Thread: Bean bags vs. AK-47s, Napolitiano should resign.

Bean bags vs. AK-47s
Tom Tancredo

Posted: December 18, 2010
1:00 am Eastern

© 2010

Another Border Patrol agent on the Arizona border was shot and killed by Mexican drug smugglers last Tuesday. Of the eight attackers, four are in custody and a fifth is under surveillance by Border Patrol Blackhawk helicopters as he tries to make his way back to the Mexican border.

BP Agent Brian Terry was part of a BORTAC team (for border tactical unit) tracking armed drug smugglers 15 miles northwest of Nogales, Ariz., (and only three miles west of Interstate 19) when they were attacked with automatic weapons fire. The area is well-known as a major drug-smuggling corridor, and the smugglers are known to frequently be armed with AK-47s and other long rifles.

Here's the part Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Border Patrol management are trying to hide: Border Patrol Agent Terry and the BORTAC team were under standing orders to always use ("non-lethal") bean-bag rounds first before using live ammunition. When the smugglers heard the first rounds, they returned fire with real bullets, and Agent Terry was killed in that exchange. Real bullets outperform bean bags every time.

The larger, ugly truth Napolitano and senior managers in the Border Patrol want to hide is that the rules of engagement and inadequate weaponry of the Border Patrol place the lives of all agents at grave risk. The National Border Patrol Council, which represents over 15,000 field agents, believes the border is too dangerous for officers to patrol without body armor, armored vehicles and automatic weapons.

Another aspect of this story that is not being reported is that the site of the shooting, Peck Canyon, is inside the area Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz., has proposed to designate as the Tumacacori Highlands Wilderness reserve. If Grijalva's bill is enacted into law, what is now a well-established drug smuggling corridor will become a drug-smuggling superhighway, because the Border Patrol will be prohibited from patrolling the region. Rep. Rob Bishop of Utah has proposed legislation that will remove the restrictions on Border Patrol jurisdiction on such public lands within 50 miles of the border.

On Thursday, Secretary Napolitano and several aides flew to Tucson to meet with local Border Patrol brass. The Obama administration obviously has a mess on its hands, and Napolitano does not want it to blow up before today's U.S. Senate vote on the Dream Act. They know another murder on the southwest border will not help garner needed votes for the Dream Act, because senators supporting that bill must be able to say with a straight face, "The border is as secure as it has ever been."

The BORTAC team encountered not one or two smugglers but a team of eight. Four are in custody, one is under surveillance in the rugged terrain of the Pajarita Wilderness area east of the small ranch town of Ruby, and three others are missing. The captured smugglers had AK-47s and backpacks filled with ammunition, food and radios. There are rumors that three of the captured four are members of the Mexican military, but that is unconfirmed. Yet, it would not be the first time Mexican police and military have been apprehended smuggling drugs into the United States.

It is not widely reported by our news media that the smugglers maintain a dozen or more permanent lookout posts on desert hilltops inside the U.S., and that those lookout posts are manned in week-long shifts by individuals who commute not from Mexico but from Phoenix, Tucson and other Arizona cities.

The allegation that the Sinaloa drug cartel obtained those AK-47s from gun shops in the United States is nonsensical. That's a fairy tale cooked up by the Obama administration and endorsed by the Mexican government because they do not want to admit that the cartels get most of their serious weaponry from the international black market and the Mexican military itself.

The rules requiring first use of bean-bag ammunition is but one example of the suicidal rules of engagement that govern Border Patrol operations. The reason they have such insane rules? The politicians who run the agency do not want the public to think the border is so dangerous a place that Border Patrol agents fear for their lives. In other words, the rules of engagement are based on a lie, a lie that must be maintained for political purposes.

Secretary Napolitano should do two things on Monday morning. First, she should order all Border Patrol agents to be issued weapons adequate for both self-defense and apprehension of armed drug smugglers. The second thing she should do Monday morning is resign.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=240945

Resign?

Naw
Hauled up on charges of treason , sedition , aiding and abetting illegal aliens
and host of other charges

Originally Posted by Newmexican

Bean bags vs. AK-47s
Tom Tancredo

Posted: December 18, 2010
1:00 am Eastern

© 2010

Another Border Patrol agent on the Arizona border was shot and killed by Mexican drug smugglers last Tuesday. Of the eight attackers, four are in custody and a fifth is under surveillance by Border Patrol Blackhawk helicopters as he tries to make his way back to the Mexican border.

BP Agent Brian Terry was part of a BORTAC team (for border tactical unit) tracking armed drug smugglers 15 miles northwest of Nogales, Ariz., (and only three miles west of Interstate 19) when they were attacked with automatic weapons fire. The area is well-known as a major drug-smuggling corridor, and the smugglers are known to frequently be armed with AK-47s and other long rifles.

