Thread: Our view on immigration: Licenses, in-state tuition for

Our view on immigration: Licenses, in-state tuition for illegal immigrants?
With Washington immobile, states choose pragmatism over nativism
http://blogs.usatoday.com



It was Sen. Hillary Clinton's turn to squirm when she was asked at last week's Democratic presidential debate whether she supports her home-state governor's plan to issue drivers' licenses to undocumented residents.

Clinton's equivocal answer — that Gov. Eliot Spitzer's proposal "makes a lot of sense," but "I did not say it should be done" — was not one of her finer moments.

But it was emblematic of the schizophrenic approach to immigration that's emerged in the four months since Congress' pitiful failure to pass a new immigration law.

Some states and localities have enacted rigid anti-immigrant legislation in hopes of driving away the more than 12 million illegal immigrants in the USA. A smaller number are going to the other extreme, trying to create safe havens.

But in between, an interesting mix of pragmatic approaches is developing on matters ranging from transportation to education. They try to cope with the reality that the immigrants are here and likely to stay. Two are particularly notable:

* Drivers' licenses. Illegal immigrants trying to support themselves and their families are going to drive, with or without licenses and insurance — a problem every time there is an accident. So the question for Spitzer and other governors becomes: What is the best way to ensure that they understand U.S. driving regulations, operate registered vehicles and carry insurance?

Spitzer first proposed issuing them licenses like everyone else, but that drew a loud rebuke from Homeland Security Department Secretary Michael Chertoff, who said it would undermine his attempts to make drivers' licenses a secure form of identification.

They compromised on a reasonable tiered licensing system that includes one marked "not for federal purposes." That permit would be available to undocumented workers for driving, but would not let them board planes or enter federal buildings.

* College access. Another inflammatory issue is whether undocumented students ought to get the lower, in-state tuition at public universities. For obvious reasons, the idea tends to prompt outrage. But look deeper, and it makes sense. Typically, the students who benefit were brought across the border as small children by parents looking for work and entered large, public schools in big cities.

Fewer than one in 10 of these children actually make it to college. The children who do make it are those with the most grit and drive — exactly the kind of immigrants the nation prizes.

That is why California and nine other states passed laws granting them in-state tuition rates. Generally, these states require that the students graduate from state high schools and sign affidavits swearing they will pursue citizenship if given the chance.

The latest federal failure to grapple with immigration played out last month when the Senate failed to advance the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act of 2007 known as DREAM, which targeted youths brought to this country before they turned 16. Those headed to college or military service would have been granted a path to citizenship.

Until the federal gridlock eases, state and local officials will continue to struggle with immigration problems.

Anti-immigrant rhetoric notwithstanding, millions of these people are not going to leave voluntarily or be deported. So who benefits if they remain unlicensed, uninsured and uneducated?

Coping with reality
Eight states allow undocumented immigrants to receive their drivers’ licenses or permits:
* Hawaii
* Maine
* Maryland
* Michigan
* New Mexico
* Oregon
* Utah
* Washington

Ten states have passed legislation that allows illegal residents to receive in-state tuition rates at public universities:
* California
* Illinois
* Kansas
* Nebraska
* New Mexico
* New York
* Oklahoma
* Texas
* Utah
* Washington

Source: National Immigration Law Center

What makes anybody think that issuing licenses will cause them to carry insurance? My son's car (that he paid for himself) was t-boned on New Year of 2003 by an uninsured motorist who was licensed. (not an immigrant, a gang member, not that either one matters). Even if they have to carry insurance to get the license, what will ensure that they keep up the premiums?

This is not a victimless crime. Even though my son was uninjured, his damaged car sat in my garage until he could get it fixed at his own expense and back on the road (state farm did not tell him about the insurance option that would have helped him). This experience, during his teens, sent him reeling into a disullusioned, faithless lifestyle from which the family had to rescue him. We had to fight the streets for him, but we won, after many years.

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

What makes anybody think that issuing licenses will cause them to carry insurance? My son's car (that he paid for himself) was t-boned on New Year of 2003 by an uninsured motorist who was licensed. (not an immigrant, a gang member, not that either one matters). Even if they have to carry insurance to get the license, what will ensure that they keep up the premiums?

