Thread: Programmers Guild rebuts Gates' call for more H-1b visas

It is truly a shame that the House would not hear any opposing testimony today.

The Programmer's Guild web site posted their rebuttal, though.

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http://www.programmersguild.org/docs/re ... h2008.html

March 13, 2008
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

(subject to revision this evening after Gates speaks)
Programmers Guild rebuts Bill Gates call for more H-1b visas

The Microsoft Press Release below outlines what Gates will say today. Here is our rebuttal:

SACRAMENTO - March 13, 2008 - The Programmers Guild disputes that more H-1b visas would benefit "U.S. global competitiveness," and they would represent undue competition for Americans seeking jobs in this recessionary job market.

1) One way to allow more highly-skilled workers to remain in the U.S. is to grant H-1b visas on the basis of skill rather than by a lottery. But just as last year the Programmers Guild expects USCIS to conduct a lottery, granting H-1b to $16/hour hotel clerks while denying visas to PhD genetic researchers. The best proxy for skill is wage. This simple reform in H-1b would allow Microsoft to have as many highly skilled H-1b as then need under the current cap AS LONG AS THEY PAID THEM WHAT THEY ARE WORTH.

2) Our competitive advantage is eroding, and Bill Gates has used the H-1b program to facilitate that erosion. Microsoft used the H-1B visa to train a critical mass of foreign workers within the U.S., then used these workers to establish overseas operations, with U.S. technology in their back pockets. East Side Journal explained on October 10, 2002:

The road to Microsoft's future travels through the ancient lands of India. That future is a $10 billion initiative called Microsoft .NET ... Key pieces of the new system have and will come from India

Microsoft's offices at [Hyderabad's] Hi-Tec City not only recreate the look but also the feel of Microsoft's headquarters. In an e-mail from Hyderabad, Srini Koppolu, the IDC's general manager, said each programmer is free to take an idea to top managers at any time -- an open-door policy not common at Indian companies.

``The replication of Microsoft's culture has been possible because many people who worked in Redmond for many years have moved back to be part of the India Development Center,'' Koppolu wrote.

Between October 1999 and February 2000, [Microsoft] obtained 362 H-1B visas from the Immigration and Naturalization Service, making it the U.S.'s sixth-largest importer of Indian employees for that period.

Even in 2002 when the H-1b cap was 195,000 and not being reached, [Micosoft] plans call for doubling the number of today's programmers, whose neighbors at Hi-Tec City include some 12,000 employees of General Electric, Oracle and Vanenberg.

3) We agree with Gates that U.S. workforce development needs to be improved. Gates claims that Microsoft needs more H-1b to hire new foreign graduates. But there are many U.S. graduates with several years of experience trying to find work at Microsoft and other employers but Gates does not open these entry level positions to these Americans. Why? Experienced Americans are only considered for the positions that require an arbitrary 3 to 7 years of experience in several specific skills then the Americans are summarily rejected for not meeting all of those arbitrary qualifications.

Nearly all Microsoft jobs require 3-5 years experience in several technologies. In effect the richest man in the world is too cheap to hire and train his American workforce. He, and all other employers spoiled by H-1b, expect that some other employer would have borne to cost hiring someone without experience and borne the cost of that on-the-job training.

4) Gates complains that taxpayers are paying for the education of our foreign competition, and then sending them home. Many foreign students come to the USA with the intent of returning home, and there is no way to stop that. So the real question is why are American taxpayers being forced to subsidize the education of citizens from countries that represent our foreign competition?

5) H-1b does not need to be EXPANDED, it needs to be REFORMED:

Eight of the top 10 users of H-1b are foreign consulting firms. These Indian firms bring in thousands H-1b workers each, admit to paying them 25% below what they would have to pay Americans, thus displacing U.S. consulting firms and U.S. consultants. This is not helping Americas global competitiveness. H-1b needs to be reformed so that employers must pay at least a median wage to H-1b workers.

The H-1b program is dissuading the next generation of Americans from entering the tech profession. H-1b forces new graduates, with $50k student loans and no experience, to directly compete for American jobs against citizens from every country in the world. There is currently no requirement that employers give preference to American applicants. The Programmers Guild thinks that there should be.

- Kim Berry

President - www.programmersguild.org

How you game the system to bring in foreign labor

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

Incredible, isn't it. How can this be tolerated and not investigated. It's blatant!

Misc. notes from the House Committee meeting this morning:

http://science.edgeboss.net/real-live/s ... 060607.smi

Ms. Biggert - "I agree with just about everything you've said".

Re: Free Trade Agreements -
Gates - "I think they're a good thing for this country."

R&D Tax Credit - Some problems are so big, that the private sector alone will not be able to solve certain problems.

Mr. Gordon (D-TN) - Chair,

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Rothman - (D-NJ) 'You're a role model for anybody who's done reasonably well'.
H1-b visa debate is part of the whole immigration debate.

Should there be any limits issued. Should there be any limits at all?

Gates - The key focus that MS has here, is on, highly skilled people.
Starting salaries over 100K/yr, the policy that Canada has is that if a company is willing to hire such a person, the government will facilitate admission for that person.

[My note - most people brought in on H1b, do not even have a Master's degree, much less a PhD. Most are simple undergraduates.]

Should there be any limits on H1b? (nonspeak, then didn't answer the question)
Should there be an IQ test? (")

[My Note - Reminder Sona Shah! - also from NJ]

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Reichert (R-WA) -

Re: Global economy/global markets - corp. tax rate; what effect does it have?

Gates - it's important to look at how our tax policy is influencing corp. behavior.
In case of MS, to the degree we can hire engrs here, we prefer to do our R&D here, - despite the fact the attractive tax structure in other places,
It does make a difference. You won't immediately go to another place.
The US still has a lot of things still in it's favor.

Reichert - You said, private sector no longer investing in research.

Gates - Some of the research came out of the 'semi-private' sector, ATT & Bell labs - example, as company became 'truer' single private company, research became more functional 'productizing', etc.

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Carnahan - (MO) - Thank you, blah.
Look ahead to next 50 years -

Gates - 'In 50 years, the US may not have the same relative share of innovations'

...etc.

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Gingrey - (GA-R) - I have concerns about (the entire comm does) the lack of STEM education in our country, ...

H1b visas - Do you believe an increase in H1b program could have the unintended consequence in deterring US students from pursuing STEM fields?

(And J1 for college students, etc)

Gates - All we're turning away is where the kids will be - they still will be working against these same students, just in a different country. They'll still be in the field, just working in another country.
:

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[X] - I've got a bill for sig. investment of infrastructure, and tech training.

Chandler (D-KY)?

Gates - innovation with other schools - math, science, etc.

[My comment - math is a bad example. Most CS people have much math background but very few of them actually use such skill in most jobs. I have 2 non CS degrees and used and mastered more math than nearly any of the CS degreed people I've ever worked with. ].

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McCaul - [R-TX] - Focus on 2 areas -

"Michael Dell is in my district, ...."

Univ training - post graduation, they go back to own country, etc.

I am a sponsor of a bill raising cap on H1b's.

Obviously, we'd like to have more home grown talent.
In terms of prioritizing our funds, where do we need to focus?


Gates - I appreciate your support on H1b. This is making a big difference.

A cycle exists - Govt' funds univ, univ. hires people, etc.
(Hispanic pandering to recruit in CS.)

Where biggest impact? NSF budget.

Research is big factor.

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Gordon - We have to have a technological 'bump'.

Thank you, meeting adjourned.

Thanks Kim