Thread: Trump Executive Order Draft Could Curtail LGBT Rights

I have my religious right to not believe in abortion or gay marriages. Many of us refuse to judge a person for their beliefs and say it is between them and God. But when the government uses our taxes to pay for abortion or forces us to participate in any way with gay marriages then we feel our rights and decision making is being violated and we are being forced into being accessories in breaking God's law.

It is that Trump seemed to see and understand that the government was over reaching into the personal values and beliefs of American citizens. Instead of creating a country that everyone could live together with mutual respect and peace we have been pitted against each other. Communication and open dialogue of different ideas and views has been lost. Now it is all about activism and protest. Violence, protest and who has the most money is now the norm to force ones ideas on each other. Trump did not start this but now he is having to deal with a country that for to long have been bowing down and giving in to these groups.

I agree that nobody should be required to approve or demonstrate approval of anyone else's sexual practices. This includes marriage ceremonies or any other formal observation of sexual unions that they do not approve of whether they involve homosexuality or not.

The marriage cake issue is not as frivolous as it sounds. Bakers who create wedding cakes are artists creating artistic works. Artists should not be compelled by law to create works that they do not wish to create. Bakers should not be compelled to create homosexual wedding cakes or do business with homosexuals or anyone else if they do not want to. Forcing an artist to create works that they object to is a serious violation of that artist's freedom of speech. We understand that the freedom of speech allows for expressions in public that might be offensive to others. But the freedom of speech also protects individuals from being forced to express things that they might object to. A baker should not be forced to create a wedding cake themed for a homosexual wedding any more than a painter should be compelled to portray homosexuality for any reason.

Tax funding for abortion is not really what is at stake in the Trump presidency. Very clearly what a good part of Trump's constituency wants is to criminalize abortion completely under the argument that the contents of a woman's uterus qualifies as a person and is, as a matter of legal protection, just like anyone walking around minding their own business. This is trouble brewing and isn't going to work. If Trump stacks the Supreme Court to pave the way for criminalizing abortion, including "late term" abortions, we are looking at some real misery in the future ahead.

But regarding tax funding for abortion, we need to remember that abortion is occasionally a medical procedure and as much as taxes pay for medical procedures, this should also include abortion and other forms of birth control. Recall again that The Pill works by aborting a fertilized egg at various stages of development.

And what about transgender surgery? Those who oppose abortion are remarkably silent on this blatant medical atrocity. Children are being indoctrinated into identifying as a "transgender" individual despite the fact that there are many psychologists and doctors who correctly explain that there is no such thing. But at the same time we have doctors castrating young boys who have reached the age of availability for this procedure and carving their bodies up into some weird parody of female genitalia. Where is the moral outrage? Where is the detailed and graphic propaganda exposing this practice? Should tax dollars go to funding this procedure? Already we have seen the military paying for this. You can get transgender surgery, but not an abortion in the military?

Anyone who opposes and wishes to criminalize any abortion and yet ignores this has a lot of explaining to do.

In California Medi-Cal (our name for Medicaid) program covers abortion regardless of the gestational age of the fetes. Medical justification or authorization are not required.

In California minors can have an abortion through Medi-Cal without parental consent or notification

In California illegal immigrants can have abortion through Medi-Cal.

Medi-Cal is completely funded with taxpayer money.

Pkskyali wrote:

The marriage cake issue is not as frivolous as it sounds. Bakers who create wedding cakes are artists creating artistic works. Artists should not be compelled by law to create works that they do not wish to create. Bakers should not be compelled to create homosexual wedding cakes or do business with homosexuals or anyone else if they do not want to. Forcing an artist to create works that they object to is a serious violation of that artist's freedom of speech. We understand that the freedom of speech allows for expressions in public that might be offensive to others. But the freedom of speech also protects individuals from being forced to express things that they might object to. A baker should not be forced to create a wedding cake themed for a homosexual wedding any more than a painter should be compelled to portray homosexuality for any reason.

Well gosh, I've never thought of it that way, pkskyali!! No artist should have to perform for or provide any service to someone they don't like or agree with. Their hearts wouldn't be in it and their works would turn out ugly and mired in dislike, disgust and perhaps even hateful. Who would want such a thing let alone pay for something like that for any event, let alone one as important and sentimental as a wedding?

FREE THE BAKER ARTISTS!! Let them choose for whom they serve. They will need a questionnaire, though, because otherwise, how would they know who they like and don't like without some very detailed information?

I'm obviously very inexperienced in all this cake business. When my husband and I got married, we never met the baker, to this day I don't even know who made this lovely 7 layer tiered wedding cake. My Mom ordered it and all I had to do was tell her what color of icing we wanted, and she took it from there. It was beautiful, too. And I would say a work of art indeed. It didn't even have our names on it because of the style there's no place for it. It did have the little bride and groom thing on top, but shoot we could have added that ourselves if we were gay and then the baker would have never even known.

And the florists, they're artists, too.

You know the irony of this is that gay people are very artistic and would probably be the bakers and florists most art appreciative customers. That's why they go pick out their wedding cakes in shops in person and attend to details of this sort, where people like me and my Mom who ordered ours for us, just call and order a cake big enough to feed everyone and if you want a color tell them on the phone.

Thank you pkskyali. This gives me a whole new appreciation of the cakes versus artists issue. No one would want a cake at their wedding made by someone who thought they were evil, unwashed, ungodly or whatever the case might be. It's disappointing though to learn that there are Christian Artists out there who don't have enough love in their hearts to make a beautiful cake for anyone willing to pay for it.