a minister of the Gospel – I will not officiate over any same-sex unions or same-sex marriage ceremonies,” he said. “I completely refuse.”

    Dr. Floyd stood resolute – ready to face of what I am sure will be national attacks from intolerant bullies and the radical speech police. There is no doubt he will be called a homophobic bigot. I’m sure some will label his remarks as hate speech.


    I urge you to ignore them and truly listen to this brave man of God’s words – his call to “love and respect those who do not agree with us.”

    “And while we affirm our love for all people, including those struggling with same-sex attraction, we cannot and will not affirm any behavior that deviates from God’s design for marriage,” he said.

    The issue facing Southern Baptists is one that will face every person of faith in the United States – do you follow God or the government?

    “Our first commitment is to God and His Word – nothing else and no one else,” Dr. Floyd said matter-of-factly.
    Not only are you bigots, you're stupid. Same-sex marriage laws don't require any minister to marry anyone. There is no law that requires any minister of any church to marry anyone. In Mississippi, Southern Baptists refuse to marry black people, still to this day, won't even let them use their church to have the ceremony.

    Don't hide behind our dear Jesus and shame his name with this bigotry and hate. If you don't believe in gay marriage, then don't marry one. Period. No law forces you do it, no law will force you to do it, in fact there's no law that forces you to even be a minister.

    Same-sex marriage laws aren't about your religion, your church or your minister. Same-sex marraige laws are about the role of government in granting marital legal protections for married gay couples so they can enjoy equal protection under the law regarding their personal legal and financial concerns, and has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's religion, their church property, let alone their crazy ministers.

    As a lifetime Southern Baptist, I am ashamed of my church and its deviation from its proper role as a 501 C 3 to STAY OUT OF POLITICS. This is the law, that 501 C 3 churches are not to use their organization to lobby, impact public policy or influence the outcome of elections. If your organization wants to do those things, then you need to forfeit your 501 C 3 tax-exempt status and start paying your own way.

    And by the way, God didn't call for marriage at all, men did that in his name. There was no "minister" who married Adam and Eve or any of their offspring, so keep that in mind as you invent God's Word. After all, if God had wanted a "minister" to marry Adam and Eve before they hooked-up, He certainly would have a created a "minister" to perform the ceremony.
    Last edited by Judy; 06-16-2015 at 09:12 PM.
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  6. #6
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    I am a Southern Baptist, and God does not say to hate gay people, or to discriminate against gay people, or to treat them differently under the law in the United States. God does not say that. Wicked men pretending to be messengers of God say that, but you are not messengers of God, you are bigots hiding behind government to do your wickedness.



    Not only are you bigots, you're stupid. Same-sex marriage laws don't require any minister to marry anyone. There is no law that requires any minister of any church to marry anyone. In Mississippi, Southern Baptists refuse to marry black people, still to this day, won't even let them use their church to have the ceremony.

    Don't hide behind our dear Jesus and shame his name with this bigotry and hate. If you don't believe in gay marriage, then don't marry one. Period. No law forces you do it, no law will force you to do it, in fact there's no law that forces you to even be a minister.

    Same-sex marriage laws aren't about your religion, your church or your minister. Same-sex marraige laws are about the role of government in granting marital legal protections for married gay couples so they can enjoy equal protection under the law regarding their personal legal and financial concerns, and has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's religion, their church property, let alone their crazy ministers.

    As a lifetime Southern Baptist, I am ashamed of my church and its deviation from its proper role as a 501 C 3 to STAY OUT OF POLITICS. This is the law, that 501 C 3 churches are not to use their organization to lobby, impact public policy or influence the outcome of elections. If your organization wants to do those things, then you need to forfeit your 501 C 3 tax-exempt status and start paying your own way.

    And by the way, God didn't call for marriage at all, men did that in his name. There was no "minister" who married Adam and Eve or any of their offspring, so keep that in mind as you invent God's Word. After all, if God had wanted a "minister" to marry Adam and Eve before they hooked-up, He certainly would have a created a "minister" to perform the ceremony.
    It's almost funny on how different we view social issues considering I too am a lifetime Southern Baptist and Republican, of which you claim to be both too.

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  7. #7
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    The issue facing Southern Baptists is one that will face every person of faith in the United States – do you follow God or the government?
    Did a Southern Baptist Convention President really say this?!!! You follow neither. You believe in God and the government works for US, not the other way around. Did he mean to say do we follow the law? Americans have been widely known not to follow the law especially ones that impinge upon natural rights or individual freedom. Americans are a hard crowd to corral, whether you're a Minister trying to corral your flock into your pews or a government trying to corral you into submission.

    Ronnie Floyd is a very confused person. And his statements show he's out of control, doesn't know his own place, his own legal role as a leader of 501 c 3 organization, and he best settle down. No one cares if Southern Baptist churches don't want to perform gay marriage ceremonies. The country could care less. Same-sex marriage isn't about Southern Baptists or Republicans or Conservatives, it's about equal rights for people who happen to be gay, and yes different than other people in that regard, who want to love and marry the person they love and have legal and financial protections under the law. Marriage is a contract between two people, and there's no reason to deny 2 people of the same sex the same legal protections afforded 2 people of different sexes. Same-sex marraige only has to do with law, not religion, not churches, not ministers, not flocks or congregations. If you run a bakery and don't want to make them a cake, then you have every right to move your bakery where you are not on a public street, with a public sidewalk, and are far away from tax-payer funded infrastructure and services that gay people pay for the same as everyone else.

