Thread: Everybody forgot about Us?

well now we got that straight ...I am going to bed...good night

Originally Posted by Daedalus

In the United States, immigration restrictionists have ceded the playing field to the enemy. Only in America is "nativism" a dirty word. Only in America does this disgusting "cult of the immigrant" take precedence over the interests of American natives — people who have lived here for generations, for centuries. Compare the U.S. to France. The French are under no illusions that France is for the French and should stay that way, forever. The notion that France is a "nation of immigrants" doesn't cut ice. In contrast, American conservatives base the case for immigration restriction almost entirely on purely civic grounds, which doesn't carry the same force. In France, it is about the preservation of their culture, their nation, their patrie. Also, the mainstream political parties in France have to deal with the Le Pen factor. The GOP can take disgruntled conservatives for granted. In France, the Front National has forced the political mainstream to take a tougher line on immigration.

And so the solution is "what"? By your definition of "nationalist", only the American Indian has a right to that claim...so we could never (by definition) become "nationalists", since the majority of American citizens are immigrants or decendants of immigrants. As a nation of immigrants, how could we ever become "nationalists"?

However, we do have a heritage and a culture (however young it is) to preserve and protect, and that is what I am fighting for.

Originally Posted by CostaMesaMan

And so the solution is "what"?

The European approach, described above.

By your definition of "nationalist", only the American Indian has a right to that claim...

American Indians weren't granted U.S. citizenship until 1887, 1901, and 1924. The United States was created by settlers from Northwestern Europe - not Indians - who came here in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and established a Western nation in North America where one did not exist before. Throughout the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, the Indians were known as the "savages" who occasionally massacred American settlers along the frontier. That's how they are characterized in the Declaration of Independence. No nineteenth century American would have confused Indians - foreign tribes and signatories to international treaties with the U.S. government - with American natives. See Mark Twain. The American natives were the people who settled and built this country - the pilgrims, the pioneers.

so we could never (by definition) become "nationalists", since the majority of American citizens are immigrants or decendants of immigrants. As a nation of immigrants, how could we ever become "nationalists"?

This stupid cliché is a major part of the problem. It wasn't until the mid-twentieth century that Americans came to think of themselves as a "nation of immigrants." Prior to the 1940s, this phrase was never used in American history textbooks. The term "nation of immigrants" was popularized by JFK who wrote a book by that title for the ADL. Immigrants have certainly contributed much to this country, but it is important to keep in mind that immigrants only came later - after the hard work of building a nation from nothing had been accomplished, after the American Revolution had been won.

I'm sorry Daedalus, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on Europeons being the indigineous owners of America. Whether you like it or not, we ARE a nation of immigrants and I have no problem with that. While my mother's family immigrated here prior to the American Revolution, my father's immigrated from Scotland after 1830.

Even though they arrived two generations before them, they immigrated for some of the same reasons immigrants arrive today, but LEGALLY. If you try and preach that European culture is the only culture that is true to America then you only hurt our cause because it most certainly is not true. This is not the fight. Besides, before the Mexicans came - people used to fight between European cultures - Irish with Scot, Italians and the Slavs...etc etc. If you follow your history, these ethnic groups ended up being most heroic in two world wars..as many hispanic men & women fight for our country today. The difference of course is that the European immigrants didn't discard the law and hop a fence continuously to the tune of 20 MILLION people.

We have laws that control the flow of immigration and to keep track of who is here. Not only does uncontrolled immigration depreciate the wages in this country - but it's also a security risk in a volatile world that has extremist islam using terrorist tactics to commit mass death and destruction. There is a complete disconnect and frustration by the American people when our paid politicians and public officials REFUSE to follow the very laws in which they enact to protect us, because they were bought and paid for by some jerk who just wants to fatten his profits.

There are some Mexican-Americans involved. Here in Colorado we have Waldo Benividaz. He represenst You Dont Speak For Me and has worked to make changes for Mexican American Citizens.

Nobody I know is angerier than he is. He has put his name and reputaion on the line several times includeing running for office. He and other Mexican Americans fighting illegal immigration have my genuine respect.

The frustration of course relies on our politicians and paid officials...you can't blame the Mexican for wanting to come here. If I lived in Mexico, I'd want to come here too. It's our idiot representatives and beuracrats that have not only REFUSED to enforce the law - but in alot of respects, ENCOURAGED people to break it.

Take the DREAM ACT in the current bill as an example of this - talk about rolling out the red carpet! Come on over Mexicans! Tax-payer assisted college education awaits you! C'MON! SHEESH! What a load of crap!

I'm sorry Daedalus, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on Europeons being the indigineous owners of America.

