Thread: employer sanctions

I am new to this organization and have been considering sending them some of my hard earned money. However when I look at the discussion board all I see is talk about border enforcement and deportations and preventing illegals from getting various small benefits that they are not entitled to (e.g. wellfair or instate tuition). There is nothing wrong with this sort of approach except that it is really not going to solve the problem all by by itself. It is sort of like wacking ants that are invading your kitchen but meanwhile leaving the place filthy with crumbs and the sugar bowl open in plain sight. The simple fact is that Illegals come here to make money and if they can't get jobs and they are loosing money then they will leave the same way they arrived. Hence a key approach for effective results has got to be to prevent businesses from hiring Illegals. There has got to be a very harsh penalty that makes the risk of hiring somebody who will work cheap greater then the reward. So my question is: "why is there no legislation and no activism aimed at employers?" Is the farm lobby really that strong? Are the hotel service and construction lobbies really that strong? Have they taken over the republican party? Republicans and conservatives like and admire a profitable business and they are usually good for everyone. However hiring Illegals to boost profits is beyond the pail. It is almost like using slave labor. People who do this have got to be punished! Does this organization work to promote employer sanctions of this sort?

You're overestimating the extent to which employers knowingly hire illegals. In fact, most farm labor employers follow the same laws all other employers do when they hire people.

If you want to stop employers from unknowingly hiring illegals, then you need to pass legislation that mandates a positive way of determining status at the time of hiring.

I agree with going after the employers, however the welfare benefits also have to stop. I presently live here in AZ and the system is dead broke due to illegals taking advantage of the welfare system. AZ has stopped taking new applications for medicaid and child care assistance. That is in addition to the fact that AZ had to take organ recipients who were on the waiting list off medicaid and now they are talking about shutting down AZ medicaid all together. Sales tax was raised to close to 10% to compensate for how broke AZ is. I knew an illegal alien a few years back who lived here and she literally made her living by having a baby every 5 years. I went to a school in Phoenix that was mostly foreign born Hispanics and they would repeatedly fail their tests on purpose to keep their benefits going, even the instructors were keen to this.

Many of the illegals do come here for the jobs, but they also come to game the system and supplement their income. Heck, some women even come here to live solely on welfare. If all benefits were cut off, that would mean the employers would have to make up the difference so that these illegals could afford to live. In turn, the illegals would demand more money and there would be no point in hiring them.

You see, as it is right now these crooked employers can pay these pathetic wages because the tax payer makes up the difference.

They may come for the jobs, but they stay for the benefits! I'm all for long prison sentences for those who hire illegal invaders. In addition to long prison sentences, I would recommend permanent revocation of business licenses as well. Those who hire illegal invaders do not deserve to be in business in this country.

Just because we are against illegal invaders, doesn't mean we are not also against those who hire them.

Glad to hear your attitude. We agree completely as to the basic steps that should be taken. However it is also a question of priorities and sequence of steps. A question about how much emphasis one is going to place on doing something about the employers vs the illegals. I say the first priority to stop the hiring. Second priority is to make life miserable for those who are here illegally. The first step stops the attraction and stops the hole getting deeper. The second provides a added push for those already here to get the hell out.

Another reason that employer sanctions are so important is because they are cheap an easy to enforce (there are a lot fewer employers than there are employees). Enforcement on employers also requires fewer jail cells, fewer lawyers, fewer cops. It requires no fences and no patrols on the border. Finally employers have more to loose if they get caught. They loose their businesses, their status and their reputations. Illegals have little to loose and they can always keep trying. Employers can thus be more easily induced to behave themselves.

The order of priority between push and pull is thus a question of practicality. Putting harsh sanctions on the exploiters of illegal labor is also the right thing to do and it is the thing that fits best with fundamental republican principals; the spirit of Abe Lincoln, Fredric Douglas and Teddy Roosevelt.

Realistically, it would require thousands of trained and hired employees as task forces to weed out businesses who practice the hiring of illegals. The manpower it would take to bust all the businesses would be enormous! The staggering number of businesses who need to be caught and brought down would give thousands of Americans much needed jobs to do ! Sounds like a winning idea to me! Will it happen? Not with Obama as president! Hopefully the next president and congress will be on OUR side!

[quote="Capitalista_III"]

I am all for providing a positive cheap way to identify who is legal and who not. However I don't for one minute believe that these employers don't know what is going on. They know pretty well what is what and they know they are breaking the law and to cover their backsides they make some minimal efforts to verify status. But what they really want is cheap labor and they easily get "fooled" (poor dumb bunnies wink wink nudge nudge).

Originally Posted by FreeRideIsOver

Realistically, it would require thousands of trained and hired employees as task forces to weed out businesses who practice the hiring of illegals. The manpower it would take to bust all the businesses would be enormous! The staggering number of businesses who need to be caught and brought down would give thousands of Americans much needed jobs to do ! Sounds like a winning idea to me! Will it happen? Not with Obama as president! Hopefully the next president and congress will be on OUR side!

It would not be difficult. Pass E-Verify legislation. Audit every employer at least once every three years. A single auditor could do any size company.
The employer would pay for the cost of the audit.

Quality audits are very intrusive and hundreds of thousands are performed annually. A single auditor can turn a company inside out, in three days. The company pays for this. I've audited companies and my company has also been audited.

For E-verify the auditor merely needs to check the number of employees and run their socials thru the E-Verify data base. AZ is already doing this.

IMO, the employer pay for the audit. The govt should invoice the employer.

The Obama admin. has significantly increased the number of workplace audits. Deportations for the last two years exceed 800,000. This is more than Bush or Clinton ever dreamed about deporting.

Originally Posted by hacimo

Does this organization work to promote employer sanctions of this sort?

"We know jobs and benny's is why they come and keep coming, yes to your answer!" And most excellent first post thank you! Welcome to Alipac!

Originally Posted by FreeRideIsOver

Realistically, it would require thousands of trained and hired employees as task forces to weed out businesses who practice the hiring of illegals. The manpower it would take to bust all the businesses would be enormous! The staggering number of businesses who need to be caught and brought down would give thousands of Americans much needed jobs to do ! Sounds like a winning idea to me! Will it happen? Not with Obama as president! Hopefully the next president and congress will be on OUR side! [/color]

I don't know where you get your estimates about how many people it would take. However it has got to be a lot fewer that the number it takes to patrol the border and the other entry points, The main problem with a simpleminded deportation strategy is that the Illegals can simply turn around and sneak back across. As I posted elsewhere employers are more easily controlled by legal penalties. They have a lot at stake (money reputation etc). They want to exploit cheap labor and they are greedy as hell but if the risk is too high then they will behave themselves. It is just like enforcing the tax code. There is a temptation to cheat but there is also a risk of getting caught so most smart business people do the right thing.

Finally let me point out that it is really really easy to catch employers who cheat. All the feds have to do is offer a cash reward to any employee (legal or not) who is willing to testify about their boss and what is going on at the work site. This means the exploiting bosses would be subject to blackmail by the very people they are trying to exploit! They would be scared witless of the very workers they are trying to screw. It is poetic irony.