Here's the part Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Border Patrol management are trying to hide: Border Patrol Agent Terry and the BORTAC team were under standing orders to always use ("non-lethal") bean-bag rounds first before using live ammunition. When the smugglers heard the first rounds, they returned fire with real bullets, and Agent Terry was killed in that exchange. Real bullets outperform bean bags every time.

The larger, ugly truth Napolitano and senior managers in the Border Patrol want to hide is that the rules of engagement and inadequate weaponry of the Border Patrol place the lives of all agents at grave risk. The National Border Patrol Council, which represents over 15,000 field agents, believes the border is too dangerous for officers to patrol without body armor, armored vehicles and automatic weapons.

Another aspect of this story that is not being reported is that the site of the shooting, Peck Canyon, is inside the area Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz., has proposed to designate as the Tumacacori Highlands Wilderness reserve. If Grijalva's bill is enacted into law, what is now a well-established drug smuggling corridor will become a drug-smuggling superhighway, because the Border Patrol will be prohibited from patrolling the region. Rep. Rob Bishop of Utah has proposed legislation that will remove the restrictions on Border Patrol jurisdiction on such public lands within 50 miles of the border.

On Thursday, Secretary Napolitano and several aides flew to Tucson to meet with local Border Patrol brass. The Obama administration obviously has a mess on its hands, and Napolitano does not want it to blow up before today's U.S. Senate vote on the Dream Act. They know another murder on the southwest border will not help garner needed votes for the Dream Act, because senators supporting that bill must be able to say with a straight face, "The border is as secure as it has ever been."

The BORTAC team encountered not one or two smugglers but a team of eight. Four are in custody, one is under surveillance in the rugged terrain of the Pajarita Wilderness area east of the small ranch town of Ruby, and three others are missing. The captured smugglers had AK-47s and backpacks filled with ammunition, food and radios. There are rumors that three of the captured four are members of the Mexican military, but that is unconfirmed. Yet, it would not be the first time Mexican police and military have been apprehended smuggling drugs into the United States.

It is not widely reported by our news media that the smugglers maintain a dozen or more permanent lookout posts on desert hilltops inside the U.S., and that those lookout posts are manned in week-long shifts by individuals who commute not from Mexico but from Phoenix, Tucson and other Arizona cities.

The allegation that the Sinaloa drug cartel obtained those AK-47s from gun shops in the United States is nonsensical. That's a fairy tale cooked up by the Obama administration and endorsed by the Mexican government because they do not want to admit that the cartels get most of their serious weaponry from the international black market and the Mexican military itself.

The rules requiring first use of bean-bag ammunition is but one example of the suicidal rules of engagement that govern Border Patrol operations. The reason they have such insane rules? The politicians who run the agency do not want the public to think the border is so dangerous a place that Border Patrol agents fear for their lives. In other words, the rules of engagement are based on a lie, a lie that must be maintained for political purposes.

Secretary Napolitano should do two things on Monday morning. First, she should order all Border Patrol agents to be issued weapons adequate for both self-defense and apprehension of armed drug smugglers. The second thing she should do Monday morning is resign.

OBAMA HAS GOT TO BE THE DUMBEST PRESIDENT EVER WHY IS IT THAT THIS SO CALLED MAN IS ALWAYS AGREEING WITH THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT OVER HIS OWN COUNTRY AND WHY IS IT THAT HE FEELS THAT HE HAS TO KISS THEIR @ZZ, AND TURN A BLIND EYE TO WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY CONCERNING ILLEGAL ALIENS HE SHOULD BE IMPEACHED, AND JANET N. NEEDS TO BE FORCED TO RESIGN. THEY ARE BOTH DOING A LOT OF HARM TO THIS COUNTRY AND ITS CITIZENS. BUT, THEY MAKE SURE THE MEXICANS ARE MADE TO FEEL WELCOME HERE. I DID SEND HIM AN EMAIL JUST TO LET HIM KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT THE WAY HE IS NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM. HE IS ACTUALLY PART OF THE PROBLEM ITS NOT HIS PLACE TO GIVE THESE PEOPLE AMNESTY, ITS UP TO CONGRESS AND THE AMERICAN CITIZENS. I HOPE THE NEW YEAR WILL SEE HIM BEING IMPEACHED BECAUSE, HE IS NOT FIT TO BE PRESIDENT OF ANY COUNTRY EXCEPT MEXICO. PLEASE REPUBLICANS MAKE HIS IMPEACHMENT YOUR FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS. AND HE HAS STILL SAID NOTHING CONCERNING THE DEATH OF BRIAN TERRY. HE KNOWS THAT THIS MAN'S BLOOD IS ON HIS CORRUPT HANDS.

This must not continue.
The sham is up. One more needless death.
Mexico is a threat. Time to treat the border with aggressive defenses.
No good comes over our boundary with good intention.
Never has.