America is a nation, not a geographic location. Indian tribes who fought against Americans in the American Revolution have no right to be described as "Native Americans." Rather, they were foreigners; sovereign peoples distinct from Americans, analagous to the Russians or the Chinese. That's how they were treated by the U.S. federal government for well over a century.

Whether you like it or not, we ARE a nation of immigrants and I have no problem with that. While my mother's family immigrated here prior to the American Revolution, my father's immigrated from Scotland after 1830.

No, that is simply a false multiculturalist cliché - one that wasn't generally accepted until a generation ago. The status of being an "immigrant" implies somewhere where the individual is "immigrating" to. Before there were immigrants, there were settlers - British colonists who established a new society where one did not exist before, and gave the new society - America - its core institutions and culture. Immigrants are the people who came later and adopted already established norms - the Irish, Italians, Germans, Poles and so forth.

Even though they arrived two generations before them, they immigrated for some of the same reasons immigrants arrive today, but LEGALLY.

This is a false analogy. During the nineteenth century, American naturalization law was based on ascriptive factors like ancestry and culture (like the current German system). That IS NOT the case today. Now, to be an "American" is nothing more than to possess an ever more worthless piece of paper, which Bush et al. are willing to sell for a few thousand bucks. It is purely legal and vacuous category. And that is precisely why the U.S. has the most insane immigration policy in the entire world, and why the American immigration restrictionist movement continues to lose, unlike its European counterparts which are making susbtantial progress.

If you try and preach that European culture is the only culture that is true to America then you only hurt our cause because it most certainly is not true.

I absolutely do maintain that America has an ethnocultural core, which is imperiled by unrestricted third world immigration, and that this ethnocultural core is worthy of preservation. That's what makes America, American. I believe this is also Pat Buchanan' and Sarkozy's position.

This is not the fight.

In this respect, you are correct. I'm absolutely not fighting for the notion that being an American means nothing more than having legal residence in the United States. Personally, I can't blame Hispanics (or anyone else) for their failure to "assimilate" to such a thin and meaningless national identity. No wonder they reject "conservatism."

Besides, before the Mexicans came - people used to fight between European cultures - Irish with Scot, Italians and the Slavs...etc etc. If you follow your history, these ethnic groups ended up being most heroic in two world wars..as many hispanic men & women fight for our country today. The difference of course is that they didn't discard the law and hop a fence continuously to the tune of 20 MILLION people.

And the fact that Mexico shares a common border with the United States, is the only nation in the world whose population has an historical claim on American territory, and that virtually all of the immigrants from Latin America share a common language - Spanish.

We have laws that control the flow of immigration and to keep track of who is here. Not only does uncontrolled immigration depreciate the wages in this country - but it's also a security risk in a volatile world that has extremist islam using terrorist tactics to commit mass death and destruction. There is a complete disconnect and frustration by the American people when our paid politicians and public officials REFUSE to follow the very laws in which they enact to protect us, because they were bought and paid for by some jerk who just wants to fatten his profits.

Yeah. The 9/11 terrorists came here - legally. They had their paperwork in order. If our immigration policy was based on ethnocultural principles, like the Japanese or South Korean system, there never would have been a 9/11 in the first place.

Originally Posted by Jrhino

Nobody I know is angerier than he is. He has put his name and reputaion on the line several times includeing running for office. He and other Mexican Americans fighting illegal immigration have my genuine respect.

The difference between "Mexican-Americans" and "African-Americans" on the one hand, and "European-Americans" on the other, is that the former are completely unabashed about identifying with their own ethnocultural group and pushing for public policies that advance their ethnocultural group's interests. Hispanics have MALDEF, LULAC, National Council of La Raza and so forth.

"European-Americans" seem to be capable of nothing more than thinking of themselves as atomized individuals and spouting platitudes about "law and order." Unsurprisingly, the "European-American" percentage of the American population is drastically shrinking, and other more assertive groups are displacing them. A century from now when European-Americans are a small minority in a Spanish-speaking, Brazilian-style North American Union, our descendents will slap themselves and wonder what the hell their ancestors were thinking. Oh yeah, they were conservatives!

Originally Posted by Daedalus

Originally Posted by VaMinuteMan

What alot people don't realize is that this is not a NATIVIST movement - it's a movement for order out of utter chaos. We don't wish to stop immigration, we only wish to halt ILLEGAL immigration and for our politicians to protect our borders. Welcome to ALIPAC Hispanic_Guy.

Yes. That's why your team keeps losing.

Speak your self

Our country has traded quality for profit. I have been checking for mortgage lenders and I will not deal with a lender who accepts the "matricular card." That should be the next list to compile, like the bank list.