This is not a victimless crime. Even though my son was uninjured, his damaged car sat in my garage until he could get it fixed at his own expense and back on the road (state farm did not tell him about the insurance option that would have helped him). This experience, during his teens, sent him reeling into a disullusioned, faithless lifestyle from which the family had to rescue him. We had to fight the streets for him, but we won, after many years.

Here in Ohio if you don’t carry insurance (car or not) they take your Driver License

I want to see any of those criminal immigrants that get those ids in those states, when they go to a room and they get the picture taken it is a room they get locked up in then walked straight to the bus back to there nation. Just tell them they can all get the Id on one certain day of the month and lock them up
Call it the DMV lotto
Cops do it all the time they call criminals up and say you’ve just won a free TV and poof off to years in jail.
It’s the most honest and ethical thing I can think of when dealing with criminals


They change a lot of DMV laws here in our state in the past year. According to the law, Substitute House Bill 343,.
The new rules also prohibit drivers under 17 from driving between midnight and 6 a.m. unless they are with a parent or guardian; teens between 17 and 18 must also stay off the road between 1 and 5 a.m.
After One ticket they lose that privilege and it goes only too and from school or work after two tickets they go back to learners permit after the third it goes till they are 21 exceptions can be made for emergencies, and teens who work late can also be exempted, provided they have written proof that they were working.

If we can make new laws to protect our family, just in this state. Then the country can make one to protect its entire people. It’s all about the history of things, common since and cares about yourself and the people, and keeping America,
America

Aiding and abetting illegal aliens is a crime and if giving driver's licenses to illegals isn't aiding and abetting I don't know what would be.Any government official that promotes such an idea should be charged with malfeasance and lack of common sense.

Coming from one of those 8 brilliant states listed above [yes, loads of due sarcasm here]...

I'm here to confirm what GREG says above - in that once a person gets the DL (I wonder.... do they offer they test in Spanish, Russian, Vietnamese...?) and provide proof of insurance - either to get the initial license and also to register a vehicle... they can simply quit paying on the insurance premiums or cancel the policy a month or two later. I know this per conversations with my own auto insurance agent who says this is not uncommon.

Of course, all the above sidesteps the two even larger and more obvious aspects of this:

a). Just licensing (and insuring) such a driver doesn't necessarily guarantee they'll be any reduction in irresponsible driving. Proponents like to carry this argument around and submit it as 'proof' of the righteousness of their policies - it is unproven for the most part.

b). The people at the NILW center should emphasize that the list of 8 states licensing illegals is a small minority, and that list is actually shrinking over time (TN recently backed away from the practice).
So, what is pragmatic about being on the wrong side of the argument?

c). If our DMV is administering the driving test in Spanish, they are, by virtue of sheer circumstance, 'aiding and abetting' - and should cease that immediately.

d). Yes, Betsy, once again people must be reminded that illegal immigration is NOT a victimless crime. Repeat early, and often.

[/end rant]

Comment posted in comment section at the above article's website:

Some states and localities have enacted rigid anti-immigrant legislation..."

Another USA Today butcher job on truth and reality, conveniently leaving out the word ILLEGAL before the word IMMIGRANT. No state, no citizen, no one in America is driving out immigrants. Since the USA Today has no clue, or if it does have a clue, is intentionally trying the obfuscate facts, let me remind you what an "immigrant" is:

An immigrant is involved with an established and orderly procedure of immigration (entering a country to which one is not native in order to settle there by legal process). Therefore an immigrant follows the LAW.

What we are talking about here is ILLEGAL immigrants. Since the USA Today is intentionally trying to put out half-truths and no-truths, let me set the record straight:

ILLEGAL:
Unlawful; illegitimate; illicit; unlicensed.
Illegal, unlawful, illegitimate, illicit, criminal can all describe actions not in accord with law.
Illegal refers most specifically to violations of statutes.
Illegal is "prohibited by law."

Is there any part of the word "illegal" that the anarchists, open borders lobbyists, illegal alien huggers, undocumented illegal aliens and THE USA TODAY doesn't understand?