Bottom line

Your safer in Baghdad then in any mexican border town

for that matter in any mexican town

Our govt better wake up to the fact that mexico is not a friend of the US

Its time to cut all ties with that idiot country and expel all their illegal
nationals in this country

"You go LadyStClaire, I was always taught you give the same respect you get
and this guy only respects those who have more then him!"
Obama being impeached would a Dream act of justice!

Originally Posted by LadyStClaire

Originally Posted by Newmexican

Bean bags vs. AK-47s
Tom Tancredo

Posted: December 18, 2010
1:00 am Eastern

© 2010

Another Border Patrol agent on the Arizona border was shot and killed by Mexican drug smugglers last Tuesday. Of the eight attackers, four are in custody and a fifth is under surveillance by Border Patrol Blackhawk helicopters as he tries to make his way back to the Mexican border.

BP Agent Brian Terry was part of a BORTAC team (for border tactical unit) tracking armed drug smugglers 15 miles northwest of Nogales, Ariz., (and only three miles west of Interstate 19) when they were attacked with automatic weapons fire. The area is well-known as a major drug-smuggling corridor, and the smugglers are known to frequently be armed with AK-47s and other long rifles.

Here's the part Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Border Patrol management are trying to hide: Border Patrol Agent Terry and the BORTAC team were under standing orders to always use ("non-lethal") bean-bag rounds first before using live ammunition. When the smugglers heard the first rounds, they returned fire with real bullets, and Agent Terry was killed in that exchange. Real bullets outperform bean bags every time.

The larger, ugly truth Napolitano and senior managers in the Border Patrol want to hide is that the rules of engagement and inadequate weaponry of the Border Patrol place the lives of all agents at grave risk. The National Border Patrol Council, which represents over 15,000 field agents, believes the border is too dangerous for officers to patrol without body armor, armored vehicles and automatic weapons.

Another aspect of this story that is not being reported is that the site of the shooting, Peck Canyon, is inside the area Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz., has proposed to designate as the Tumacacori Highlands Wilderness reserve. If Grijalva's bill is enacted into law, what is now a well-established drug smuggling corridor will become a drug-smuggling superhighway, because the Border Patrol will be prohibited from patrolling the region. Rep. Rob Bishop of Utah has proposed legislation that will remove the restrictions on Border Patrol jurisdiction on such public lands within 50 miles of the border.

On Thursday, Secretary Napolitano and several aides flew to Tucson to meet with local Border Patrol brass. The Obama administration obviously has a mess on its hands, and Napolitano does not want it to blow up before today's U.S. Senate vote on the Dream Act. They know another murder on the southwest border will not help garner needed votes for the Dream Act, because senators supporting that bill must be able to say with a straight face, "The border is as secure as it has ever been."

The BORTAC team encountered not one or two smugglers but a team of eight. Four are in custody, one is under surveillance in the rugged terrain of the Pajarita Wilderness area east of the small ranch town of Ruby, and three others are missing. The captured smugglers had AK-47s and backpacks filled with ammunition, food and radios. There are rumors that three of the captured four are members of the Mexican military, but that is unconfirmed. Yet, it would not be the first time Mexican police and military have been apprehended smuggling drugs into the United States.

It is not widely reported by our news media that the smugglers maintain a dozen or more permanent lookout posts on desert hilltops inside the U.S., and that those lookout posts are manned in week-long shifts by individuals who commute not from Mexico but from Phoenix, Tucson and other Arizona cities.

The allegation that the Sinaloa drug cartel obtained those AK-47s from gun shops in the United States is nonsensical. That's a fairy tale cooked up by the Obama administration and endorsed by the Mexican government because they do not want to admit that the cartels get most of their serious weaponry from the international black market and the Mexican military itself.

The rules requiring first use of bean-bag ammunition is but one example of the suicidal rules of engagement that govern Border Patrol operations. The reason they have such insane rules? The politicians who run the agency do not want the public to think the border is so dangerous a place that Border Patrol agents fear for their lives. In other words, the rules of engagement are based on a lie, a lie that must be maintained for political purposes.

Secretary Napolitano should do two things on Monday morning. First, she should order all Border Patrol agents to be issued weapons adequate for both self-defense and apprehension of armed drug smugglers. The second thing she should do Monday morning is resign.