    Dr. Floyd reminded the gathering of something German theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer once said: “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”
    For Dr. Floyd to quote a German theologian who was talking about the Nazis in that quote, a man who was imprisoned and hung at the age of 39 by the Nazis for speaking out against them and being involved in a plot to assassinate Adolph Hitler, and apply this to gay couples who just want to get married and have legal and financial protections under the law ... and yes a wedding cake .... is just beyond the pale and shows how far and low the Southern Baptist Convention has sunk.

    It is no wonder memberships are declining in the SBC. Who would want to be part of an organization that classifies gay marriage as the same evil of the Nazis and Adolph Hitler? Only an insane person would think such a thing.

    Furthermore, Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a Lutheran, and the Lutheran Church in America not only supports gay rights, it just installed a gay bishop who has lived with his partner for over 20 years, to lead their SW California assembly, and he and his partner married in 2013.

    Is this same-sex married Lutheran Bishop, an ordained man of God, "evil"? No, this Lutheran Bishop is not evil, he's just gay. His name is Guy Irwin, a Native American from the Osage Nation, who graduated from Harvard for his undergraduate degree and from Yale University for his two Masters degrees and a Ph.D. This is a smart, hard-working, educated gay man who is now married and a significant leader of the Lutheran Church, the same theology of Dietrich Bonhoeffer who gave his life defending the Jews from Hitler.

    So, when Dr. Ronnie Floyd blunders a quote of such worldly importance as the Dietrich Bonhoeffer quote to bash gays, he not only shows himself to be a bigot through to his core, but a very uneducated stupid one at that.
    Last edited by Judy; 06-17-2015 at 04:46 AM.
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    Southern Baptists urged to reject any laws legalizing gay marriage

    By Todd Starnes
    Published June 17, 2015 FoxNews.com



    Prepare for civil disobedience.


    That’s the message one prominent pastor is sending to some 16 million members of the Southern Baptist Convention.


    Jack Graham, pastor of Prestonwood Baptist Church in Texas, said American Christians should be prepared for massive fallout if the Supreme Court legalizes same-sex unions.


    “We want to stay in the system,” Graham told me in a telephone interview. “We want to work in the system. We want to support our government. We want to obey its laws.”


    But.


    “But there’s a coming a day, I believe, that many Christians personally and churches corporately will need to practice civil disobedience on this issue.”


    The foundation for such a possibility was laid Wednesday morning in Columbus, Ohio where the current and former presidents of the nation’s largest Protestant denomination sent a strong message to the country.

    What would it look like if 16 million Southern Baptists engaged in civil disobedience?

    “We strongly encourage all Southern Baptist pastors, leaders, educators and churches to openly reject any mandated legal definition of marriage and to use their influence to affirm God’s design for life and relationships,” the statement declared.


    While affirming their love for all people – regardless of sexual orientation, the former Southern Baptist presidents said the “cannot and will not affirm the moral acceptability of homosexual behavior or any behavior that deviates from God’s design for marriage.”


    “Our first duty is to love and obey God, not man,” they emphatically stated.


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    Graham, who was elected president in 2003 and 2004, was among those signing the statement. In all – some 35 years of Southern Baptist leadership was represented.


    He told me Christians must be prepared for the aftermath of a court decision that legalizes gay marriage.


    “Many people must be willing to count the cost on this,” he said.

    So what would it look like if 16 million Southern Baptists engaged in civil disobedience?

    “I hope we never live to find out what that looks like,” Graham told me. “There are many Christians today who are preparing if necessary to go to jail.”


    I’ve known Pastor Graham for years and I’ve never known him to use hyperbole. His words and his predictions are sobering. And he hopes the Supreme Court and Washington, D.C. hear what Southern Baptists are saying.


    “We want them to know our voices will be heard,” he declared.


    The issue of same-sex marriage has already been addressed by attendees at the denomination’s annual meeting. Delegates, known as messengers, approved a resolution opposing gay marriage and Southern Baptist Convention President Ronnie Floyd delivering a fiery sermon vowing not to obey the court’s decision.


    Graham said they are calling on Southern Baptist business owners and public sector workers to stand together as well – knowing full well they could lose their jobs and careers.


    “We are concerned about Southern Baptist Christians in the marketplace – in the media and corporate world,” he said.


    He related the story of a deacon in his church who politely declined participation in his company’s “diversity day.”


    “He’s already been sent to human resources and he received a semi-threatening letter from the CEO,” Graham said. “It’s already happening – the punishment – the discrimination.”


    Denominational leaders are warning churches and Christian schools to be prepared for potential lawsuits from LGBT activists as well as the threat of losing tax exempt status.


    “The punch that is most deadly is the one you don’t see coming,” Graham said. “You need to see this coming. It’s coming your way.

    It’s coming to a town, a city, a university, a college, a church near you,” he said.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/...-marriage.html

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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/...-marriage.html

    Southern Baptists urged to reject any laws legalizing gay marriage



    By Todd Starnes
    Published June 17, 2015 FoxNews.com



    Prepare for civil disobedience.

    That’s the message one prominent pastor is sending to some 16 million members of the Southern Baptist Convention.


    Jack Graham, pastor of Prestonwood Baptist Church in Texas, said American Christians should be prepared for massive fallout if the Supreme Court legalizes same-sex unions.


    “We want to stay in the system,” Graham told me in a telephone interview. “We want to work in the system. We want to support our government. We want to obey its laws.”


    But.


    “But there’s a coming a day, I believe, that many Christians personally and churches corporately will need to practice civil disobedience on this issue.”


    The foundation for such a possibility was laid Wednesday morning in Columbus, Ohio where the current and former presidents of the nation’s largest Protestant denomination sent a strong message to the country.
    What would it look like if 16 million Southern Baptists engaged in civil disobedience?
    “We strongly encourage all Southern Baptist pastors, leaders, educators and churches to openly reject any mandated legal definition of marriage and to use their influence to affirm God’s design for life and relationships,” the statement declared.


    While affirming their love for all people – regardless of sexual orientation, the former Southern Baptist presidents said the “cannot and will not affirm the moral acceptability of homosexual behavior or any behavior that deviates from God’s design for marriage.”


    “Our first duty is to love and obey God, not man,” they emphatically stated.


    Graham, who was elected president in 2003 and 2004, was among those signing the statement. In all – some 35 years of Southern Baptist leadership was represented.

    He told me Christians must be prepared for the aftermath of a court decision that legalizes gay marriage.


    “Many people must be willing to count the cost on this,” he said.


    So what would it look like if 16 million Southern Baptists engaged in civil disobedience?


    “I hope we never live to find out what that looks like,” Graham told me. “There are many Christians today who are preparing if necessary to go to jail.”


    I’ve known Pastor Graham for years and I’ve never known him to use hyperbole. His words and his predictions are sobering. And he hopes the Supreme Court and Washington, D.C. hear what Southern Baptists are saying.


    “We want them to know our voices will be heard,” he declared.


    The issue of same-sex marriage has already been addressed by attendees at the denomination’s annual meeting. Delegates, known as messengers, approved a resolution opposing gay marriage and Southern Baptist Convention President Ronnie Floyd delivering a fiery sermon vowing not to obey the court’s decision.


    Graham said they are calling on Southern Baptist business owners and public sector workers to stand together as well – knowing full well they could lose their jobs and careers.


    “We are concerned about Southern Baptist Christians in the marketplace – in the media and corporate world,” he said.


    He related the story of a deacon in his church who politely declined participation in his company’s “diversity day.”


    “He’s already been sent to human resources and he received a semi-threatening letter from the CEO,” Graham said. “It’s already happening – the punishment – the discrimination.”


    Denominational leaders are warning churches and Christian schools to be prepared for potential lawsuits from LGBT activists as well as the threat of losing tax exempt status.


    “The punch that is most deadly is the one you don’t see coming,” Graham said. “You need to see this coming. It’s coming your way. It’s coming to a town, a city, a university, a college, a church near you,” he said.


    Todd Starnes is host of Fox News & Commentary, heard on hundreds of radio stations. His latest book is "God Less America: Real Stories From the Front Lines of the Attack on Traditional Values." Follow Todd on Twitter@ToddStarnes and find him on Facebook.
    Sounds to me like these men are afraid, very afraid, crazy afraid.

    "But."

    Of what?
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  10. #10
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    http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/...es-About-Fear/

    Bible Verses About Fear

    Bible verses related to Fear from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance

    - Sort By Book Order



    2 Timothy 1:7 - For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

    Isaiah 41:10 - Fear thou not; for I [am] with thee: be not dismayed; for I [am] thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

    Psalms 23:1-6 - (A Psalm of David.) The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want. (Read More...)

    1 John 4:18 - There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

    Psalms 34:4 - I sought the LORD, and he heard me, and delivered me from all my fears.

    Proverbs 29:25 - The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.

    Philippians 4:6 - Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

    Romans 8:15 - For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

    Psalms 56:3-4 - What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. (Read More...)

    Proverbs 19:23 - The fear of the LORD [tendeth] to life: and [he that hath it] shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil.

    Isaiah 43:1-3 - But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called [thee] by thy name; thou [art] mine. (Read More...)

    Psalms 111:10 - The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.

    Romans 8:38-39 - For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, (Read More...)

    Deuteronomy 7:21 - Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God [is] among you, a mighty God and terrible.

    Proverbs 14:27 - The fear of the LORD [is] a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

    1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Joshua 1:9 - Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God [is] with thee whithersoever thou goest.
    If gays move into your neighborhood and bring a dish to the block party, be not afraid, the Lord is with you and will protect you.
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