OBAMA HAS GOT TO BE THE DUMBEST PRESIDENT EVER WHY IS IT THAT THIS SO CALLED MAN IS ALWAYS AGREEING WITH THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT OVER HIS OWN COUNTRY AND WHY IS IT THAT HE FEELS THAT HE HAS TO KISS THEIR @ZZ, AND TURN A BLIND EYE TO WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY CONCERNING ILLEGAL ALIENS HE SHOULD BE IMPEACHED, AND JANET N. NEEDS TO BE FORCED TO RESIGN. THEY ARE BOTH DOING A LOT OF HARM TO THIS COUNTRY AND ITS CITIZENS. BUT, THEY MAKE SURE THE MEXICANS ARE MADE TO FEEL WELCOME HERE. I DID SEND HIM AN EMAIL JUST TO LET HIM KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT THE WAY HE IS NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM. HE IS ACTUALLY PART OF THE PROBLEM ITS NOT HIS PLACE TO GIVE THESE PEOPLE AMNESTY, ITS UP TO CONGRESS AND THE AMERICAN CITIZENS. I HOPE THE NEW YEAR WILL SEE HIM BEING IMPEACHED BECAUSE, HE IS NOT FIT TO BE PRESIDENT OF ANY COUNTRY EXCEPT MEXICO. PLEASE REPUBLICANS MAKE HIS IMPEACHMENT YOUR FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS. AND HE HAS STILL SAID NOTHING CONCERNING THE DEATH OF BRIAN TERRY. HE KNOWS THAT THIS MAN'S BLOOD IS ON HIS CORRUPT HANDS.

you go lady St Claire
you are 100% right they all should Be Impeached .
sure the drug come over to our country . that ok well not in My book I have grand kids SB. & the American all Have kids & grand kids .
close the border up On all side. Napolitano why don't you & the rest Of the WH get the Hell out . we all want some one that care about the USA . & you sure in hell don't & OBama Is by your side also we want our country back

KGUN9 investigates Border Patrol agent's defense against border bandits

Posted: Dec 27, 2010 9:31 PM PST
Updated: Dec 27, 2010 9:31 PM PST
Reporter: Ileana Diaz

TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - Former Colorado Congressman and vocal anti-illegal immigration crusader Tom Tancredo claims border patrol agents told him Agent Brian Terry was ordered to use non lethal weapons first and responded to the border bandits with bean bags. We looked into this.

In an article written for the conservative World Net Daily, the politician turned radio host writes:

"Border Patrol agent Terry and the Bortac team were under standing orders to always use "non-lethal" bean-bag rounds first before using live ammunition. When the smugglers heard the first rounds, they returned fire with real bullets, and agent terry was killed in that exchange."

Tancredo told KGUN9 he heard this directly from border patrol agents.

"Who have both been subject to this order or they put is as a rule of engagement actually and other people who have seen the order itself," said Tancredo.

He claims the order requires bean bags and rubber bullets be used before real bullets, but is this true? The Border Patrol wouldn't say. They did admit agents at times carry bean bag guns and it is possible Agent Terry carried one the night he died but agents do not know for sure. One thing they did say, however, is that even if the agent was carrying a non-lethal weapon he would still be carrying his side arm, a pistol with very real bullets.

Still, Tancredo stands behind his story and its implications.

"That death may have been prevented. I underline may, who can say for sure, but it may have been prevented if he were allowed to defend himself with lethal force," said Tancredo.

"It's pretty simple. You face someone with an AK-47 and you're shooting a bean bag around. What would you call it," said Tancredo.

Tancredo calls its suicidal but in a combat situation, not everyone agrees. There have been a number of incidents lately where Border Patrol agents employed lethal force. Many of those incidents involve the agents being attacked by illegal immigrants with rocks.

Meanwhile, volunteers from the group No More Deaths say they witness agents walking around with lethal weaponry, ready to defend themselves when necessary.

"They seem to have weapons they need, especially the Bortac unit," said Gene Glefebvre. "And we hope that they would always try to deal with a situation in a non-violent way but sometimes we know they have no choice."

http://www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13747545

The other word thats being leaked out is that a gag order has been issued to the Border Agents regarding this case.... now why is that? Leaked rumor is also that an illegal was shot as was Terry and the illegal was medivaced out first who is now doing fine in the hospital. The delay in our Border agent getting medivaced in favor of an illegal cost Terry his life. That is supposedly what the gag order is to prevent getting out. Our border agent may still be alive if the rights of an illegal didn't come first.

Originally Posted by Syanis

The other word thats being leaked out is that a gag order has been issued to the Border Agents regarding this case.... now why is that? Leaked rumor is also that an illegal was shot as was Terry and the illegal was medivaced out first who is now doing fine in the hospital. The delay in our Border agent getting medivaced in favor of an illegal cost Terry his life. That is supposedly what the gag order is to prevent getting out. Our border agent may still be alive if the rights of an illegal didn't come first.

Syanis, if this is true.. arggggghhhh! I don't know how else to express what I feel about this. I hope that this gets exposed all over the nation.

I agree with you Just the facts. Resign?

Naw
Hauled up on charges of treason , sedition , aiding and abetting illegal aliens
and host of other charges.

And... shoved into a maximum security prison with their beloved illegal criminals for life!